Province’s oil curtailments means layoffs

[lastlatvian]

Our carbon tax is the best in the countryi in terms of business option(s) it allows way more freedoms into taxing via the credit system (other provinces us it as a example). Our taxing outside of the carbon tax on oil is the same as the king ralph days and should actually be higher. If we had a progressive tax rate like most socialist countries i.e. norway or sweden -- we would have a rainy day fund and not be in this mess.

Instead we have decades of greedy conservative governments that didn't prepare for this, they squandered the money giving everyone a few bucks, and business kick backs. We are lucky we didn't become a new venezuela, a country with more oil and better quality oil. Alberta on the other hand has crap oil, for the most part that requires solvents just to get it to pump through a pipeline.

If we didn't put a curtailment we would not only have lower prices given to the US for pennies on the dollar, the same lay offs and more collapsing companies...

Everyone who thinks the conservatives could do a better job should remember the last time they literally blamed us.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

100% agree. Only reason for the total production to be lifted today is to avert layoffs. Layoffs aren’t good with an election in a couple months! Notley only cares about being re-elected. Don’t let anyone fool themselves!

Give me the name of a politician that doesn’t care about being re-elected or elected for that matter.

BW

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by lastlatvian

Our carbon tax is the best in the countryi in terms of business option(s) it allows way more freedoms into taxing via the credit system (other provinces us it as a example). Our taxing outside of the carbon tax on oil is the same as the king ralph days and should actually be higher. If we had a progressive tax rate like most socialist countries i.e. norway or sweden -- we would have a rainy day fund and not be in this mess.

Instead we have decades of greedy conservative governments that didn't prepare for this, they squandered the money giving everyone a few bucks, and business kick backs. We are lucky we didn't become a new venezuela, a country with more oil and better quality oil. Alberta on the other hand has crap oil, for the most part that requires solvents just to get it to pump through a pipeline.

If we didn't put a curtailment we would not only have lower prices given to the US for pennies on the dollar, the same lay offs and more collapsing companies...

Everyone who thinks the conservatives could do a better job should remember the last time they literally blamed us.

Best carbon tax for business as it’s the consumers paying for it!

[AndrewM]

Just for the record Venezuela is quite heavy as well. Definitely not light oil. Venezuela is a great example of how debt can destroy a country. Also a great example of how socialism/communism can destroy a country. Probably should pick anther country to compare Alberta to!

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Best carbon tax for business as it’s the consumers paying for it!

Yep.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by lastlatvian

Our carbon tax is the best in the countryi in terms of business option(s) it allows way more freedoms into taxing via the credit system (other provinces us it as a example). Our taxing outside of the carbon tax on oil is the same as the king ralph days and should actually be higher. If we had a progressive tax rate like most socialist countries i.e. norway or sweden -- we would have a rainy day fund and not be in this mess.

Instead we have decades of greedy conservative governments that didn't prepare for this, they squandered the money giving everyone a few bucks, and business kick backs. We are lucky we didn't become a new venezuela, a country with more oil and better quality oil. Alberta on the other hand has crap oil, for the most part that requires solvents just to get it to pump through a pipeline.

If we didn't put a curtailment we would not only have lower prices given to the US for pennies on the dollar, the same lay offs and more collapsing companies...

Everyone who thinks the conservatives could do a better job should remember the last time they literally blamed us.

I am glad uninstalling Notley is 85% complete.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Lets examine the facts. CNRL selling 100,000 bbls per day at $12 equals $1.2 million/day revenue.. Now selling 90,000 bbls/day at $44/bbl only $3.96 million per day. Boy sure hurting and need to lay off a few employees to make ends meet.

[Smoky buck]

It’s not a matter of hurting for $ it’s a matter of those employees are no longer needed because CNRL does not need to push the same production

Cutting production always equals a cut back in the number of employees needed. Companies are not going to pay people to just sit around

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Lets examine the facts. CNRL selling 100,000 bbls per day at $12 equals $1.2 million/day revenue.. Now selling 90,000 bbls/day at $44/bbl only $3.96 million per day. Boy sure hurting and need to lay off a few employees to make ends meet.

But the profits increase if they lay off the workers that no longer have a job description, due to some equipment being shut down. They don't operate to provide employment, they operate to provide a return to the shareholders. They will not lay off trained workers if they think that this is a short term issue, but there is no long term solution available without a pipeline. The companies are not going to pay workers that they don't need long term.

