The Kenney Government

jstubbs · #1 10-29-2019, 06:21 PM

Lots of threads on other levels of politics. Lets talk about the Kenny UCP government.

What do you think so far? What do you think of the released budget? Any policies or legislation you like or dislike?

mooseknuckle · #2 10-29-2019, 06:39 PM

Well he did finally get me to quit smoking with the price increase, honestly a disgusting habit so have no problem with the increase.

Bigwoodsman · #3 10-29-2019, 06:47 PM

What he’s done so far he’s s ok, with me including last weeks budget. What concerns me is I see him waffling with sparkle socks. Playing politics with a clown is never a good idea as far as I’m concerned. His 2 years to see results is WAAAAAYYYYY to long.
Cancel bill c69 and 48 in 90 days or we’re having a referendum to deal with separation. He needs to be aggressive in his approach and walk his talk.

BW

CaberTosser · #4 10-29-2019, 07:05 PM

They've been doing what they promised to, how refreshing.

Axed the provincial carbon tax: Check. Doing so then transferred it to the feds to institute on us later, but it also gives the feds all the voter resentment that accompanies it.

Sooner · #5 10-29-2019, 07:07 PM

So far so good, get that referendum going with in the year. Why wait. Capitalize on the anger

wind drift · #6 10-29-2019, 07:35 PM

Reducing the funding to technology innovation is a short-sighted strategic error that will set us back and hurt an important part of the Alberta Advantage. The oil sands were brought into production with this funding support. Makes no sense unless the immediate objective is to make falsely significant moves and then leverage enough favour to support a Federal PC leadership play.

Counting on revenue increases to really reduce the deficit is a dicey gamble.

The stronger strategy would be to reduce or eliminate transfer / equalization payments. But that’s real work. Easier to play with smoke and mirrors in your own playground.

PartTimeHunter · #7 11-09-2019, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

What he’s done so far he’s s ok, with me including last weeks budget. What concerns me is I see him waffling with sparkle socks. Playing politics with a clown is never a good idea as far as I’m concerned. His 2 years to see results is WAAAAAYYYYY to long.
Cancel bill c69 and 48 in 90 days or we’re having a referendum to deal with separation. He needs to be aggressive in his approach and walk his talk.

BW

Exactly!

teberle · #8 10-30-2019, 06:25 PM

What I think about this government is that it is terrible. The budget has literally nothing to offer anyone, other than the shareholders of corporations, many of whom don't even live here. The cuts to services are brutal and unnecessary, and the way they're dealing with the public sector workers is insulting beyond comprehension. And before anyone says "well we have to deal with the deficit, get our fiscal house in order, blah blah blah:" The deficit is 2.2 BILLION DOLLARS MORE than the last NPD one! And all this while actually increasing the taxes that regular people will pay, by separating the levels of taxation from inflation, and also by decreasing funding for municipalities, which will lead to major increases in property taxes. And yet many are saying they're doing a great job. Kenney is a scumbag shill for corporate interests, and it is plainly obvious. What will it take for people to see that? Maybe the massive sell-off of crown land that's coming will do it, but probably not.

1stLand · #9 10-30-2019, 06:43 PM

You can't keep spending more money than you are taking in. Plain and simple.
As deficits grow, you are paying more money in interest. Pretty soon as the deficit grows, taxes only end up paying the vig and not the principal.

Either taxes go up further to pay for the reckless spending or you make cuts. Plain and simple.

I find the people that dont understand this and dont care about government deficits are the ones who can't personally manage their finances and are living off credit themselves.

teberle · #10 10-30-2019, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1stLand

You can't keep spending more money than you are taking in. Plain and simple.
As deficits grow, you are paying more money in interest. Pretty soon as the deficit grows, taxes only end up paying the vig and not the principal.

Either taxes go up further to pay for the reckless spending or you make cuts. Plain and simple.

I find the people that dont understand this and dont care about government deficits are the ones who can't personally manage their finances and are living off credit themselves.

Is this a response to my post? If so, yes, I agree with you. So, if I may ask, what, for you, is the appeal of a budget which raises taxes for you personally, and ALSO makes the deficit bigger??

