Nafta

[densa44]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/nafta-c...rump-1.4406520

Well this is the first article that I have seen from an American farmer about NAFTA. He and his family are Trump supporters but it looks like he depends on free trade to keep his family farm afloat.

When Free trade with the USA was first proposed, I was opposed because I thought that the Americans being bigger and better at this sort of thing would get the better of us. Actually it has IMO turned out to be good for both countries just like the economists said it would.

Due to the size of the US economy leaving NAFTA could have disastrous consequences for their farm community.

What do we expect that it will do to ours?

Mexico has already made deals with other countries in South America to replace the products they used to buy from the USA.

[Gray Wolf]

I've read several different articles, from a number of sources. They all indicate that US industry and agriculture, almost unanimously, do NOT want NAFTA to fold. NAFTA may need a few tweaks, but overall, it's a good trade agreement.

If that crazy Trump decided to end NAFTA, they would do to him what Italy eventually did to Mussolini. The up-side is, he probably knows that
.

[KinAlberta]

It will be interesting if Trump cancelled NAFTA. It would provide a good push to Alberta and Canada to try to make up for the losses by focusing on developing more trade with other countries. (Of course there’d be some interim hardship but that’s how it goes.)

Canada increasingly concerned Trump will pull out of NAFTA: Report
BNN - 19 hours ago
Loonie weakens as Canada, U.S. tensions rise over NAFTA - Article - BNN

http://www.bnn.ca/canada-increasingl...eport-1.964359




Alberta exporters hope NAFTA can be saved but ponder life without it
With a $90 billion annual stake in the deal, 'you have to imagine what is the worst-case scenario'

Excerpt:

“But petroleum producers aren't the only ones tied to U.S. trade.

America is Alberta's largest trading partner for agriculture and food products. The province also does billions of dollars in trade in plastics, machinery and organic chemicals. “

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/business...pact-1.4446600

[Big Grey Wolf]

Trump needs to be careful, one of the primary US reasons for origional NAFTA was that we had to provide same amount of oil export to them under different world energy crisis. No NAFTA no oil, Americans may "freeze in the dark" even with some increased fracking wells.

[dmcbride]

Trudeau never should have campaigned for Hilary and gave the Clinton foundation $20 million tax dollars. I doubt Trump liked that.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by densa44

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/nafta-c...rump-1.4406520

Well this is the first article that I have seen from an American farmer about NAFTA. He and his family are Trump supporters but it looks like he depends on free trade to keep his family farm afloat.

When Free trade with the USA was first proposed, I was opposed because I thought that the Americans being bigger and better at this sort of thing would get the better of us. Actually it has IMO turned out to be good for both countries just like the economists said it would.

Due to the size of the US economy leaving NAFTA could have disastrous consequences for their farm community.

What do we expect that it will do to ours?

Mexico has already made deals with other countries in South America to replace the products they used to buy from the USA.

It's interesting that American farmers realize that if Trump manages to destroy NAFTA it will be themselves that pay a disproportional price. I imagine there will be a lot of looking in the mirror at that point wondering what they did when they cast a vote in his direction, thereby putting him in charge.
If it is cancelled, the first thing I'd love to see is Canada cancel the alcohol requirement in gasoline. The vast majority of that product is produced south of the border as a direct subsidy to farmers and without Canada purchasing millions of gallons of it, corn prices will fall through the floor.

[Newview01]

What will benefit Canada. That's what I am interested in.

[Etownguy]

In a radio interview (forget when/where), the interviewed guest said something about a 6 month clause in which the US can state that they may withdraw from the agreement. However, that does not mean they necessarily WILL withdraw....the clause could be used to;
1) add negotiating pressure (i.e., Canada has 6 months to agree to US terms or else), and/or
2) signal to other countries that there is uncertainty in Canada/Mexico economies and thus the US is open for business.

In other words, it could just be a negotiating tactic. or not....

[elk396]

Say Trump decides to pull out, what channels does it have to go thru? Can he just nix it himself or does congress vote? How does that work, surely he can't singlehandedly do that?

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Etownguy

In a radio interview (forget when/where), the interviewed guest said something about a 6 month clause in which the US can state that they may withdraw from the agreement. However, that does not mean they necessarily WILL withdraw....the clause could be used to;
1) add negotiating pressure (i.e., Canada has 6 months to agree to US terms or else), and/or
2) signal to other countries that there is uncertainty in Canada/Mexico economies and thus the US is open for business.

In other words, it could just be a negotiating tactic. or not....

True. They are also a little upset that Canada just went to the WTO with a long list for them to deal with. I'm glad to see Canada throwing it back into Trumps face.
http://business.financialpost.com/ne...print-producrs

[lmtada]

Originally Posted by Scott h

True. They are also a little upset that Canada just went to the WTO with a long list for them to deal with. I'm glad to see Canada throwing it back into Trumps face.
http://business.financialpost.com/ne...print-producrs

Americans will laugh at this **** list. Trump team is changing the Dynamics of trade with America. Canadian negotiation team is “Stupid”.


https://www.bnn.ca/delusional-naive-...ctics-1.965201

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by Newview01

What will benefit Canada. That's what I am interested in.

Well said sir

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by lmtada

Americans will laugh at this **** list. Trump team is changing the Dynamics of trade with America. Canadian negotiation team is “Stupid”.


https://www.bnn.ca/delusional-naive-...ctics-1.965201

Oh well, I guess we'll see what occurs. Pushing Trump to the breaking point would not only be fun to watch (it can't be long til he has a big jammer ) but having him pull out of NAFTA would destroy much of the farming/ranching states that were the back bone of his campaign.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Oh well, I guess we'll see what occurs. Pushing Trump to the breaking point would not only be fun to watch but having him pull out of NAFTA would destroy much of the farming/ranching states that were a the back bone of his campaign.

