Code red

[purgatory.sv]

The edmonton fire department is funded buy edmonton tax ?
It is a good investment.

The total budget for both expense and benefits is part of the tax base?

[cranky]

When they called for a ambulance for me 8 months ago i was at my kids place about halfway to Toefield. Fire got there first then the Police. They sent a contracted to EMS ambulance from FT Sask. Closest they had out there.

They got lost for a bit before finding me and by the time i got to the hospital it was over two hours. I suffered what the Docs called a massive heart attack. Im guessing partly, but not all was because of the time delay, that i have considerable heart damage which wont get any better. I now live with Congestive Heart Failure.

But i dont hold that against anyone its just the way it is and im thankful to all that took care of me. Its a thankless job often im sure.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by nube

I suspect if you are getting $1000 or $4000 fines you are doing something pretty wrong and not trying to work with them but maybe a rural setting they are just out to get a few more dollars in the coffers more so than try and make things right but who knows.

This was not a fine, it was a bill for fire services - itemized for how many trucks and how many men times the rate per hour for each.

[airbornedeerhunter]

Family member is EMS in the city, just talked to him---BULL SQUAT!!!! No such emergency in effect!

[RZR]

Originally Posted by bobalong

Be careful out there, my son just text me and Edmonton just went on Code Red......no ambulances available.

It happens lots in Lethbridge as well

[trophybook]

Saving needle victims such a shame . Just got home from downtown had supper at the larond tons of ambulance just parked in alla doing sfa

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by RZR

It happens lots in Lethbridge as well

It is pretty common in Edmonton to, it can come and go pretty quickly, or hang on for a while. What is always consistent is that there will some losers on here that have to say/imply your lying about something that was just posted FYI.

[jmedical]

Originally Posted by airbornedeerhunter

Family member is EMS in the city, just talked to him---BULL SQUAT!!!! No such emergency in effect!

I am a Paramedic and currently on duty. Code red is a real code for limited resources and they use multiple colors yellow, orange, red. Code red was called tonight, how long did it last? I dont know to be honest. Most likely minutes. Happens quite a bit. Typically last minutes as protocols are in place to quickly make trucks available and they “flex” in rural resources and ambulances are shuffled to fill holes.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by airbornedeerhunter

Family member is EMS in the city, just talked to him---BULL SQUAT!!!! No such emergency in effect!

It was posted 4 hours ago skippy,

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

When someone called the fire dept. to my place they sent me a bill for over $1000.
Heard of another fellow who got a bill of over $4000.

Maybe the difference of the major urban centre vs. rural volunteer dept.?

Difference is public vs private. Some areas like Onoway/Alberta Beach are examples you can look up.

[airbornedeerhunter]

Originally Posted by bobalong

It was posted 4 hours ago skippy,

May have been posted 4 hrs ago skippy, but it was never in effect this evening at all.

OK Skippy?

[Scottmisfits]

Originally Posted by airbornedeerhunter

May have been posted 4 hrs ago skippy, but it was never in effect this evening at all.

OK Skippy?

Just a few posts up the guy, who was on duty disagrees with you.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by NW Tradegunner

From what I understand is that the ambulance personnel (all of them) cannot leave the hospital until the patient they brought in is admitted and in one of the observation rooms! Then they can go pick up their assignment. If there's a line up; tough luck! They wait!

I can speak from first hand experience that this is true.

[blacknorthernjk]

Originally Posted by nube

Fire is actually there before an Ambulance on most calls. I think the stats are 67% but I could be wrong.
They will do almost anything an ambulance can but the main thing they can't do is give the drugs other than Naloxone.
A duel system like in Edmonton is the best care you can have. Fire has more stations and is usually closer to a lot of calls and if not available the next station will pick up the call which will be a few more min. away.

On a major call like a code the main Ambulance will be dispatched and usually a PRU fast response supervisor and then another ambulance.
I find a Min. of 5 people on a code call is best and there is a lot of work to do. It takes a team effort to get the job done to give the best service and chance for the PT. to suvive

Almost anything an ambulance can? Hmmm...that seems a stretch.

[58thecat]

Where is Skippy?
He has the answers.....

[RZR]

Originally Posted by nube

Fire is actually there before an Ambulance on most calls. I think the stats are 67% but I could be wrong.
They will do almost anything an ambulance can but the main thing they can't do is give the drugs other than Naloxone.
A duel system like in Edmonton is the best care you can have. Fire has more stations and is usually closer to a lot of calls and if not available the next station will pick up the call which will be a few more min. away.

On a major call like a code the main Ambulance will be dispatched and usually a PRU fast response supervisor and then another ambulance.
I find a Min. of 5 people on a code call is best and there is a lot of work to do. It takes a team effort to get the job done to give the best service and chance for the PT. to suvive

Lethbridge is a integrated fire/ems as well and that system is bar none a way better run system then AHS ever thought of being. Everyone is emt or paramedic certified, so if no ambulance is available at least there is a fire truck on its way.

