james river

[haggard]

Anyone drove over the bridge? How's the water looking?

[nbbarnes]

Originally Posted by haggard

Anyone drove over the bridge? How's the water looking?

I drove past about a week and a half ago and it was still a bit high and dirty. I'm sure it's good now. I have never fished it before so I can't help there.

[Jadham]

Usually by mid afternoon it gets dirty from the ATVers. Midweek mornings are usually ok.

Yes I am somewhat bitter about it.

[smitty9]

Originally Posted by Jadham

Usually by mid afternoon it gets dirty from the ATVers. Midweek mornings are usually ok.

Yes I am somewhat bitter about it.

James river has had a reputation of being a low productivity stream for years.

Regardless, I'm on your side on this, if quadding is doing the damaging, my question is, is there any evidence of that? Is there a way you could prove it?

Because if you could provide evidence, those ar$#$oles -my understanding anyways - could be charged under Federal fisheries law with destruction of fisheries habitat.

Was curious,
Smitty

[fisho_badyk]

Been out there a couple times this week, had a hard time getting away from finding footprints/atv tracks. Bushwhacking pays off on the James, though.

[fisho_badyk]

Originally Posted by smitty9

James river has had a reputation of being a low productivity stream for years.

Regardless, I'm on your side on this, if quadding is doing the damaging, my question is, is there any evidence of that? Is there a way you could prove it?

Because if you could provide evidence, those ar$#$oles -my understanding anyways - could be charged under Federal fisheries law with destruction of fisheries habitat.

Was curious,
Smitty

I fished the same length of river two days in a row, and had new ATV (and not quads, they were too wide) tracks on the second day at a certain stretch. Not sure what to think of it, because I was there almost until dark the night before, and back again by 11am the next day.

And as a previous post exclaimed, hell yeah I'm bitter about it as well.

[haggard]

Yeah it's a shame people have no respect for the delicate spawning habitat that exists in many of Albertas rivers and lakes. At least in bc it's a $2000-$4000 fine for knowingly destroying salmon habitat and the hotline has a reward for reporting offenders

[haggard]

heading there friday for 4 days, any good news?

[Jadham]

Originally Posted by smitty9

James river has had a reputation of being a low productivity stream for years.

Regardless, I'm on your side on this, if quadding is doing the damaging, my question is, is there any evidence of that? Is there a way you could prove it?

Because if you could provide evidence, those ar$#$oles -my understanding anyways - could be charged under Federal fisheries law with destruction of fisheries habitat.

Was curious,
Smitty

Seen them firsthand multiple times but haven't been there for 3 years since. But I have also seen them "play" in the side channels of the Clearwater so I don't think it is isolated to the James.

[Gman357]

I was out at the James yesterday afternoon. Nothing of size but plenty of feisty browns, bull & whites hit the copper johns!

[spinN'flyfish]

had there been oil there before, the limits are at 0, usually five whites?

[Jcpenny]

Ive been fishing and quading since 5 yrs old and Quading is not doing damage..... Quads dont run deep holes.. (what is doing the damage is the flooding and the channels they built to reduce the flood) (alot are getting trapped and then drying up)

I was at the james all last week and it has always been a poor fishery, i got 2 browns in 2 days maybe fishing 3 hours a day

Just remember there is no other trout in red deer river tribs then browns and the odd bull untill you get into the banf boundrys then you get cuttys

Alot of people are a fan of the lil red deer river (the only good river that feeds the red deer river) but alot of poaching everywhere you access you will find empty minnow containers

And yes oil spill in 2012 my cottage was semi effected near the redderr and james junction so all of the red deer is catch and release...

Best numbers on the red are from sundre up the 22 all the way to the dam this lil one was cought about 2k east of where the james and red meet up and i only fished 15 mins was to busy quading the mud lol

[smitty9]

[QUOTE=Jcpenny;2573670]Ive been fishing and quading since 5 yrs old and Quading is not doing damage..... Quads dont run deep holes.. (what is doing the damage is the flooding and the channels they built to reduce the flood) (alot are getting trapped and then drying up)/QUOTE]


If...just if, for the moment, the allegations are true and quads do run up and down the river, then what you said is absolutely wrong.

The premise is 100% faulty; quads aren't in the deep holes, therefore no damage is done??

Actually, quads don't need to be ripping through "deep holes" to do extensive damage, Plenty of damage can be done to plant and insect life - the fishes food base, in other words - by tearing up the riffly shallow areas. Not to mention critical spawning areas with clean gravel.

