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  #61  
Old 10-27-2017, 07:59 AM
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Guys, obviously this is a polarizing issue. Remember this is a forum to "discuss" things, not a place to sling insults. This thread has not fallen off the rails, but the Khadr ones certainly did, and resulted in numerous timeouts. Let's not have this happen on this one. The moment it turns into mocking or insults, it is going bye bye, along with the person(s) who make it go off the rails.
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  #62  
Old 10-27-2017, 09:54 AM
conservativeken conservativeken is offline
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Originally Posted by Sporty View Post
So people are okay with the government being complicit with falsely accusing, detaining and torturing Canadian citizens?
They shouldn't be Canadian citizens to begin with.

And yes, there are problems with our government but the answer is not to give millions of dollars to specific victims - we are ALL victims of the government, just consider who is footing the bill for all of this waste.
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  #63  
Old 10-27-2017, 10:02 AM
midgetwaiter midgetwaiter is offline
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
So they collected millions, even though the actions of Canadians could not be proven to be the reason that they were detained or tortured, and no Canadians tool part in the torture.
Riiiiight so there’s two problems with this I can see.

The Syrian government was detaining these guy based on information that was not solid enough to detain them here. You can’t have it both ways, either you follow the rule of law or you don’t. Then knowing damn well that the reasons behind detention did not meet our justice standards and that mistreatment was basically a forgone conclusion the security services decided to participate by sending questions over to be asked on their behalf. How is that not taking part?

You my friend are munching on a steak and calling the butcher a murderer.
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  #64  
Old 10-27-2017, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
I wonder how many of the contributors understand the simple fact that the Canadian Secret Service falsely accused these guys, told Syria they were terrorists, and they were subsequently jailed and tortured in Syria as a result of those false accusations. ?
Do you know they falsely accused them. Did they tell the Syrians they were actual terrorists or did they tell the Syrians they were on a watch list. That's two very different things. If Canada said they were terrorists why didn't Canada arrest them while they were here. I kind of doubt Canada phoned up Syrian Authorities and said that these guys are terrorists and they should arrest them. More like Canada said we been watching these guys, heads up they are going to be in Syria you might want to keep an eye on them. What Syria does with that is beyond Canadian control. There are watch lists of thousands of people all over the world.

You or I might be on a watch list because we might have been seen talking to a neighbor who is on a watch list, related to someone who is, work with someone, maybe you checked out a website while surfing or clicked on a internet link off a forum or facebook or friends with some on facebook, instagram, etc. That's all it takes to put your name on a list. Doesn't mean your guilty of anything but if you go to one of those countries they are going to look into you. You don't have the same legal rights in those countries, you could be picked up and arrested or at least watched. You go into a mosque, the wrong restaurant or shop that is suspected or people in there that are suspected unknownst to you, it doesn't take much to get the wrong attention noticed and picked up. If you say the wrong thing or act the wrong way your going to be in deep kaka. I say if you go to those places your on your own. Travelling to these countries can be very risky, they run your ID or passport and somehow your name comes up because you clicked on some website 4 years ago you might never see daylight again.

I don't believe its the Canadian gov'ts responsibility what these other countries do with information they are provided. I think these lawsuits are ridiculous. If that Canadian blew up a school or something while visiting Syria and Canada didn't give them the information that might have prevented it then the blood is on Canada's hands. The Gov't is in a catch 22 situation. Should they be held accountable? Either way it's a dicy situation and mistakes will be made, unfortunately innocents will get caught up in it. Best not to put yourself in that situation, stay away from those wacked out countries whether you were born there or have family friends or weddings to attend your throwing the dice if you go there.
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  #65  
Old 10-27-2017, 10:31 AM
conservativeken conservativeken is offline
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The bigger philosophical issue here is that you must be willing to accept some collateral damage to have a "justice system" because there will always be some people who are wrongly convicted. Our justice system works on "reasonable doubt" - NOT on absolute truth or fact, which we have no access to.

But I don't think that leftists want to get rid of our justice system in its entirety. They quite like it when it's used to take possessions of hard working men and give them to conniving women, for example, or to punish white nationalists from saying truthful things that offend others.