[AndrewM]

Revenue doesn’t equal profit. Deduct operating costs, deduct transportation costs, deduct G&A, deduct capital costs.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Revenue doesn’t equal profit. Deduct operating costs, deduct transportation costs, deduct G&A, deduct capital costs.

And if you have been selling at a loss to keep operating for a short time, you do everything that you can to make more profits to try and compensate for the loss. That is what the shareholders expect, so that is what you do.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Lets examine the facts. CNRL selling 100,000 bbls per day at $12 equals $1.2 million/day revenue.. Now selling 90,000 bbls/day at $44/bbl only $3.96 million per day. Boy sure hurting and need to lay off a few employees to make ends meet.

We have a lot of socialists on this site.

The issue isnt entirely a O&G slow down. Its our governments laxkmlm of ability to hwlp find and grow other industries in Alberta to help correct the shortfall.

The two industries that they currently help? Government (taxpayer funded) and basic retail (minimum wage increases). Both of which are sustained by a quiclly shrinking middle class.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by rem338win

We have a lot of socialists on this site.

The issue isnt entirely a O&G slow down. Its our governments laxkmlm of ability to hwlp find and grow other industries in Alberta to help correct the shortfall.

The two industries that they currently help? Government (taxpayer funded) and basic retail (minimum wage increases). Both of which are sustained by a quiclly shrinking middle class.

Exactly. We like to tax the rich to feed the poor rather than getting the poor better jobs so they don't need to be fed.

[Deer Hunter]

Any non-resource based economy in the world envies the Alberta oil and gas potential.
Clean responsible energy development promises jobs, tax and royalty revenue. It's a shame that this country, province and society manages it so poorly to the point of its demise.

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/ran...eserves_share/

[HeavyD111]

Friend took a one month unpaid holiday because there is no work for him at the moment. He fracks and this is the first time that he has not worked at something since he was 16. The hammer continues to fall depending on what industry you are in it looks like.

[Jim Blake]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Lets examine the facts. CNRL selling 100,000 bbls per day at $12 equals $1.2 million/day revenue.. Now selling 90,000 bbls/day at $44/bbl only $3.96 million per day. Boy sure hurting and need to lay off a few employees to make ends meet.

Do some full cycle economics on a typical well for the area and see how long it takes to start making just a profit (not just revenue).

[Jim Blake]

Originally Posted by HeavyD111

Friend took a one month unpaid holiday because there is no work for him at the moment. He fracks and this is the first time that he has not worked at something since he was 16. The hammer continues to fall depending on what industry you are in it looks like.

The Oil & Gas Service Sector is going to take a major beating in Alberta for some time to come.

It already has spilled over to other sectors and will only increase.

Very sad for Families trying to make even a decent living.

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Any non-resource based economy in the world envies the Alberta oil and gas potential.
Clean responsible energy development promises jobs, tax and royalty revenue. It's a shame that this country, province and society manages it so poorly to the point of its demise.

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/ran...eserves_share/

Please explain your idea of responsible resource development? I personally don't think it was responsible to have the oilsands development going so hard that we had to bring in Chinese labor to get the projects on stream. That is like ****ing away our finite resources value to another country. Should we let industry decide how they log as well. Rubber stamp applications and let the logging companies decide what they cut. I'm sure if they brought in some foreign workers we could flood the market with logs as well and make lots of money for some AB people in the short term. In your eyes would that be considered responsible resource development?

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

Please explain your idea of responsible resource development? I personally don't think it was responsible to have the oilsands development going so hard that we had to bring in Chinese labor to get the projects on stream. That is like ****ing away our finite resources value to another country. Should we let industry decide how they log as well. Rubber stamp applications and let the logging companies decide what they cut. I'm sure if they brought in some foreign workers we could flood the market with logs as well and make lots of money for some AB people in the short term. In your eyes would that be considered responsible resource development?