Let's not kidd ourselves; if the quads are in the river, they're doing damage. It's that simple. Regardless of the flood mitigation, regardless of whether the stream was naturally unproductive to begin with.

Smitty

[WhitefishLady]

Ive been fishing and quading since 5 yrs old and Quading is not doing damage..... Quads dont run deep holes.. (what is doing the damage is the flooding and the channels they built to reduce the flood) (alot are getting trapped and then drying up)

As a fish/aquatic biologist I have to speak up here. Not trying to be argumentive just informative because it is something I am passionate about

ATVing in and around creeks is damaging for the following reasons even if they don't nessesarily make big holes:

-destroys riparian vegetation which provides shade and cover for fish and acts as a buffer for the stream against runoff

-causes sedimentation into the creek (i.e., makes it dirty) which causes fish to have a harder time breathing, feeding, avoiding predators etc. Trout are adapted to dirtier water conditons in the spring/when it rains but not all the time.

-causes damage to the banks which are often unstable to begin with, over time with many ATVs can cause the bank to collapse

-any fluid, oil, fuel, etc from ATVs would be polluting the creek

-damages spawning substrate which trout need to make their nests and may actually kill eggs/fry

-likely kills the insects that trout eat when they get ran over

And as smitty was saying, you can now be charged under the Federal Fisheries Act.

In my experience, and there are certianly exceptions and responsible ATVers, some ATVers have little respect for the creeks and the environment in general. Not saying you don't at all. I have heard from other biologists about bridges being placed for ATVers and they instead choose to ford the creek anyways right beside the bridge. Also all too often I've seen them drive along the creek ripping up the bed and using the water to wash their ATV! Responsible ATVer's, if they must cross the creek, will do so over relatively hard rock substrates, steady throttle and stable banks and cross perpendicularly.

So if you add this in with flooding, flood mitigation, oil and gas development, mining, forestry, cattle, etc its bad news for the trout!

For fishing the James, I only have once but it was dirty and I didn't catch anything. Will try again someday.

[Lornce]

Originally Posted by WhitefishLady

As a fish/aquatic biologist I have to speak up here. Not trying to be argumentive just informative because it is something I am passionate about

ATVing in and around creeks is damaging for the following reasons even if they don't nessesarily make big holes:

-destroys riparian vegetation which provides shade and cover for fish and acts as a buffer for the stream against runoff

-causes sedimentation into the creek (i.e., makes it dirty) which causes fish to have a harder time breathing, feeding, avoiding predators etc. Trout are adapted to dirtier water conditons in the spring/when it rains but not all the time.

-causes damage to the banks which are often unstable to begin with, over time with many ATVs can cause the bank to collapse

-any fluid, oil, fuel, etc from ATVs would be polluting the creek

-damages spawning substrate which trout need to make their nests and may actually kill eggs/fry

-likely kills the insects that trout eat when they get ran over

And as smitty was saying, you can now be charged under the Federal Fisheries Act.

In my experience, and there are certianly exceptions and responsible ATVers, some ATVers have little respect for the creeks and the environment in general. Not saying you don't at all. I have heard from other biologists about bridges being placed for ATVers and they instead choose to ford the creek anyways right beside the bridge. Also all too often I've seen them drive along the creek ripping up the bed and using the water to wash their ATV! Responsible ATVer's, if they must cross the creek, will do so over relatively hard rock substrates, steady throttle and stable banks and cross perpendicularly.

So if you add this in with flooding, flood mitigation, oil and gas development, mining, forestry, cattle, etc its bad news for the trout!

For fishing the James, I only have once but it was dirty and I didn't catch anything. Will try again someday.

Excellent post

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by WhitefishLady

As a fish/aquatic biologist I have to speak up here. Not trying to be argumentive just informative because it is something I am passionate about

ATVing in and around creeks is damaging for the following reasons even if they don't nessesarily make big holes:

-destroys riparian vegetation which provides shade and cover for fish and acts as a buffer for the stream against runoff

-causes sedimentation into the creek (i.e., makes it dirty) which causes fish to have a harder time breathing, feeding, avoiding predators etc. Trout are adapted to dirtier water conditons in the spring/when it rains but not all the time.

-causes damage to the banks which are often unstable to begin with, over time with many ATVs can cause the bank to collapse

-any fluid, oil, fuel, etc from ATVs would be polluting the creek

-damages spawning substrate which trout need to make their nests and may actually kill eggs/fry

-likely kills the insects that trout eat when they get ran over

And as smitty was saying, you can now be charged under the Federal Fisheries Act.