What the leftists appear to be doing in cases like this is more of what they do best: virtual signalling, but with much higher stakes. Oppressed minorities having their convictions reassessed and undermined, being given multi-million dollar payouts. It's along the same lines that we're light on petty criminals. Our justice system is being increasingly politicized. The biggest losers here are going to be hard working white males, since they are the lowest rung of the leftists social order.
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  #66  
Old 10-27-2017, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by conservativeken View Post
The bigger philosophical issue here is that you must be willing to accept some collateral damage to have a "justice system" because there will always be some people who are wrongly convicted. Our justice system works on "reasonable doubt" - NOT on absolute truth or fact, which we have no access to.

But I don't think that leftists want to get rid of our justice system in its entirety. They quite like it when it's used to take possessions of hard working men and give them to conniving women, for example, or to punish white nationalists from saying truthful things that offend others.

What the leftists appear to be doing in cases like this is more of what they do best: virtual signalling, but with much higher stakes. Oppressed minorities having their convictions reassessed and undermined, being given multi-million dollar payouts. It's along the same lines that we're light on petty criminals. Our justice system is being increasingly politicized. The biggest losers here are going to be hard working white males, since they are the lowest rung of the leftists social order.
I believe you have hit the target with this post..This is exactly what is happening in our world today...Good post
Zip
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  #67  
Old 10-27-2017, 11:02 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by midgetwaiter View Post
Riiiiight so there’s two problems with this I can see.

The Syrian government was detaining these guy based on information that was not solid enough to detain them here. You can’t have it both ways, either you follow the rule of law or you don’t. Then knowing damn well that the reasons behind detention did not meet our justice standards and that mistreatment was basically a forgone conclusion the security services decided to participate by sending questions over to be asked on their behalf. How is that not taking part?

You my friend are munching on a steak and calling the butcher a murderer.
When someone is being held in Syria, they are held under Syrian law, not Canadian law. Our Canadian system really did a good job with Abdulahi Sharif.
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  #68  
Old 10-27-2017, 11:06 AM
HyperMOA HyperMOA is online now
 
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Travis Vader is an innocent man who was held and tortured by our "justice systems" rulings. Do you guys think we should stroke him a cheque for 10 million too? Or are you so racist, that you think only brown people should be compensated?

A court ruling doesn't mean somebody is innocent.
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  #69  
Old 10-27-2017, 11:40 AM
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CMichaud CMichaud is offline
 
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Originally Posted by HyperMOA View Post
Travis Vader is an innocent man who was held and tortured by our "justice systems" rulings. Do you guys think we should stroke him a cheque for 10 million too? Or are you so racist, that you think only brown people should be compensated?

A court ruling doesn't mean somebody is innocent.
I don't want to comment on Vader but where has anyone said they only want to persecute "brown" people?

Why is this remotely about the colour of their skin?

Is there an actual indication of racial bias being applied by CSIS or the RCMP or are you bringing racism into this on pure supposition?
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  #70  
Old 10-27-2017, 11:56 AM
purgatory.sv purgatory.sv is offline
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Originally Posted by Bushrat View Post
Do you know they falsely accused them. Did they tell the Syrians they were actual terrorists or did they tell the Syrians they were on a watch list. That's two very different things. If Canada said they were terrorists why didn't Canada arrest them while they were here. I kind of doubt Canada phoned up Syrian Authorities and said that these guys are terrorists and they should arrest them. More like Canada said we been watching these guys, heads up they are going to be in Syria you might want to keep an eye on them. What Syria does with that is beyond Canadian control. There are watch lists of thousands of people all over the world.

You or I might be on a watch list because we might have been seen talking to a neighbor who is on a watch list, related to someone who is, work with someone, maybe you checked out a website while surfing or clicked on a internet link off a forum or facebook or friends with some on facebook, instagram, etc. That's all it takes to put your name on a list. Doesn't mean your guilty of anything but if you go to one of those countries they are going to look into you. You don't have the same legal rights in those countries, you could be picked up and arrested or at least watched. You go into a mosque, the wrong restaurant or shop that is suspected or people in there that are suspected unknownst to you, it doesn't take much to get the wrong attention noticed and picked up. If you say the wrong thing or act the wrong way your going to be in deep kaka. I say if you go to those places your on your own. Travelling to these countries can be very risky, they run your ID or passport and somehow your name comes up because you clicked on some website 4 years ago you might never see daylight again.