[Scottmisfits]

Originally Posted by blacknorthernjk

Almost anything an ambulance can? Hmmm...that seems a stretch.

My cousin is on one of the rural county emergency response teams and that’s how they run as well. It makes a lot of sense to do it that way,, but I think he was referring to their skill set, not the capability with the equipment. An ambulance is far better equipped than a fire truck for medical situations.

[Sundancefisher]

So sounds like in really busy periods there is occasionally times where for short periods ambulances are in short supply. Sounds like in the low minutes versus hours like I read the first post to be trying to say.

[CanadianPsycho]

EMT/PCP here

Code red is when there is one or less ambulances available in a given region. It happens so often these days that it barely raises an eye-brow. When I was in on practicum in Calgary, over 1 month I think they had at least 10 code reds. Alot of them are stupid calls, you'd be amazed how often ambulances are called for someone with the sniffles, a stubbed toe, leg cramps (yes really, I personally attended that call), or a tooth ache. Any major call however will have an ambulance diverted off a routine call for it though. and usually when one place goes code red outlying ambulances will be brought in. For example, when Calgary goes Code Red ambulances will be brought in from Okotoks, Airdrie, Cochrane, etc.

One of the major issues is that once we pick up a pt we cannot leave them until care is accepted by equal or higher level of care. At large hospitals (Foothills, PLC, etc.) there is several ambulances arriving every hour along with walk in pts. Thats alot of people coming through and the beds fill up. Critical pts will be seen immediately, but if you bring in someone with a cold you will most likely be waiting quite some time in the hall. Meaning your ambulance is out of service. Sometimes one crew will monitor several patients while waiting, but that is dependent on the service and what brings the patients in.

Alberta actually has quite a few private ambulance services. For strictly EMS there is Guardian in rocky and whitecourt, Prairie EMS in the North East, Associated Ambulance, Stettler Ambulance, Caroline Ambulance and most Reserves run their own ambulances. For integrated services (both EMS and fire provided by one company) there is Strathcona Fire, Lethbridge Fire, Red Deer Emergency Services, and Fort MacMurray. And in most major cities fire fighters are trained to at minimum EMR level allowing them to at least support the pt until EMS arrives while not the same level of care it keeps people alive until EMS can transport or provide further interventions. fire is usually only dispatched to high level calls (think man down, cardiac arrests, difficulty breathing, major trauma events, etc). Almost everywhere else is AHS, which in my opinion runs a decent show. Could it be better, absolutely, but it does a decent enough job with the resources available.

Please forgive any rambling or weird writing. Just got off a 14hr shift.

[RBI]

Originally Posted by CanadianPsycho

EMT/PCP here

Code red is when there is one or less ambulances available in a given region. It happens so often these days that it barely raises an eye-brow. When I was in on practicum in Calgary, over 1 month I think they had at least 10 code reds. Alot of them are stupid calls, you'd be amazed how often ambulances are called for someone with the sniffles, a stubbed toe, leg cramps (yes really, I personally attended that call), or a tooth ache. Any major call however will have an ambulance diverted off a routine call for it though. and usually when one place goes code red outlying ambulances will be brought in. For example, when Calgary goes Code Red ambulances will be brought in from Okotoks, Airdrie, Cochrane, etc.

One of the major issues is that once we pick up a pt we cannot leave them until care is accepted by equal or higher level of care. At large hospitals (Foothills, PLC, etc.) there is several ambulances arriving every hour along with walk in pts. Thats alot of people coming through and the beds fill up. Critical pts will be seen immediately, but if you bring in someone with a cold you will most likely be waiting quite some time in the hall. Meaning your ambulance is out of service. Sometimes one crew will monitor several patients while waiting, but that is dependent on the service and what brings the patients in.

Alberta actually has quite a few private ambulance services. For strictly EMS there is Guardian in rocky and whitecourt, Prairie EMS in the North East, Associated Ambulance, Stettler Ambulance, Caroline Ambulance and most Reserves run their own ambulances. For integrated services (both EMS and fire provided by one company) there is Strathcona Fire, Lethbridge Fire, Red Deer Emergency Services, and Fort MacMurray. And in most major cities fire fighters are trained to at minimum EMR level allowing them to at least support the pt until EMS arrives while not the same level of care it keeps people alive until EMS can transport or provide further interventions. fire is usually only dispatched to high level calls (think man down, cardiac arrests, difficulty breathing, major trauma events, etc). Almost everywhere else is AHS, which in my opinion runs a decent show. Could it be better, absolutely, but it does a decent enough job with the resources available.

Please forgive any rambling or weird writing. Just got off a 14hr shift.

And thank you for that .

[mattthegorby]

As a former EMT, I agree with all the above written by those currently in the EMS trenches.

My take on coverage is that it would be difficult to run an ambulance service economically without having fairly frequent times where resources are stretched and cooperation with other agencies like neighboring ambulance services, hospitals, search and rescue, ski patrols, and especially fire are needed to fill in the gaps and work together.