If the renewable energy sector ever works wouldn't the oilsands be destroyed and all those finite resources left in the ground? Also all the current tax money being spent wouldn't exist nor would a pile of jobs outside the field. Obviously you have never applied for an oilsands permit if you think it is a rubber stamp.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

Please explain your idea of responsible resource development? I personally don't think it was responsible to have the oilsands development going so hard that we had to bring in Chinese labor to get the projects on stream. That is like ****ing away our finite resources value to another country. Should we let industry decide how they log as well. Rubber stamp applications and let the logging companies decide what they cut. I'm sure if they brought in some foreign workers we could flood the market with logs as well and make lots of money for some AB people in the short term. In your eyes would that be considered responsible resource development?

Albertas oil and gas is the most regulated oil industry in the world. Too bad it isn't the most profitable.
Canadians have been losing value to other countries for decades. You point out a Chinese investment in the oil sands. Big deal...
Canada can't finance itself.
Every molecule of petroleum product leaving this province has been leaking value to the US for as long as we've been producing. We complain about the 2018 oil differential but Alberta natural gas has had a huge discount for decades.

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by lastlatvian

Our carbon tax is the best in the countryi in terms of business option(s) it allows way more freedoms into taxing via the credit system (other provinces us it as a example). Our taxing outside of the carbon tax on oil is the same as the king ralph days and should actually be higher. If we had a progressive tax rate like most socialist countries i.e. norway or sweden -- we would have a rainy day fund and not be in this mess.

Instead we have decades of greedy conservative governments that didn't prepare for this, they squandered the money giving everyone a few bucks, and business kick backs. We are lucky we didn't become a new venezuela, a country with more oil and better quality oil. Alberta on the other hand has crap oil, for the most part that requires solvents just to get it to pump through a pipeline.

If we didn't put a curtailment we would not only have lower prices given to the US for pennies on the dollar, the same lay offs and more collapsing companies...

Everyone who thinks the conservatives could do a better job should remember the last time they literally blamed us.

I never realized that it was the government's job to save our money for us? No wonder a few people are so hateful of the cons.
Thank God the NDP are so good at saving. Otherwise we could be over 50 billion in debt....oh wait...

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Albertas oil and gas is the most regulated oil industry in the world. Too bad it isn't the most profitable.
Canadians have been losing value to other countries for decades. You point out a Chinese investment in the oil sands. Big deal...
Canada can't finance itself.
Every molecule of petroleum product leaving this province has been leaking value to the US for as long as we've been producing. We complain about the 2018 oil differential but Alberta natural gas has had a huge discount for decades.

As far as China goes it not about the financing that concerns me. Its about importing Chinese labor to Canadian soil that concerns me. That means a future Canadian ultimately loses the chance to develop that resource. I agree that Canada has been bleeding value for a long time. I have always supported tying resource extraction permits to local value added processes. Shipping out raw product is giving away a huge chunk of value for someone else to profit. Canada would be way better in the long run by reducing base resource extraction (see sustainability) and increasing value added processes.

Canada is well regulated while many "low cost" countries are abysmal in their safety and environmental standards. Would you rather we chase other countries to the bottom to save the oil companies some cost and pump profits and jobs? No building regs, No remediation regs, no abandonment regs, no landowner rights? Bigger profits would surely flow but where would THAT leave AB in the long run? I hear this drivel about over regulation and it gets old. Its never followed by a thought out and detailed discussion about what is truly unfair or unjustified with the regs. Just a comparison to third world countries and their cost of doing business compared to us LOL. Simply not an apples to apples comparison.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

I hear this drivel about over regulation and it gets old. Its never followed by a thought out and detailed discussion about what is truly unfair or unjustified with the regs. Just a comparison to third world countries and their cost of doing business compared to us LOL. Simply not an apples to apples comparison.

I don't hear many people complain about the regs. I hear more people saying other countries don't have the same standards yet we are perfectly content importing their oil and complaining about Alberta oil. You are correct it isn't an apples to apples comparison.
People complain about the reg process as since it is a government job it takes months to get approvals that should take days. Common sense doesn't prevail there.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

As far as China goes it not about the financing that concerns me. Its about importing Chinese labor to Canadian soil that concerns me. That means a future Canadian ultimately loses the chance to develop that resource. I agree that Canada has been bleeding value for a long time. I have always supported tying resource extraction permits to local value added processes. Shipping out raw product is giving away a huge chunk of value for someone else to profit. Canada would be way better in the long run by reducing base resource extraction (see sustainability) and increasing value added processes.