YYC338 · #11 10-30-2019, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teberle

What I think about this government is that it is terrible. The budget has literally nothing to offer anyone, other than the shareholders of corporations, many of whom don't even live here. The cuts to services are brutal and unnecessary, and the way they're dealing with the public sector workers is insulting beyond comprehension. And before anyone says "well we have to deal with the deficit, get our fiscal house in order, blah blah blah:" The deficit is 2.2 BILLION DOLLARS MORE than the last NPD one! And all this while actually increasing the taxes that regular people will pay, by separating the levels of taxation from inflation, and also by decreasing funding for municipalities, which will lead to major increases in property taxes. And yet many are saying they're doing a great job. Kenney is a scumbag shill for corporate interests, and it is plainly obvious. What will it take for people to see that? Maybe the massive sell-off of crown land that's coming will do it, but probably not.

Strong words, you must have a better way.
Your plan for fiscal responsibility and a return to balanced budgets would be?????

By the way, is the deficit higher because of reckless spending or declining revenues from the oil industry and an economy in general that's been in the toilet since the NDP (not NPD) took office?

fishnguy · #12 10-30-2019, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYC338

By the way, is the deficit higher because of reckless spending or declining revenues from the oil industry and an economy in general that's been in the toilet since the NDP (not NPD) took office?

This is unfair. And no, I didn’t vote NDP in or voted for Trudeau. Things started going downhill in the third or fourth quarter of 2013 and the **** hit the fan outright in 2014. Has nothing to do with NDP, nada. In my honest opinion, the economy would be in the toilet regardless of the party in power. And with due respect, to state otherwise is either silly or simply dishonest. Furthermore, looking at the budget that was recently released, we would be much deeper down the drain had this government taken office then. The latter part is speculation on my part, yes, but it is an educated one.

What do I think of the current government? I am disappointed. Looks like there are some blind cuts being made without any consideration for the future. I think uninspired, dull (as in not at all inspirational), and very shortsighted people are running the show. I haven’t seen or heard anything about looking into the future. First half of post 6 and what jstubbs said in post 8 are on point.

Also, do we have a shortage of people with trade skills in this province? Why would we spend millions on trades training and cut infrastructure projects that provide jobs for these very people at the same time? Kind of boggles my mind. While we are at it, we are going to increase the cost of secondary and post secondary schooling. I read in one of the threads a few days ago that people with IT skills are in demand. Anyway...

Cutting wages of public workers is also not very far fetching. I don’t work in public sector. However, my wife and my sister do. My wife is a mental health therapist for child and youth. Except for this past Monday, I don’t remember the last time she came back home on time. No, she is not cheating on me, lol. She doesn’t get paid for the extra hours she spends at work. Add to this the **** she has to deal with on daily basis, she is definitely not overpaid. My sister is a nurse practitioner working at least (and “at least” is highlighted in a very very bright colour) 10 hours a day while getting paid for only 8 of those hours (maybe 7.5 but I am not sure). They both spent at least 6-7 years of their lives in school after high school. My wife was working for two or three years two part time jobs that paid $18 to $20 per hour after she was done with her schooling (the latter is a stretch because she still pays significant amount of money out of our pocket every year to further develop her skills in order to be most beneficial to her clientele). And I’ll tell you, stuff she has to deal with... Anyway, I feel like this belongs in the other thread about cutting public sector wages.

As for the cut, cut, cut, well. There are expenses and there are investments. It appears that the current government is indiscriminate between the two.

I will also say that everyone seems to conveniently avoid the little diagram posted by Flatlandliver, which is this:

Lastly, to answer RandyBoBandy‘s question, I will quote myself from the other thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishnguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteTailAB

Hey maybe now some provincial employees will feel the pain that the private guys do.

Isn't it like every 1% or 2% public sector raise equals 270,000,000 bucks that tax payers have to pick up.

Suck it up, tough times for all.

Lol.

CBC: Why Alberta's corporate tax cut might not keep investment at home

Quote:

A prime example is Husky Energy, which saw a $233-million benefit from the Alberta tax cut in its second-quarter results.