I don't believe its the Canadian gov'ts responsibility what these other countries do with information they are provided. I think these lawsuits are ridiculous. If that Canadian blew up a school or something while visiting Syria and Canada didn't give them the information that might have prevented it then the blood is on Canada's hands. The Gov't is in a catch 22 situation. Should they be held accountable? Either way it's a dicy situation and mistakes will be made, unfortunately innocents will get caught up in it. Best not to put yourself in that situation, stay away from those wacked out countries whether you were born there or have family friends or weddings to attend your throwing the dice if you go there.





I know i was on a watch list,that was six years ten months ago.
I haven't moved on completely it is a work in progress.
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  #71  
Old 10-27-2017, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by purgatory.sv View Post
I know i was on a watch list,that was six years ten months ago.
I haven't moved on completely it is a work in progress.
Remain in your safe place under the bridge. They may be watching.
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  #72  
Old 10-27-2017, 12:26 PM
purgatory.sv purgatory.sv is offline
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Thank you for the good advice,can't wait till i get the clearance to leave!
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  #73  
Old 10-27-2017, 11:32 PM
HyperMOA HyperMOA is online now
 
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Originally Posted by CMichaud View Post
I don't want to comment on Vader but where has anyone said they only want to persecute "brown" people?

Why is this remotely about the colour of their skin?

Is there an actual indication of racial bias being applied by CSIS or the RCMP or are you bringing racism into this on pure supposition?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badgerbadger View Post
Seems that way, if they're brown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by midgetwaiter View Post
Just brown ones apparently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom55 View Post
Thanks Kevin for opening another opportunity for these boys to go off on a racist rant. You'd have thought we've had enough bigotry and hatred for this year.

A little pep rally for the you-must-be-white-to-be-a-Canadian crowd? Cheese and rice.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM View Post
What if their names were John Smith, Paul Brown and Frank Anderson?
Yes, CMichaud, I'm the one that brought race into this.

I'm not the racist. The racists are those that think the likes of Khadr deserve a payout, but don't stand up for the white "victims" like Vader. That is pure discrimination.
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  #74  
Old 10-28-2017, 12:37 AM
wildbill wildbill is offline
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I liked trurdumbs response, um ah ah ah um ah ah um ah ah ah ah um, someone needs to give our pm some speaking lessons, what an embarrassment!!!
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  #75  
Old 10-28-2017, 07:10 AM
Sporty Sporty is offline
 
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Originally Posted by HyperMOA View Post
Travis Vader is an innocent man who was held and tortured by our "justice systems" rulings. Do you guys think we should stroke him a cheque for 10 million too? Or are you so racist, that you think only brown people should be compensated?

A court ruling doesn't mean somebody is innocent.
Is he? Only he and his maker truly knows if he's innocent or not.

If he's even found innocent, he'll receive a payout and he should. If he's truly innocent.
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  #76  
Old 10-28-2017, 07:16 AM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMOA View Post
Travis Vader is an innocent man who was held and tortured by our "justice systems" rulings. Do you guys think we should stroke him a cheque for 10 million too? Or are you so racist, that you think only brown people should be compensated?

A court ruling doesn't mean somebody is innocent.
I'll admit that I haven't been keeping up with the news lately, what is Travis innocent of though?
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  #77  
Old 10-28-2017, 08:13 AM
Kagey2220 Kagey2220 is offline
 
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And David Millgard who was jailed for 22 years only gets 10million?
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  #78  
Old 10-28-2017, 08:41 AM
Supergrit Supergrit is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Kagey2220 View Post
And David Millgard who was jailed for 22 years only gets 10million?
Good point. I never read anything that Canadian information was responsible for their improsment. Could have been info about there lives here who they are why they do for job ect. Being that they are Syrian or from that area and travel between Canada and that area they probably were on a watch list. It’s is not a racist thing to be on a watch list it’s reality it wasn’t Norwegians that crashed jets into towers and threaten violence all the time.
I get the Middle East is these people’s home land but if I made it out from this place alive and came to beautiful peace full country like Canada I would not want to go back to the Middle East. Hang out in certain places and trouble will find you Canada can not be responsible for other country actions.
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  #79  
Old 11-15-2017, 04:14 PM
4K3OGH 4K3OGH is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics...lion-1.4372689