You can look at general trends and try and staff for typically busy periods, but to echo others comments, you can have a couple motor vehicle accidents go down at once and 3 people with the sniffles and suddenly all cars are tied up and dispatches need to juggle.

That being said, EMS is hard work and the turnover rate is generally pretty high and this does not help staffing.

Matt

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

[RZR]

Originally Posted by CanadianPsycho

EMT/PCP here

Code red is when there is one or less ambulances available in a given region. It happens so often these days that it barely raises an eye-brow. When I was in on practicum in Calgary, over 1 month I think they had at least 10 code reds. Alot of them are stupid calls, you'd be amazed how often ambulances are called for someone with the sniffles, a stubbed toe, leg cramps (yes really, I personally attended that call), or a tooth ache. Any major call however will have an ambulance diverted off a routine call for it though. and usually when one place goes code red outlying ambulances will be brought in. For example, when Calgary goes Code Red ambulances will be brought in from Okotoks, Airdrie, Cochrane, etc.

One of the major issues is that once we pick up a pt we cannot leave them until care is accepted by equal or higher level of care. At large hospitals (Foothills, PLC, etc.) there is several ambulances arriving every hour along with walk in pts. Thats alot of people coming through and the beds fill up. Critical pts will be seen immediately, but if you bring in someone with a cold you will most likely be waiting quite some time in the hall. Meaning your ambulance is out of service. Sometimes one crew will monitor several patients while waiting, but that is dependent on the service and what brings the patients in.

Then you get the ones that are looking for a ride from one end of the city to the other end and when they want to be dropped off before they get to the hospital.Then they get belligerent when they are told they have to go to the hospital for treatment, and there is nothing wrong with them. Total abuse of the system.

[blacknorthernjk]

Originally Posted by Scottmisfits

My cousin is on one of the rural county emergency response teams and that’s how they run as well. It makes a lot of sense to do it that way,, but I think he was referring to their skill set, not the capability with the equipment. An ambulance is far better equipped than a fire truck for medical situations.

Rest assured an EFD firefighter does not have the same skill set as ACP or PCP paramedics. No requirement to maintain even the basic College licensing to be an EFD firefighter. Meanwhile your AHS Edmonton Ambulance service practitioners are required to re licence annually with mandatory annual educational requirements and individaul practitioner insurance.

[Scottmisfits]

Ok, city, I get that. But rural, he is an EMR first and then got his fire training. What he told me is that the majority in his county are both.

[blacknorthernjk]

Originally Posted by Scottmisfits

Ok, city, I get that. But rural, he is an EMR first and then got his fire training. What he told me is that the majority in his county are both.

Truth.
Many rural services are integrated EMS/Fire. City of Edmonton is not. My original comment was directed towards Nube whom stated EFD was capable or doing almost anything an ambulance can, but I cannot for the life of me recall the last time I saw an EFD firefighter start an IV, intubate, decompress a chest, apply a traction splint etc. The skill sets are entirely different and they have the simplest most basic of life saving skills. Your AHS practitioners are highly trained and skilled with regular competency evaluations

[Scottmisfits]

Thanks for that clarification

[Kristopher10]

Originally Posted by nube

It's more like $580 or more. If you can't pay it then the tax payer picks up the tab....
You can't turn down Patients either if they want to go to the hospital.
Lots of stories of certain types of people that want a ride across town and use it as a taxi service.... what can you do?
Then the tax payer picks up the tab for it....

The wife got a bill last month and it was $383 I believe. The worst part about it is she was having an anxiety attack (a far cry from being hospital/ambulance worthy), someone else called an ambulance and when the ambulance arrived she was told that she HAD to go to the hospital because she was pregnant.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by blacknorthernjk

Truth.
but I cannot for the life of me recall the last time I saw an EFD firefighter start an IV, intubate, decompress a chest, apply a traction splint etc.

An EMT can do all that?

[Iron Brew]

Is there some sort of support for the EMT's etc. in regards to mental health? A friend from high school wound up taking his own life after years of ambulance work. Small town. Assumed to be PTSD. Very sad. He transported my dad when dad had a major stroke. I was never able to see him and thank him before he died.

[Ken07AOVette]

Fairly close to here, let's say within a couple hours, one of the biggest problems is people taking advantage of the Ambulance system to ridiculous levels. Want a ride into town? A call to 911 with 'my chest hurts' then walk out of the hospital into the bar, casino, cousin's house, whatever. It happens all the time, costing taxpayers countless hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars over the years. Everyone is aware of it, yet it continues and we get laughed at. Code Red happens far too often for no reason at all.
FCLightning the level of care given depends on the County requirements and training, but afaik none of us can administer drugs. The Paramedics can in the Ambulance.
There are quite a few fully trained members in our hall, last count I think was 23. A few of them are actually employed full time at the Wainwright Army Base as firefighters/EMS and more will be joining them from here in February likely.