That’s just before letting hundreds of people go. But yes, take it from the public workers, education, health care, infrastructure, etc and give it to Husky, et al. There went your “suck it up”. That’s just one company and that’s just the second quarter results. 1-2% cut to public sector paid almost entirely for it (that’s your number, I don’t actually know how much 1-2% of public sector is). Either way, that’s $230 mil taxpayers have to pick up. But this one is ok, right, because it bring all the jobs.

CBC: 'It's the smart thing to do': Canadian oil driller moves all its rigs to the U.S.

Quote:

The best pieces of equipment seem to be the first to leave Canada.

"Those are the best drilling technology in the world," Mark Scholz, president of the Canadian Association of Oilwell Drilling Contractors, said of the newer rigs.

"Those rigs are gone. I don't anticipate they will come back."

The modern rigs can cost more than $25 million and the financial returns in Western Canada aren't high enough, he said.

There are many reasons why drillers are moving rigs to the U.S., said Scholz, including the exchange rate of the U.S. dollar, which is about 30 per cent higher than the loonie. The day rates for drilling rigs are also about 30 per cent better in the U.S.

Crews can work year-round in the southern U.S. and the regulatory environment is less burdensome, he said.

In 2014, before the oil price crash, there were about 900 drilling rigs in Western Canada. Now, there are about 550. Since only about half of those are currently active, Scholz expects more of them will be sent to the U.S.

As the best equipment leaves the country, the Canadian oilpatch could become less efficient, said Hoffarth, since "It takes longer to drill those wells now because you're doing it with a tier-two or tier-three rig."

Citadel Drilling still has a shop and equipment yard in Nisku, just south of Edmonton, although the property is largely empty.

The company may leave Alberta altogether, but at least for now, Hoffarth said he will keep its headquarters in Calgary.

"At this point, yes."

Yep.

YYC338 · #13 10-31-2019, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishnguy

This is unfair. And no, I didn’t vote NDP in or voted for Trudeau. Things started going downhill in the third or fourth quarter of 2013 and the **** hit the fan outright in 2014. Has nothing to do with NDP, nada. In my honest opinion, the economy would be in the toilet regardless of the party in power. And with due respect, to state otherwise is either silly or simply dishonest. Furthermore, looking at the budget that was recently released, we would be much deeper down the drain had this government taken office then. The latter part is speculation on my part, yes, but it is an educated one.

Yes, oil prices started to decline in 2014, layoffs in Alberta's oil industry peaked in 2015 & 2016. People out of work don't pay much in income tax and combined with declining oil royalties, government revenues were in serious decline.

The sensible thing to do for the government of the day in 2015 & 16 would be to recognize this and control spending. What did the government of the day due instead? Well they continued to spend like drunken sailors and made a bad problem much worse by their irresponsible fiscal control.

To say the provinces problems had nothing (nada in your words ) to do with the NDP is false. While they couldn't be responsible for the downturn in the oil industry and declining revenue, they had total control of the other side of the balance sheet, expenses and spending.

Studies have shown that if the NDP government had exercised prudent fiscal control and stayed the course of their 2015 budget with respect to spending the provinces financial picture would look much different today.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/stud...t-still-so-big

They didn't and that's one of the main reasons they were a one term government.

Again, I'll ask the same question I asked earlier in this thread. How long is it reasonable to accept government spending that exceeds their revenue, regardless of the party in power?

Every single government that has brought forward a deficit budget has said the same thing you said. Were not spending, we're investing in the provinces future.

I've got news for you. Repeated continuous spending beyond your means is not investing in the future, it's mortgaging it. Both your future and for the generations that follow. It doesn't take a crystal ball to see the obvious.

Show me one provincial or federal government in the history of this country that's successfully been able to spend it's way into fiscal prosperity from a similarly dire deficit and debt situation this province is in.

In the words of Ralf Klein, "It's the spending stupid".

teberle · #14 10-31-2019, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYC338

The sensible thing to do for the government of the day in 2015 & 16 would be to recognize this and control spending. What did the government of the day due instead? Well they continued to spend like drunken sailors and made a bad problem much worse by their irresponsible fiscal control.

