Province’s oil curtailments means layoffs

[troutbug]

This is terrible


https://lakelandconnect.net/2019/01/...vLwlzB2mGhLmMw

[elkhunter11]

Did anyone not expect this? The companies are not going to pay workers that they don't need to produce the reduced amounts of oil. And naturally our government will blame the companies, and not admit that their policies led to the layoffs.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Did anyone not expect this? The companies are not going to pay workers that they don't need to produce the reduced amounts of oil. And naturally our government will blame the companies, and not admit that their policies led to the layoffs.

What would you offer for a solution?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

What would you offer for a solution?

Pipelines are the obvious solution, but both our provincial and federal governments don't want pipelines. Our only hope, is that by next winter, we have pro pipeline governments.

[ghostguy6]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

What would you offer for a solution?

I say we shut off the taps everywhere they refuse the build the pipelines. Let the higher cost of gas there pay for the lost wages here.

[Lornce]

Perhaps the reason the east does not want pipelines is to keep the west from wielding more political power & keeping it in the east. After all, our Prime Minister in 2010 has publicly stated when asked whether he thought Canada was "better served when there are more Quebecers in charge than Albertans," Trudeau replied, "I'm a Liberal, so of course I think so, yes. Certainly, when we look at the great prime ministers of the 20th century, those that really stood the test of time, they were MPs from Quebec. There was Trudeau, there was Mulroney, there was Chrétien, there was Paul Martin. We have a role. This country, Canada, it belongs to us." told interviewer Patrick Lagacé.

Here in french
I was always under the impression Canada was east and wet as a whole but I guess not.

[Big Grey Wolf]

"Short term pain for long term gain" We now have Western Select prices that are very near WTI, not $12 /bbl oil. We were giving our oil away to dem Americans before the production restrictions were put in place. Well done Notley!

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Pipelines are the obvious solution, but both our provincial and federal governments don't want pipelines. Our only hope, is that by next winter, we have pro pipeline governments.

So no real solution just pointing out obvious facts and moaning about stuff out of our control. The UCP publicly stated they preferred the cuts before the NDP even finished considering the move.

Unfortunately we are stuck in a crappy spot with Ottawa manipulating us and theres not alot we can do. Even if Kenney gets elected hes powerless. He knows that more then Notley even does. He'll throw around a bunch of rhetoric and make it sound like he cares. And in the background he'll keep manipulating us while he takes a skim off of everything.

Atleast Notley and her motley crew attempting to invest in our province.

[Drewski Canuck]

I said it once, I said it twice, I will say it again.

Alberta Infrastructure Tax on Non resident income. WHY??? Provincial Income Tax is being paid in BC, Ontario, Quebec, on income earned in Alberta.

I could walk naked down Jasper Avenue painted green with Neon Signs on my head trying to point out the fact that the VERY PROVINCES THAT ARE WRECKING ALBERTA ARE TAKING THE BENEFIT OF ALBERTA WAGES EARNED BY THEIR CITIZENS, but no one will listen.

Cutting production from Alberta will do little for marketing Alberta Oil at World Prices, when Eastern Canadians themselves would rather buy foreign Oil at World Price over getting discounted ALBERTA OIL.

Eastern Canada knows that the "Carbon Footprint" of tanker delivered Oil is alot higher than the "Carbon Footprint" of a Pipeline, so don't fall for the hypocrisy of the "Dirty Oil" argument.

Instead, we should FIGHT BACK with a hefty surcharge on the Non Resident Income Earners. The Provincial Tax Revenue will be better off for it, and if BC, Ontario, and Quesbec do not like it, they can send their Citizens somewhere else to work.

Drewski

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

So no real solution just pointing out obvious facts and moaning about stuff out of our control. The UCP publicly stated they preferred the cuts before the NDP even finished considering the move.

Unfortunately we are stuck in a crappy spot with Ottawa manipulating us and theres not alot we can do. Even if Kenney gets elected hes powerless. He knows that more then Notley even does. He'll throw around a bunch of rhetoric and make it sound like he cares. And in the background he'll keep manipulating us while he takes a skim off of everything.

Atleast Notley and her motley crew attempting to invest in our province.

Had our provincial government been working towards getting pipelines built years ago, instead of opposing them, we might be a lot closer to having pipelines, which are the long term solution. But our provincial government instead chose to work against all non green energy , imposing a carbon tax, and siding with our anti oil federal government. And because of this, our entire energy sector is facing a huge crisis, and there is no immediate long term solution.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Had our provincial government been working towards getting pipelines built years ago, instead of opposing them, we might be a lot closer to having pipelines, which are the long term solution. But our provincial government instead chose to work against all non green energy , imposing a carbon tax, and siding with our anti oil federal government. And because of this, our entire energy sector is facing a huge crisis, and there is no immediate long term solution.