Canada is well regulated while many "low cost" countries are abysmal in their safety and environmental standards. Would you rather we chase other countries to the bottom to save the oil companies some cost and pump profits and jobs? No building regs, No remediation regs, no abandonment regs, no landowner rights? Bigger profits would surely flow but where would THAT leave AB in the long run? I hear this drivel about over regulation and it gets old. Its never followed by a thought out and detailed discussion about what is truly unfair or unjustified with the regs. Just a comparison to third world countries and their cost of doing business compared to us LOL. Simply not an apples to apples comparison.

Canadian workers are being diluted every year due to immigration, foreign workers are not my biggest concern.

You talk about value added processes. You can try to refine this stuff until your blue in the face. If you have only one buyer, you're not adding value. Alberta should look like the centre of a spiderweb with pipelines going to different buyers. Then you would get full value.

I'm glad you answered your own question regarding Albertas regulated oil and gas business. This is evident today in the Supreme Court ruling that the AER has been bird dogging for years. It has zero to do with a Chinese foreign worker.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

I agree but its unconstitutional and the supreme would vote it down.

Not being a lawyer I really don't know the answer, but it does seem if BC can change the law to tax out of province property owners, why not charge workers from other provinces income tax in the province they earn it in. It has never made sense that my neighbor down the street leaves for a week at a time, fly's to fort Mac and then pays income tax to the BC government ??????

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Canadian workers are being diluted every year due to immigration, foreign workers are not my biggest concern.

Why look at it as an either/or thing? I too have concerns with immigration. Doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't look at limiting the need for foreign workers as well.

[/QUOTE]You talk about value added processes. You can try to refine this stuff until your blue in the face. If you have only one buyer, you're not adding value. Alberta should look like the centre of a spiderweb with pipelines going to different buyers. Then you would get full value.[/QUOTE]

You are indeed adding value for the Province regardless of whether you are selling raw crude to one place or refined product to one place. The processing that would otherwise be done elsewhere generates huge net benefits for the province in a myriad of ways that otherwise would go to other countries. How many tax paying employees does a refinery maintain through its life? How much taxes does that facility pay directly by way of property and business taxes and all the sales taxes on various parts and services they buy through the life of the facility? They also provide indirect tax paying jobs to the likes of maintenance contractors and all kinds of outside suppliers that trickles down through our entire economy.

Again I wouldn't look at this in isolation. Building a refinery in AB doesn't mean you stop looking for alternative markets as well to maximize value. I 100% agree the more buyer access the better. I think we are capable of considering more than one variable here. At least I hope so.

[Deer Hunter]

Companies build refineries where you have cheap labour, increasing local demand and export markets. Alberta has none of these.

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Not being a lawyer I really don't know the answer, but it does seem if BC can change the law to tax out of province property owners, why not charge workers from other provinces income tax in the province they earn it in. It has never made sense that my neighbor down the street leaves for a week at a time, fly's to fort Mac and then pays income tax to the BC government ??????

Why hurt the very people that are clearly supportive of the oil industry and who's support we need to get a line through??? Would it not make more sense to charge more tax on the refined products going out to BC and actually maybe hit the people who are against the PL? Like an environmental PL maintenance fee... Be better if it could be focus on the lower mainland where most of the opposition is. Maybe add the fee specific to lines feeding the LM. Really drive the point home.

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Companies build refineries where you have cheap labour, increasing local demand and export markets. Alberta has none of these.

No refinery = no oilsands mine. Eventually they'll come around as there is still profits to be made and a limit to the number of opportunities in stable regions globally. I'd be supportive of some gov't loan guarantees to help lube the wheels as they do stand to gain a lot in the long run.

I'm not debating the need for PL's but PL's alone are not going to guarantee max value for ABer's. And no matter what we do and how many buyers we have access to (for crude or refined product) market forces will always ebb and flow so any development is going to look bad a times and a money machine at others. Supply and demand is everchanging. Gluts can turn to shortages in a very short time and vice versa.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

No refinery = no oilsands mine. Eventually they'll come around as there is still profits to be made and a limit to the number of opportunities in stable regions globally. I'd be supportive of some gov't loan guarantees to help lube the wheels as they do stand to gain in the long run.

The Government paying for/backing projects that make no economic sense is not helping the province.

Good read.

https://business.financialpost.com/c...-glut-solution