Stop paid hunting

[Bobby Dochee]

Originally Posted by Huntingdad

Not sure who 209 is? I was told that Bob was at the meetings and thought it was Hunting for Tommorow that he was with? You sure seem to know a lot of the members for someone who has only posted today??? More Fishy stuff>????

Fishy yes. I have been fishing around for a while trying to find information. Finaly decided to post. Same as you was it yesterday. Is he really wiht Hunting for Tommorow? I read there rep was Kelly Semple wasnt it. Will have to look into this.

huntingdad, are you a member of another board with the same name?

[Huntingdad]

Hey you guys I didnt mean to start anything here but I have some facts that I thought Id share why all the attitude??????

Are you protecting something??????


Here's what I now as fact

1 Bob was at at Open Spaces meeting and this is the first weve herd
2 Southern Alberta rep for Fish and Game did not go to executive meeting where Morton's guys gave a presentation about Open Spaces.
3 You guys seem awful upset about some new facts being brought up

Correct me if Im wrong.

You wanted to know for several weeks about more information and now I bring it and I get jumped on what gives? If you now Bob so well why is this just being herd about now????????

I'm against this thing as the next guy but sure seems there is a lot more going on hear. Why you so ****ed about me posting up some facts??????>?

lurch are you the guy that breeds goldens? If so now a guy that has one. Great dog!!

[Huntingdad]

Originally Posted by SNIPER

huntingdad, are you a member of another board with the same name?

Yup a couple ones!

[Bobby Dochee]

Originally Posted by Huntingdad

Hey you guys I didnt mean to start anything here but I have some facts that I thought Id share why all the attitude??????

Are you protecting something??????


Here's what I now as fact

1 Bob was at at Open Spaces meeting and this is the first weve herd
2 Southern Alberta rep for Fish and Game did not go to executive meeting where Morton's guys gave a presentation about Open Spaces.
3 You guys seem awful upset about some new facts being brought up

Correct me if Im wrong.

You wanted to know for several weeks about more information and now I bring it and I get jumped on what gives? If you now Bob so well why is this just being herd about now????????

I'm against this thing as the next guy but sure seems there is a lot more going on hear. Why you so ****ed about me posting up some facts??????>?

I don't know Bob from Adam Bill or Fred. I am just going on what I have read tonight that he may be willing to share some information. I have seen your kind of posting before on this forum. "I know everything but im not going to share". If you truly are a huntingdad then you will share what you know with the rest of the hunting population. If you are not willing to do this then why post at all. Before you respond I have no more information than is available on this forum.

I am pulling this quote from your very first post

"We finally have an issue we can all mostly agree on and an issue that threatens hunting but all many of the people here can do is try to find someone else to blame and to pick at members."

and the first thing you do is try to find blame with people and to pick at the members. I do not care whos fault it is just want it stopped. Do you? We can worry about the proccess later.

[Huntingdad]

I don't know Bob from Adam Bill or Fred. I am just going on what I have read tonight that he may be willing to share some information. I have seen your kind of posting before on this forum. "I know everything but im not going to share".

I thought I did just share what I now. Thats why I called them facts. You now something that says Im wrong? Wasn't Bob at the meetings. Didn't the Zone 1 guy skip the most important executive meeting ever? Aren't you guys all upset?

[TreeGuy]

Jamie I just finished reading the 'Lease Access' thread under the Hunting Discussions, and a GIANT lightbulb just turned on.........

Are the worst case scenarios you inferred to perhaps related to Lease holders being able to charge us to access our own public lands? If so, then WOW, this cat is on board, 'cause I just can't resist a good fight!

Tree

[Bobby Dochee]

Originally Posted by Huntingdad

I thought I did just share what I now. Thats why I called them facts. You now something that says Im wrong? Wasn't Bob at the meetings. Didn't the Zone 1 guy skip the most important executive meeting ever? Aren't you guys all upset?

I see youre trying to prove a point here so yes the Zone 1 guy did miss the meeting you are right. Did he get feedback from southern hunters based on the information available. Yes he did. Do you know what came out of the meetings? I read the position on AFGA website. Seems like it was a waste of time. Are you sure Bob Gruszecki was involved with the working group or the open spaces pilot? Do you have a document to backup your claim. I have the open spaces document and terms of reference document to backup my claims.

dealing with you is like dealing with politicians only answer questions that suit you needs. So i am posting this again

I am pulling this quote from your very first post

"We finally have an issue we can all mostly agree on and an issue that threatens hunting but all many of the people here can do is try to find someone else to blame and to pick at members."

and the first thing you do is try to find blame with people and to pick at the members. I do not care whos fault it is just want it stopped. Do you? We can worry about the proccess later.