I do agree this is something we should of been on years ago I disagree with the rest. The carbon tax was meant to satisfy Ottawa and allow the plug to save face and allow the pipelines without alienating his eastern voting block of I'll informed idealists. If we would of come out swinging like a bunch of shoot from the hip tough guys they really would of ignored us. The real problem is we lack representation. The east already thinks we are loud hillbillies. Anytime we complain they call us entitled whiners. How we get around that is beyond me.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

I said it once, I said it twice, I will say it again.

Alberta Infrastructure Tax on Non resident income. WHY??? Provincial Income Tax is being paid in BC, Ontario, Quebec, on income earned in Alberta.

I could walk naked down Jasper Avenue painted green with Neon Signs on my head trying to point out the fact that the VERY PROVINCES THAT ARE WRECKING ALBERTA ARE TAKING THE BENEFIT OF ALBERTA WAGES EARNED BY THEIR CITIZENS, but no one will listen.

Cutting production from Alberta will do little for marketing Alberta Oil at World Prices, when Eastern Canadians themselves would rather buy foreign Oil at World Price over getting discounted ALBERTA OIL.

Eastern Canada knows that the "Carbon Footprint" of tanker delivered Oil is alot higher than the "Carbon Footprint" of a Pipeline, so don't fall for the hypocrisy of the "Dirty Oil" argument.

Instead, we should FIGHT BACK with a hefty surcharge on the Non Resident Income Earners. The Provincial Tax Revenue will be better off for it, and if BC, Ontario, and Quesbec do not like it, they can send their Citizens somewhere else to work.

Drewski

I agree but its unconstitutional and the supreme would vote it down.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Had our provincial government been working towards getting pipelines built years ago, instead of opposing them, we might be a lot closer to having pipelines, which are the long term solution. But our provincial government instead chose to work against all non green energy , imposing a carbon tax, and siding with our anti oil federal government. And because of this, our entire energy sector is facing a huge crisis, and there is no immediate long term solution.

In all fairness the NDP have only had 4 years to try and get pipelines approved and built. The Alberta Tories had 45 years before that and did nothing about it. In the meantime we got a dope for a PM that has not intention to build a pipeline anywhere.

The UCP and JK won't have any better luck getting a pipeline built either, and unfortunately I don't see the federal PC's forming the next government in Ottawa.

BW

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

I do agree this is something we should of been on years ago I disagree with the rest. The carbon tax was meant to satisfy Ottawa and allow the plug to save face and allow the pipelines without alienating his eastern voting block of I'll informed idealists. If we would of come out swinging like a bunch of shoot from the hip tough guys they really would of ignored us. The real problem is we lack representation. The east already thinks we are loud hillbillies. Anytime we complain they call us entitled whiners. How we get around that is beyond me.

Whether or not the carbon tax was meant to appease the federal government or not, we still have no pipelines, and no progress on pipelines. All that carbon tax did was cost the taxpayers money.

[6.5 shooter]

Why do you folks even bother to argue??? All you need to do is vote NDP and Liberal next election.....you will jump up and down for joy and feel you really stuck it to the big blue machine... you will smile, you will feel great, till your rifles and your money are gone...then whine and cry why no one saw this coming.

I dislike Kenny and I think Sheer is weak but they are far better alternatives to the Socialist, UN, minded alternatives.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

Why do you folks even bother to argue??? All you need to do is vote NDP and Liberal next election.....you will jump up and down for joy and feel you really stuck it to the big blue machine... you will smile, you will feel great, till your rifles and your money are gone...then whine and cry why no one saw this coming.

I dislike Kenny and I think Sheer is weak but they are far better alternatives to the Socialist, UN, minded alternatives.

Agreed, but we are becoming or maybe already are the minority in this country.

The conservative movement needs to do a better job recruiting leaders that appeal to the populist vote.

BW

[thenaturalwoodsman]

Wow!! Some of you people are so out of touch with comments like 45 years of PC Government's and no pipelines. Blah, Blah Blah, do you actually think we had a bottle neck of heavy oil for 45 years? For your knowledge it has only been the last 8 years of problems getting Alberta's oil to market. VOLUMES!!! The last 5 years have been the worst of those 8, and yes miss Notley has been in power for 4 of those 5 crucial years.

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by thenaturalwoodsman

Wow!! Some of you people are so out of touch with comments like 45 years of PC Government's and no pipelines. Blah, Blah Blah, do you actually think we had a bottle neck of heavy oil for 45 years? For your knowledge it has only been the last 8 years of problems getting Alberta's oil to market. VOLUMES!!! The last 5 years have been the worst of those 8, and yes miss Notley has been in power for 4 of those 5 crucial years.