In my experience, and there are certianly exceptions and responsible ATVers, some ATVers have little respect for the creeks and the environment in general. Not saying you don't at all. I have heard from other biologists about bridges being placed for ATVers and they instead choose to ford the creek anyways right beside the bridge. Also all too often I've seen them drive along the creek ripping up the bed and using the water to wash their ATV! Responsible ATVer's, if they must cross the creek, will do so over relatively hard rock substrates, steady throttle and stable banks and cross perpendicularly.

So if you add this in with flooding, flood mitigation, oil and gas development, mining, forestry, cattle, etc its bad news for the trout!

For fishing the James, I only have once but it was dirty and I didn't catch anything. Will try again someday.

Welcome to Alberta Whitefish Lady.

The Quad and Argo people in Alberta are destroying themselves like they have in B.C.

One day, and it will be soon, there will be no fish in those aquatic highways for quaders and Argo people.

It is time to herd these donkeys onto only approved paths. You go off the path. The path is closed. Just like handling a grade four class and that is about how smart of good part of these quadders are.

The sooner we have the $1000.00 fines you see in B.C. the sooner the streams will have better fishing. And this has been proven to work in B.C.

Since this is Alberta a little "Reward" for pictures and licence plates might help.

With all these fancy I phones with cameras we could get a lot of these losers.

[Chief16]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Welcome to Alberta Whitefish Lady.

The Quad and Argo people in Alberta are destroying themselves like they have in B.C.

One day, and it will be soon, there will be no fish in those aquatic highways for quaders and Argo people.

It is time to herd these donkeys onto only approved paths. You go off the path. The path is closed. Just like handling a grade four class and that is about how smart of good part of these quadders are.

The sooner we have the $1000.00 fines you see in B.C. the sooner the streams will have better fishing. And this has been proven to work in B.C.

Since this is Alberta a little "Reward" for pictures and licence plates might help.

With all these fancy I phones with cameras we could get a lot of these losers.

Why would you jump so quickly to call them loser? It may simply be a lack of knowledge for many. You can't blame people for not having knowledge magically appear in their heads. This forum can be so judgemental sometimes it drives me nuts.

[greylynx]

Sorry Chief.

I was getting uppity at what I was seeing just outside Willmore last week.

I just wanted to rant.

Sorry folks. I should go bite my tires elsewhere.

[spinN'flyfish]

Originally Posted by WhitefishLady

As a fish/aquatic biologist I have to speak up here. Not trying to be argumentive just informative because it is something I am passionate about

ATVing in and around creeks is damaging for the following reasons even if they don't nessesarily make big holes:

-destroys riparian vegetation which provides shade and cover for fish and acts as a buffer for the stream against runoff

-causes sedimentation into the creek (i.e., makes it dirty) which causes fish to have a harder time breathing, feeding, avoiding predators etc. Trout are adapted to dirtier water conditons in the spring/when it rains but not all the time.

-causes damage to the banks which are often unstable to begin with, over time with many ATVs can cause the bank to collapse

-any fluid, oil, fuel, etc from ATVs would be polluting the creek

-damages spawning substrate which trout need to make their nests and may actually kill eggs/fry

-likely kills the insects that trout eat when they get ran over

And as smitty was saying, you can now be charged under the Federal Fisheries Act.

In my experience, and there are certianly exceptions and responsible ATVers, some ATVers have little respect for the creeks and the environment in general. Not saying you don't at all. I have heard from other biologists about bridges being placed for ATVers and they instead choose to ford the creek anyways right beside the bridge. Also all too often I've seen them drive along the creek ripping up the bed and using the water to wash their ATV! Responsible ATVer's, if they must cross the creek, will do so over relatively hard rock substrates, steady throttle and stable banks and cross perpendicularly.

So if you add this in with flooding, flood mitigation, oil and gas development, mining, forestry, cattle, etc its bad news for the trout!

For fishing the James, I only have once but it was dirty and I didn't catch anything. Will try again someday.

awesome post

[Reinchampion]

Originally Posted by WhitefishLady

As a fish/aquatic biologist I have to speak up here. Not trying to be argumentive just informative because it is something I am passionate about

ATVing in and around creeks is damaging for the following reasons even if they don't nessesarily make big holes:

-destroys riparian vegetation which provides shade and cover for fish and acts as a buffer for the stream against runoff

-causes sedimentation into the creek (i.e., makes it dirty) which causes fish to have a harder time breathing, feeding, avoiding predators etc. Trout are adapted to dirtier water conditons in the spring/when it rains but not all the time.