Sadly Canada will suffer way more than the US.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by elk396

Say Trump decides to pull out, what channels does it have to go thru? Can he just nix it himself or does congress vote? How does that work, surely he can't singlehandedly do that?

It sounds like he may need congress and with a election coming in 2018 it would be interesting how much support he would lose if he tries to pull out of NAFTA. There are a lot of states that really don't want the treaty to fall apart.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

Sadly Canada will suffer way more than the US.

I guess the alternative is to bend over and hope they're gentle.......

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Scott h

I guess the alternative is to bend over and hope they're gentle.......

They have a leader who has the country’s best interests in mind. Other countries will not benefit from this. Too bad we have a wet noodle as a leader.

[2 Tollers]

Originally Posted by Newview01

What will benefit Canada. That's what I am interested in.

Well I think we were sunk on benefits to Canada before the negotiations started. If you go back to the initial announcement of priorities --- stronger labour standards, tougher environmental protection provisions as well as chapters on gender and Indigenous rights --- these were not and are not industry game changers to bring more business into Canada. They were points trying to force another country to change the way they work. The USA is right in pushing for business items that benefit their agenda and we should be doing the same not trying to use NAFTA to force a social agenda on other countries.

The same priorities were put forward by Trudeau in the Asia summit deal which got a few countries upset.

The failure on tactics is with the group from Ottawa.

[.264 Win Mag]

Originally Posted by Newview01

They have a leader who has the country’s best interests in mind. Other countries will not benefit from this. Too bad we have a wet noodle as a leader.

Couldn’t agree more. He’s an absolute failure.

[Mikeham]

Originally Posted by .264 Win Mag

Couldn’t agree more. He’s an absolute failure.

Do you really think that Canada is bending over and giving into the US on NAFTA, or do you just hate Trudeau? Canada isn’t giving a lot, which is why talks are failing. If Canada was not standing up for our best interests, the US would make a deal and we would agree to it.

So which is it?

[mgvande]

Originally Posted by .264 Win Mag

Couldn’t agree more. He’s an absolute failure.

Trudeau isn't doing any negotiations on this. He doesn't even read the news. If something important happens someone will tell him.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Mikeham

Do you really think that Canada is bending over and giving into the US on NAFTA, or do you just hate Trudeau? Canada isn’t giving a lot, which is why talks are failing. If Canada was not standing up for our best interests, the US would make a deal and we would agree to it.

So which is it?

My opinion is that Trudeau is focusing on issues that have nothing to do with improving trade relations (indigenous rights, environment, I just threw up in my mouth) so therefore the US is saying screw you. If Canada sent someone to the table that was solely interested in mutually improving each other’s economies and throwing political correctness out the window, things would be a lot further ahead.

But I have been wrong before.

[MyAlberta]

Originally Posted by Newview01

My opinion is that Trudeau is focusing on issues that have nothing to do with improving trade relations (indigenous rights, environment, I just threw up in my mouth) so therefore the US is saying screw you. If Canada sent someone to the table that was solely interested in mutually improving each other’s economies and throwing political correctness out the window, things would be a lot further ahead.

But I have been wrong before.

So what’s your opinion on the important issues such as softwood lumber, autos, and arbitration? Or that your provinces main income will be tied to a pipeline running into protectionist territory.

[drhu22]

Originally Posted by densa44

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/nafta-c...rump-1.4406520

Well this is the first article that I have seen from an American farmer about NAFTA. He and his family are Trump supporters but it looks like he depends on free trade to keep his family farm afloat.
When Free trade with the USA was first proposed, I was opposed because I thought that the Americans being bigger and better at this sort of thing would get the better of us. Actually it has IMO turned out to be good for both countries just like the economists said it would.
Due to the size of the US economy leaving NAFTA could have disastrous consequences for their farm community.

What do we expect that it will do to ours?
Mexico has already made deals with other countries in South America to replace the products they used to buy from the USA.

edit

[Bonescreek]

Free Trade AgreeMent (FTA) will only include US, Mexico and Canada.
ALL other countries, counties, states, islands, territories, huts, nuts and tents will be exempt in any and every way. * see notation
No exceptions, any and all amendments shall be void and null.

[MyAlberta]

Originally Posted by Bonescreek

Free Trade AgreeMent (FTA) will only include US, Mexico and Canada.
ALL other countries would be exempt in any and every way.
No exceptions, any and all amendments shall be void and null.

I’d be thinking you want to engage the new kid on the block, and that ain’t Donald. The states will have their glory, but then she’s all used up. Be ahead of the curve.

[Bonescreek]

No more used up than you are, who is following who ?

[Bonescreek]

She came in through the bathroom window
Protected by a silver spoon
But now she sucks her thumb and wanders
By the banks of her own lagoon

Didn't anybody tell her?
Didn't anybody see?
Sunday's on the phone to Monday
Tuesday's on the phone to me

She said she'd always been a dancer
She worked at fifteen clubs a day
And though she thought I knew the answer
Well, I knew what I could not say

And so I quit the police department
And got myself a steady job
And though she tried her best to help me
She could steal but she could not rob

Didn't anybody tell her?
Didn't anybody see?
Sunday's on the phone to Monday,
Tuesday's on the phone to me

Oh yeah

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by MyAlberta

So what’s your opinion on the important issues such as softwood lumber, autos, and arbitration? Or that your provinces main income will be tied to a pipeline running into protectionist territory.

My opinion is that if we had a leader who didn’t want to see the West fail, as well as someone who had some negotiating / business skills, we would both benefit.

A good deal benefits both sides. It takes a skilled person to make a good deal. I don’t have high hopes here.

[Unregistered user]

Water is part of NAFTA, US has to be careful.