Don't confuse them with facts....

[Drewski Canuck]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

I agree but its unconstitutional and the supreme would vote it down.

No it is Constitutional. You are free to move where you wish under the Charter of Rights, but taxation of income is a shared jurisdiction under the BNA Act.

If you work in the NWT as a non resident, you pay an income tax territorial "surcharge".

Back in the 1980's Alberta used this scheme to tax NHL hockey players who were playing in Edmonton or Calgary from out of Province. You see, even NY Islanders get paid per game played, and they were paying Provincial Income Tax in Alberta. Even Players from Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal had to pay.

SO, why should Alberta pay for the roads, hospitals, policing, environmental monitoring, OH & S enforcement, so another Province's Workers can come here as much as 21 days out of 30, and often even more, and take the tax windfall to their Province?

That is a "royalty" which will get the attention of the other Provinces. Who knows, maybe then Quebec, Ontario, and BC will recognize the value of jobs in Alberta from the Oil Industry.

Drewski

[IR_mike]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

Don't confuse them with facts....

Agreed.

[4570]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

No it is Constitutional. You are free to move where you wish under the Charter of Rights, but taxation of income is a shared jurisdiction under the BNA Act.

If you work in the NWT as a non resident, you pay an income tax territorial "surcharge".

Back in the 1980's Alberta used this scheme to tax NHL hockey players who were playing in Edmonton or Calgary from out of Province. You see, even NY Islanders get paid per game played, and they were paying Provincial Income Tax in Alberta. Even Players from Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal had to pay.

SO, why should Alberta pay for the roads, hospitals, policing, environmental monitoring, OH & S enforcement, so another Province's Workers can come here as much as 21 days out of 30, and often even more, and take the tax windfall to their Province?

That is a "royalty" which will get the attention of the other Provinces. Who knows, maybe then Quebec, Ontario, and BC will recognize the value of jobs in Alberta from the Oil Industry.

Drewski

Yes good idea
I was living in the NWT when they brought this tax in.
Perhaps 20 years ago, if my memory serves correct.
95+ % of all construction was done by workers from southern provinces.

No one even complained, many never noticed I bet.
Much more important for them was wages, hours, accommodations etc...

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

No it is Constitutional. You are free to move where you wish under the Charter of Rights, but taxation of income is a shared jurisdiction under the BNA Act.

If you work in the NWT as a non resident, you pay an income tax territorial "surcharge".

Back in the 1980's Alberta used this scheme to tax NHL hockey players who were playing in Edmonton or Calgary from out of Province. You see, even NY Islanders get paid per game played, and they were paying Provincial Income Tax in Alberta. Even Players from Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal had to pay.

SO, why should Alberta pay for the roads, hospitals, policing, environmental monitoring, OH & S enforcement, so another Province's Workers can come here as much as 21 days out of 30, and often even more, and take the tax windfall to their Province?

That is a "royalty" which will get the attention of the other Provinces. Who knows, maybe then Quebec, Ontario, and BC will recognize the value of jobs in Alberta from the Oil Industry.

Drewski

Interesting! I "thought" I read somewhere that this wasnt allowed. I am very comfortable being wrong here and we should be taxing out of province workers without an doubt!

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

Don't confuse them with facts....

No ones arguing any of this. And I'd hardly call a blind statement a fact. It's a little anecdotal at best. Arguable but not waterproof. So how much has production increased in the last 8 years? How many of those last 8nyears has our government been anti pipeline? How many has the Notley been trying to get a line built?

I'm all for blaming Trudeau. His liberal elite team is 100% responsible for this BS. But it's really not fair to blame notley. She really did try. This woman even stands up against her party. I feel she actually cares about us alot more then a 40 year old mamas boy that has yet to come of the closet. Who might I add has never worked a real job in his life.

And full disclosure my place of employment really benefits from a large bitumin to wti spread. We are talking 1 to 2 million a day in extra profit if the spreads more than $25. So on a personal level I stand to gain from the curtailment being removed. But I also know theres alot of people out there keeping their jobs because of it.

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

No ones arguing any of this. And I'd hardly call a blind statement a fact. It's a little anecdotal at best. Arguable but not waterproof. So how much has production increased in the last 8 years? How many of those last 8nyears has our government been anti pipeline? How many has the Notley been trying to get a line built?

I'm all for blaming Trudeau. His liberal elite team is 100% responsible for this BS. But it's really not fair to blame notley. She really did try. This woman even stands up against her party. I feel she actually cares about us alot more then a 40 year old mamas boy that has yet to come of the closet. Who might I add has never worked a real job in his life.