-causes damage to the banks which are often unstable to begin with, over time with many ATVs can cause the bank to collapse

-any fluid, oil, fuel, etc from ATVs would be polluting the creek

-damages spawning substrate which trout need to make their nests and may actually kill eggs/fry

-likely kills the insects that trout eat when they get ran over

And as smitty was saying, you can now be charged under the Federal Fisheries Act.

In my experience, and there are certianly exceptions and responsible ATVers, some ATVers have little respect for the creeks and the environment in general. Not saying you don't at all. I have heard from other biologists about bridges being placed for ATVers and they instead choose to ford the creek anyways right beside the bridge. Also all too often I've seen them drive along the creek ripping up the bed and using the water to wash their ATV! Responsible ATVer's, if they must cross the creek, will do so over relatively hard rock substrates, steady throttle and stable banks and cross perpendicularly.

So if you add this in with flooding, flood mitigation, oil and gas development, mining, forestry, cattle, etc its bad news for the trout!

For fishing the James, I only have once but it was dirty and I didn't catch anything. Will try again someday.

Very good post! Thank you for taking this to a factual, scientific level.

[BigSky]

Originally Posted by Chief16

Why would you jump so quickly to call them loser? It may simply be a lack of knowledge for many. You can't blame people for not having knowledge magically appear in their heads. This forum can be so judgemental sometimes it drives me nuts.

So the trout should pay the price because people don't educate themselves? Whatever happened to personal responsibility? I bet $1000 fines would magically make that knowledge appear in their heads haha.

Can they read signs? Can they use common sense? Can they possess even a basic level of knowledge of the environment? If not, they are losers IMO

I have friends who are quadders and they act responsibly. They are sick of turds ruining the reputation of all quadders.

[Chief16]

Originally Posted by BigSky

So the trout should pay the price because people don't educate themselves? Whatever happened to personal responsibility? I bet $1000 fines would magically make that knowledge appear in their heads haha.

Can they read signs? Can they use common sense? Can they possess even a basic level of knowledge of the environment? If not, they are losers IMO

I have friends who are quadders and they act responsibly. They are sick of turds ruining the reputation of all quadders.

$1000 in fines is still proving my point. If they go in the river and receive the fine, they will be educated after the fine, not before. Can they possess a basic level of environmental knowledge? No actually, they cannot unless they have been taught. 1+1 is pretty common sense, but it wasn't before you were taught it at a very young age. Yes, I know there are some people just don't care but some legitimately do not have the needed knowledge. Grouping everyone in a category is a logical fallacy by grouping all people under a stereotype. I am positive not every single trail a quad can go on is marked with signs. I can think of one of our most popular southern cut streams that has no signs on it yet there is a campground right beside the river. Education is the key in furthering environmental conservation, not calling people losers on a forum.

[BigSky]

Originally Posted by Chief16

$1000 in fines is still proving my point. If they go in the river and receive the fine, they will be educated after the fine, not before. Can they possess a basic level of environmental knowledge? No actually, they cannot unless they have been taught. 1+1 is pretty common sense, but it wasn't before you were taught it at a very young age. Yes, I know there are some people just don't care but some legitimately do not have the needed knowledge. Grouping everyone in a category is a logical fallacy by grouping all people under a stereotype. I am positive not every single trail a quad can go on is marked with signs. I can think of one of our most popular southern cut streams that has no signs on it yet there is a campground right beside the river. Education is the key in furthering environmental conservation, not calling people losers on a forum.

Education is the key, I agree. My point is that some people can't be bothered, or choose to ignore the information available to them because it conflicts with their idea of recreation. Guys who rip through creeks know bloody well they shouldn't be doing it.

The point with the fines is that if there would be some incentive for people to learn the rules. Also, if they get a huge fine they'll be less likely to do it again. Word spreads. Poachers who don't read the regs and claim "I didn't know" are just as bad and deserve big fines as well.

I say fine the **** out of them. Enforcement is the governments responsibility, education is your own.

[pikergolf]

Make them get plates, and pay enough for tips and photo's to make it worthwhile to turn them in. Then make fines large enough to pay for the program, it would straighten out in a few short years.

Get so tired of I didn't know better, must be the most tired line in a court of law.