.

[TreeGuy]

Hey, Lurch, the only problem I have with reading your posts is that afterwards I can never get the theme song from the "Adams Family" out of my head! (Sorry, just had to add some humor to a potentially grim situation)

Originally Posted by lurch

.

The real question is do you support paid hunting.

Tough question. In a way, I feel that I pay for hunting right now when I drop over $200 a year on tags. I DO support it in terms of if/when I do have the funds I can go on a guided hunt and get a chance at almost any animal on the Planet (legal of course) that my bank account can afford. I'm cool with that.

I believe that landowners have the right to do whatever they please with their land. I also believe that there should be a system in place (tax incentives, etc) that rewards landowners for allowing access. As for paying a landowner directly to hunt his property, I'm still kindda on the fence (but learning more about it every day, so I'll reserve judgement for now).

BUT, paying to hunt on public land held via a lease, to me is very, very wrong and reeks of cronyism and all that is percieved to be wrong with politicis and politicians in general.

I know that this seems like a 'wishy-washy' answer, but for now it's the best one I have. Many thanks for your efforts as this issue (no matter how you percieve it) will effect us all. I look foreward to Rust's next post. Interesting stuff for sure. Keep at it. I'll be paying attention.

Tree

[Trail Blazer]

All I can say is Bob has the biggest heart for the outdoors and education. If you was to phone Bob he would tell you who the Wise Foundation is , Hunting For Tomorrow is and the Alberta Hunter Education Instructors Association is. He created them all for us to educate young and old. Bob also has other positions with other board which their are to many to name and if you phone him he can and will explain everything.
It is not my place to defend Bob or his staff but they are the most dedicated group of men and women who are here to help our natural resource and educate people like you and me.
So this year at the Boat and Sportsmen Show you all stop by and see us you here.

Does anyone know Brad Fenson's e-mail? p.m.is fine

.

Originally Posted by Huntingdad

I thought I did just share what I now. Thats why I called them facts. You now something that says Im wrong? Wasn't Bob at the meetings. Didn't the Zone 1 guy skip the most important executive meeting ever? Aren't you guys all upset?

I must apologize Huntingdad.

If you are trying to shed light on this whole discussion, then great.

What meeting are you speaking of?

Kelly Semple was the representative for HFT in the working group during the Open Spaces development. This is taken from the Alberta Land and Wildlife Stewardship Terms of Reference document.
If Bob had a role please provide it, and what that role was. Please also let us know his position.

The zone 1 representative did in fact miss this meeting. For a third person observer, it may appear to be fishy.
The reality was that he gave his word to do the WVTC trophy day event. He has done this for the past several years.
I appreciate that he honored his commitment with these folks.

I am more upset that given the nature of the situation, the AFGA could not have arranged a meeting with SRD on any other day to allow the zone 1 rep to attend. I am doubly troubled that the information exchanged at that meeting is not available on the AFGA website to allow all of us to decide. The position paper posted as a result of the consultation is a joke, and also the real fishy component in this.

As has been mentioned Huntingdad - there will be plenty of time to delve into these things after we get this stopped. Lets focus on the government for now.

sent my letters to the government guys.

lets hope they get a pile of them

[Rust]

Ok Guys, Just got off the phone with Mr. Gruszecki.

1. HFT were at the table in the very start, but only long enough to voice their opinion of this. As soon as they said they were against it they were not invited back.
Sounds like the groups at the table/discussions got smaller and smaller as soon as someone was against it.

2. He does believe in some form of compinsations (i.e tax breaks or benefits) but NOT paid access/hunting. He does not think that the hunter should have to open his wallet to for this. And does not feel that this is what Morton had in mind either.

3. In regards to all the questions that I sent him (the same ones that are posted along with one of the e-mails that I previously posted) He is asking a lot of those same questions too.

4. And as far as any e-mails to the Beef Producer/Stock Growers kinda of ppl he said is probably a waist of time. He Highly doubts they will even respond. He said that ppl that are involved at the meetings/talks (from what I understand are over) are basicly sworn to secrecy, and that the only reason that he could talk was because he is no longer invited/involved!