Wow for a lefty you did post a ton of trigger points I feel un safe and need to retreat to my safe place due to your insensitivity too? ... well dang near every one.
As for nutley doing anything for Alberta she never did squat till Kenny took her to task and the election was a month away...please, stopping BC wine from entering Alberta for 2 weeks is NOT leadership.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

Wow for a lefty you did post a ton of trigger points I feel un safe and need to retreat to my safe place due to your insensitivity too? ... well dang near every one.
As for nutley doing anything for Alberta she never did squat till Kenny took her to task and the election was a month away...please, stopping BC wine from entering Alberta for 2 weeks is NOT leadership.

I've never voted left in my life. And keep your whole trigger point to yourself. And Kenney doesnt keep her to task. Do you base everything off of Facebook posts?

No point even discussing anything with you. Next you'll be coming at me over vaccines and chemtrails...

Cheers

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

Wow for a lefty you did post a ton of trigger points I feel un safe and need to retreat to my safe place due to your insensitivity too? ... well dang near every one.
As for nutley doing anything for Alberta she never did squat till Kenny took her to task and the election was a month away...please, stopping BC wine from entering Alberta for 2 weeks is NOT leadership.

She has done piles for Alberta. She promoted all her NDP cronies to positions of power, taxed the **** out of us, and ran our deficit up into the billions. Now to correct your statement. She hasn’t done anything positive for Alberta until Kenney forced her to as she knows an election is coming soon!
Stopping wine for two weeks got us a pile of nothing! Lol

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

No ones arguing any of this. And I'd hardly call a blind statement a fact. It's a little anecdotal at best. Arguable but not waterproof. So how much has production increased in the last 8 years? How many of those last 8nyears has our government been anti pipeline? How many has the Notley been trying to get a line built?

I'm all for blaming Trudeau. His liberal elite team is 100% responsible for this BS. But it's really not fair to blame notley. She really did try. This woman even stands up against her party. I feel she actually cares about us alot more then a 40 year old mamas boy that has yet to come of the closet. Who might I add has never worked a real job in his life.

And full disclosure my place of employment really benefits from a large bitumin to wti spread. We are talking 1 to 2 million a day in extra profit if the spreads more than $25. So on a personal level I stand to gain from the curtailment being removed. But I also know theres alot of people out there keeping their jobs because of it.

Our premier made it very clear that she was anti oil, when she was protesting pipelines before she was elected. Then she attacked the oil industry with a delayed royalty review, and then a carbon tax. Only when it became apparent that she would have to appear to be pro pipeline to have any chance of re-election did she pretend to be pro pipeline. She could have played hardball with Horgan, but instead she made idle threats and delayed acting long enough for the federal government to step in and put an end to Trans Mountain. And of course she now blames the federal government, in an attempt to appear that she is fighting for Alberta. Anyone with a clue knows that the Trans Mountain commercials are nothing but a waste of money, but with an election coming, she is doing everything she can, to try and buy votes. As it stands, even more energy jobs will be lost, and it will only get worse before it gets better, which can only happen if both upcoming elections result in changes of government.

[AndrewM]

Production has grew by 0.5 million bbls per day over the last 4 years. 12.5% increase. Pipeline curtailment was around 7-10% at most to tighten the differentials up. Layoffs are only beginning. First wells companies shut in are the problem ones. Don’t fix those and positions start to dry up rather quickly.

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

I've never voted left in my life. And keep your whole trigger point to yourself. And Kenney doesnt keep her to task. Do you base everything off of Facebook posts?

No point even discussing anything with you. Next you'll be coming at me over vaccines and chemtrails...

Cheers

triggered you are....lol

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

I said it once, I said it twice, I will say it again.

Alberta Infrastructure Tax on Non resident income. WHY??? Provincial Income Tax is being paid in BC, Ontario, Quebec, on income earned in Alberta.

I could walk naked down Jasper Avenue painted green with Neon Signs on my head trying to point out the fact that the VERY PROVINCES THAT ARE WRECKING ALBERTA ARE TAKING THE BENEFIT OF ALBERTA WAGES EARNED BY THEIR CITIZENS, but no one will listen.

Cutting production from Alberta will do little for marketing Alberta Oil at World Prices, when Eastern Canadians themselves would rather buy foreign Oil at World Price over getting discounted ALBERTA OIL.

Eastern Canada knows that the "Carbon Footprint" of tanker delivered Oil is alot higher than the "Carbon Footprint" of a Pipeline, so don't fall for the hypocrisy of the "Dirty Oil" argument.

Instead, we should FIGHT BACK with a hefty surcharge on the Non Resident Income Earners. The Provincial Tax Revenue will be better off for it, and if BC, Ontario, and Quesbec do not like it, they can send their Citizens somewhere else to work.

Drewski

Best post of 2019 thus far....can I get a Wo bundy.