Under Cretien and Martin's watch the liberals tortured 3 innocents and are now maying $31MM.
Sign me up! You can break some of my bones for that kind of cash!
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  #80  
Old 11-15-2017, 04:51 PM
Bigwoodsman Bigwoodsman is online now
 
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Sign me up! You can break some of my bones for that kind of cash!
We’re only seeing the beginning of the special interest groups and their lawyers. They’re all lining us to get their share of the golden goose eggs. All because our elected politicians and our appointed senate don’t have the balls to stand up to these financial terrorists. Our legal system set a precedent with awarding Kahdar, his windfall will be the downfall of Canada.

BW
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  #81  
Old 11-15-2017, 05:35 PM
79ford 79ford is offline
 
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I remember how many people in canada and on this forum wanted that omar guy deported to guantanamo, and all the otber people saying we should be i terogating these guys with all means necessary etc etc.


If anyone bothered to read the laws and follow them at the time vs being dumb the government wouldnt be getting slapped with lawsuits all the time.


All this garbage is also a byproduct of 'the war on terror'..... which in itself is a costly endeavor which is also absolutely poi tless.


Hahaha, people are so silly. Good luck with the war on terror and all the benefits its bringing to a cou try that has never really had a middle eastern terror attack.

Anyone ever ask why we are running our guys/gals through the wringer spending billions and billions of dollars on a war that has nothing to do with us?
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  #82  
Old 11-15-2017, 05:39 PM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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Originally Posted by 79ford View Post
I remember how many people in canada and on this forum wanted that omar guy deported to guantanamo, and all the otber people saying we should be i terogating these guys with all means necessary etc etc.


If anyone bothered to read the laws and follow them at the time vs being dumb the government wouldnt be getting slapped with lawsuits all the time.


All this garbage is also a byproduct of 'the war on terror'..... which in itself is a costly endeavor which is also absolutely poi tless.


Hahaha, people are so silly. Good luck with the war on terror and all the benefits its bringing to a cou try that has never really had a middle eastern terror attack.

Anyone ever ask why we are running our guys/gals through the wringer spending billions and billions of dollars on a war that has nothing to do with us?
I agree.

The war on terror was and is a farce. If any of today’s governments was serious about combatting terrorism while maintaining individual freedoms, they would make military service mandatory and would require all citizens of age to carry a firearm at all times, and trained in proper use of.

It may sound like an oxymoron, freedom and mandatory, but I say short term pain for long term gain.

There would be less vehicles stolen in AB, at the least.
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  #83  
Old 11-15-2017, 06:48 PM
79ford 79ford is offline
 
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You guys do realize the canadian government has spent 12-18 billion on the war on terror right? A few million in payouts as a result is chump change.


On a side note.... 158 canadians died in afgahnistan fight a war on 'terror'


Terror attacks in canada? Whats that a big goose egg? Lol, more people get murdered in edmonton every month than canadas entire terror death toll for that last 150 years.


For having a 18 billion war that encompasses all kinds of greasy tactics not found in normal war racking up a few million bucks in lawsuits isnt too bad. Its actually pretty good.
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  #84  
Old 11-15-2017, 06:59 PM
Ranets Ranets is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
These people were not held by our government, they were not tortured by our government, so they should be suing the authorities that held them and tortured them. And if you don't want to risk being held by those authorities, then stay out of those countries.
Exactly!!
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  #85  
Old 11-15-2017, 07:10 PM
greendrake greendrake is offline
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics...lion-1.4372689

Under Cretien and Martin's watch the liberals tortured 3 innocents and are now maying $31MM.
Why are you blaming the Liberals when Steven Harper and Jason Kenny were running the show then?
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  #86  
Old 11-15-2017, 07:13 PM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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Why are you blaming the Liberals when Steven Harper and Jason Kenny were running the show then?
The liberals were in power when the men were imprisoned.
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  #87  
Old 11-15-2017, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by purgatory.sv View Post
I know i was on a watch list,that was six years ten months ago.
I haven't moved on completely it is a work in progress.
Perfectly understood.
This amount of money seems a little steep to me
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