He also told me that one of the best things we can do right now is send letters and e-mails to EVERY MLA so that they are/become aware of our concerns of this. So that they can start asking questions and putting the heat on the gov. to find out what is going on.

Bob is also going to be in Edmonton tomorrow and Friday at the legislator and he will be asking a LOT of questions. He said that as soon as he hears something he will pass it on to me and he wants to stay in touch. He also feels like we have a good chance at beating this still !!!!

Something else to consider here is that yes HFT was there the start of these talks. THis is off the Fact sheet form U of C site.

Representation:
-Alberta Beef Producers
-Alberta Fish and Game
-Western Stock Growers
-Alberta Professional Outfitters
-HUNTING FOR TOMORROW
-Alberta Conservation
-Alberta Association of Municipal Districts and Counties
-Alberta Agriculture and Food
-Alberta Employment, Immigration and Industy

But HFT was never invited back because they opposed it. So how many other of these Associations were not invited back????? (I don't know)
Yet U of C is more then happy to say Yup HFT guys were here!!! Well we have just found out other wise.

Anyways that is what I have for now. I encourage others to get in contact with Mr. Gruszecki too if you have other questions. His e-mail is posted on page one of this thread. You might want to just send him you Phone # cause he would probably rather talk to ya.
Hope this helps a bit guys.
Rust

Thanks for the information Rust, I'm an HFT and Bob Gruszecki fan and I'm glad to hear where they stand and the process that led them to this point. Funny how this committee likes having a group like that on the list of those involved just to maintain legitimacy.

.

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by lurch

Thanks for the information Rusty. Sounds like the HFT guys were in our corner from the start.

Here is a reply that I just received form Richard Marz - MLA in the Cabinet Policy Committee

Thank you for you recent correspondence regarding the Open Spaces
Alberta Pilot Program. As this matter rests with the Ministry of
Sustainable Resource Development, I have consulted with Honourable Ted
Morton, Minister of Sustainable Resource Development, in preparing my
response.

Good public hunting depends on an abundance of wildlife. Abundant
wildlife depends on the availability of quality habitat. In Southern and
Central Alberta, three-quarters of the habitat is on privately owned
land. Private landowners receive little or no compensation to maintain
wildlife habitat on their land or to increase public access to their
property. These landowners provide this important public benefit at
considerable costs and risk to themselves. At the same time, access to
private land is becoming more difficult; the number of hunters is
declining; and access to prime fishing areas is decreasing.
Open Spaces Alberta is a pilot program that aims to improve and expand
public hunting by providing increased access, increased habitat and
increased wildlife populations. The propose pilot project would include
only two areas in southwestern Alberta (Wildlife Management Units 108
and 300) and last only five years.
Stakeholder groups have been engaged in the process and will continue to
be throughout the five-year trial period. At the end of five years,
Fish and Wildlife Division will consult with all stakeholders to
determine whether program goals have been achieved and whether the
program should be expanded or terminated.

Sincerely,

Richard Marz, MLA
Olds Didsbury Three Hills


I know there have been rumors that Morton did not support this pilot - I would suggest that this reply refutes that.

Keep applying pressure to these guys.

He might have consulted Morton's office alright, but all they handed him was the canned party response, plain and simple.

It's nothing more than a curteous PFO form letter...

Waxy

[Rust]

Originally Posted by Waxy

He might have consulted Morton's office alright, but all they handed him was the canned party response, plain and simple.

It's nothing more than a curteous PFO form letter...

Waxy

I think I would have to agree with you waxy. About half ways through his response I was like I have heard this before. And I am 100% sure that I read those exact words somewhere else. It is a copy and paste deal I think.
Rust

Found this on the Liberal Caucus site.

http://alc.whitematter.ca/index.php/..._for_land_use/

Bubba

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by bubbasno1

Found this on the Liberal Caucus site.

http://alc.whitematter.ca/index.php/..._for_land_use/

Bubba

Very interesting...

Who would have ever thought that the Liberals would be more in tune with the hunting community than the Conservatives.

There are a lot of issues out there for the election, but I gotta say, if the Liberals come out strongly against the Open Spaces program, that'll go a long way towards them getting their first vote from me.

Waxy

[Jamie]

Please Pm me if you want exact info on all this paid hunting.
I just recieved the paper work and will forward it on.

Jamie