Again, I'll ask the same question I asked earlier in this thread. How long is it reasonable to accept government spending that exceeds their revenue, regardless of the party in power?

Actually, what you describe would have been the exact opposite of the sensible thing to do. There is a time for deficit spending, and that time is during an economic recession. And that's not me talking, that's the conventional wisdom among mainstream economists. The last thing you want to do during bad economic times is cut spending, since government spending is an economic stimulus, and cuts have the opposite effect.

As for your question, I would answer it with my previous paragraph. It is reasonable to expect a government to spend more than it takes in for as long as it takes to complete an economic recovery, within certain debt-to-gdp ratio limits, and we are well within those. This assumes, of course, that during fat times, a corresponding surplus is run, and, as we can see in flatlandliver's graph, the PC government failed to do this in the years preceding the crash when oil was very high.

The UCP obsession with balancing the budget was never grounded in any sound economic theory. It was always a political play to win votes, and to justify the measures they'll be taking as part of a long-term plan to dismantle government on behalf of corporations.

HyperMOA · #15 10-31-2019, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishnguy

This is unfair. And no, I didn’t vote NDP in or voted for Trudeau. Things started going downhill in the third or fourth quarter of 2013 and the **** hit the fan outright in 2014. Has nothing to do with NDP, nada. In my honest opinion, the economy would be in the toilet regardless of the party in power. And with due respect, to state otherwise is either silly or simply dishonest. Furthermore, looking at the budget that was recently released, we would be much deeper down the drain had this government taken office then. The latter part is speculation on my part, yes, but it is an educated one

I would agree with you had Sask not seen a little boom in the same terrible oil market. That is because of the Notley taxes and carbon taxes; we saw billions and billions of dollars and CAPex walk out of Alberta right into Sask. Things weren’t great, but they definitely got worse because of the NDP. (I speak from within the O&G sector and its suppliers) All of those projects are what directly and indirectly fund all of the things within the budget that were cut. Notley cut jobs and investment in AB, Kenny had to reign in the spending.

If you make $1,000,000 a year you can eat lobster every night. If you lose said job and end up working at MAC’s on minimum wage you might have to forego a lobster or two. Have yourself some ichiban noodles. Well, it’s time Albertans get used to a few feeds of ichiban.

Smoky buck · #16 10-30-2019, 06:59 PM

With the present state of Alberta’s economy and the fact it’s going to be an up hill battle to get things accomplished with the results ofThe Federal election it’s not going to be an easy task to be Alberta’s premier.

What do you do rack up debt and hope things improve before debt gets out of control. Or do cut back spending and expenses while you search for a light at the end of the tunnel? Either choice as a premier you will **** off part of the population

Too early to judge how successful Kenny will be bad premier but I can see why he is taking the steps he has

teberle · #17 10-30-2019, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

With the present state of Alberta’s economy and the fact it’s going to be an up hill battle to get things accomplished with the results ofThe Federal election it’s not going to be an easy task to be Alberta’s premier.

What do you do rack up debt and hope things improve before debt gets out of control. Or do cut back spending and expenses while you search for a light at the end of the tunnel? Either choice as a premier you will **** off part of the population

Too early to judge how successful Kenny will be bad premier but I can see why he is taking the steps he has

AGAIN: He's racking up debt faster than the previous government. Please explain to me how this is supposed to be an improvement.

AndrewM · #18 10-30-2019, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teberle

AGAIN: He's racking up debt faster than the previous government. Please explain to me how this is supposed to be an improvement.

He just came out with his budget! Can’t count the NDP debt as his.

teberle · #19 10-30-2019, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewM

He just came out with his budget! Can’t count the NDP debt as his.

Yes, that's correct. He just came out with his budget, and it includes a projected deficit of 8.7 billion dollars for the fiscal year ending March 31st, whereas the NDP's 2018-19 deficit was 6.7 billion. What is so difficult about this?

Flatlandliver · #20 10-30-2019, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewM

He just came out with his budget! Can’t count the NDP debt as his.

And you couldn’t count the PC debt as the NDP’s then?

Smoky buck · #21 10-30-2019, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teberle

AGAIN: He's racking up debt faster than the previous government. Please explain to me how this is supposed to be an improvement.

Last line in my posts says it “Too early to make judgment”

teberle · #22 10-30-2019, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Last line in my posts says it “Too early to make judgment”

Would you have given the NDP the same benefit of the doubt under similar circumstances?

YYC338 · #23 10-30-2019, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teberle

AGAIN: He's racking up debt faster than the previous government. Please explain to me how this is supposed to be an improvement.

The budget deficit increase of which you speak is for the current fiscal year. In other words it reflects much of the handy work of the previous government.

The current government hadn't tabled a budget until just recently and in it they project a deficit of $5.9B for next year which is lower than the great NDP's performance of $6.7B in 2018.

The current governments policies reflected in their recent budget have yet to really come into effect.

Blaming the current government for the current fiscal year performance is playing fast and loose with the facts at best, and could be considered outright dishonest by those who really understand what's going on in this province.

What budget and program spending was Alberta operating under this year until the budget was introduced this month. I'll give you three guesses. Never mind I'll make the 3 guesses for you.
1.N, 2.D, 3.P.

liar · #24 11-10-2019, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstubbs

Lots of threads on other levels of politics. Lets talk about the Kenny UCP government.

What do you think so far? What do you think of the released budget? Any policies or legislation you like or dislike?

since he took power , Houston oil and gas , trident exploration ,many smaller oil and gas service companies and drilling companies have closed their doors . belatrix filed for ccaa , encana is getting out of ab , husky cut some 600 jobs , all in 6 months .
what do i think so far? epic fail .
like JT , kenney is a career politician who seems out of touch with reality , he was shrouded in controversy before he even took office . i think brian jean would of been a better choice .

amosfella · #25 11-10-2019, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liar

since he took power , Houston oil and gas , trident exploration ,many smaller oil and gas service companies and drilling companies have closed their doors . belatrix filed for ccaa , encana is getting out of ab , husky cut some 600 jobs , all in 6 months .
what do i think so far? epic fail .
like JT , kenney is a career politician who seems out of touch with reality , he was shrouded in controversy before he even took office . i think brian jean would of been a better choice .

I think that has more to do with the Turd, and the Turd not being flushed, then with Kenney.

thumper · #26 11-10-2019, 10:04 AM

Steady as she goes Kenny. I'm glad you're at the helm.

liar · #27 11-10-2019, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amosfella

I think that has more to do with the Turd, and the Turd not being flushed, then with Kenney.

Your absolutely correct . But he quit his job as an mp torun for premiere , he knew the state of affairs in ab, he knows what jt is all about , he took the job as a leader with full pay not as a apprentice in learning mode . He should of hit the ground running , now he’s going to appoint a panel to see what we want . Really?? Shouldn’t he and the other mps already be in touch with the people who just hired them ?

fishnguy · #28 11-29-2019, 01:33 PM

At least 750 front line RNs and RPNs to be laid off, Alberta Health Services tells UNA

Because who needs them. Let’s run efficiencies.

HVA7mm · #29 11-29-2019, 01:46 PM

[QUOTE=fishnguy;4064650] At least 750 front line RNs and RPNs to be laid off, Alberta Health Services tells UNA

Because who needs them. Let’s run efficiencies.[/

Looks to be 500 over the next 3 years with attrition being offered first, up until the end of March 2020 (according to the PDF letter in the link provided). Would way sooner see the fat sliced off of the bulging AHS management.

lmtada · #30 11-10-2019, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liar

since he took power , Houston oil and gas , trident exploration ,many smaller oil and gas service companies and drilling companies have closed their doors . belatrix filed for ccaa , encana is getting out of ab , husky cut some 600 jobs , all in 6 months .
what do i think so far? epic fail .
like JT , kenney is a career politician who seems out of touch with reality , he was shrouded in controversy before he even took office . i think brian jean would of been a better choice .

Get off this forum.

. Go to your doghouse for some SLAPS 👋.