Province is completely against handgun hunting.

[Scar270]

Ok, many of you know I've been fighting to get the "No hunting with Pistols and Revolvers" clause removed from the hunting regulations.

Well it turns out currently the actual wildlife statute says:

10 A restricted firearm or a prohibited firearm of a kind that is a handgun for whose possession the holding of a licence and a registration certificate is required by the Criminal Code (Canada), except where a person
(a) uses the handgun to kill an animal caught in a trap, or
(b) is in possession of that handgun only for a purpose incidental to that use or the reasonable expectation of that use.

So basically antique status handguns have been legal to hunt with, I really regret not being smart enough to have looked the actual statute up before. I took the regs at face value.

However I finally got the Provincial government to realize that they do have some jurisdiction, and it's not just federal law restricting us. So now instead of dropping that clause, it sounds like SRD is looking hard at making it a complete ban on hunting of big game with handguns.

If anyone on here actually would like to see us ever get to have handgun hunting in this province, right now would be a good time to start hitting up your MLA's about this. We are on our way into a provincial election, so they might even answer their phones right now.

Convince them that if they are reviewing the law it would be better to remove it then tighten it up.

Thanks.

Ya, I heard that scar...it's sad when F&W is looking for ways to take hunting opportunity away from us. I didn't have a clue about antique handguns until I talked with you last year...it was very enlightening. Too bad F&W wouldn't have someone explain the facts to them about antique handguns.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Scar270

.

However I finally got the Provincial government to realize that they do have some jurisdiction, and it's not just federal law restricting us. So now instead of dropping that clause, it sounds like SRD is looking hard at making it a complete ban on hunting of big game with handguns.

Good job. So are you saying you made things worse?

[Scar270]

Thats exactly what I'm saying okotokian. On the other hand at least they finally accept it's their issue, so lobbying by the members here might actually do some good, they can't just brush it off as a federal issue.

Good to know I have enough influence to get a law made, too bad it was to stop me instead of allow me.

Interesting that in my discussion with a SRD guy I was told that my cause basically doesn't have enough people interested in it to get it through, so I pointed out that just myself managed to get a law created, so why couldn't I get one repealed. I think he saw my point.

So if anyone say's one person can't make a difference, they are wrong.

[Scar270]

Yeah Sheephunter, I just wish they would have looked at more details before jumping on this. I did get a chance to explain some on the phone today, but they have no idea what the capabilities of some antique handguns are, and that they can be very powerful and very humane.

They can't remove the law because it would take too much research, but they seem to be able to create one with no research. I pointed that out.

[Pudelpointer]

Who is bringing the law forward? The minister for SRD? Does it not have to go through the legislature? This should take a few months at least, should it not?

Or are they jamming into the regular 2 year regulations process?

As for their assertion that there is no support; what about the support of the AFGA??? We passed your resolution 2 years in a row - and this year WILL be 3.


Can you give us details on who to write to - which ministers?

[fish_e_o]

i would like a 22 pistol for chickens! that would be awesome!

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Who is bringing the law forward? The minister for SRD? Does it not have to go through the legislature? This should take a few months at least, should it not?

Or are they jamming into the regular 2 year regulations process?

As for their assertion that there is no support; what about the support of the AFGA??? We passed your resolution 2 years in a row - and this year WILL be 3.


Can you give us details on who to write to - which ministers?

I'd say the miniter of SRD and cc Rob Corrigan. It sounds like it will come into effect for 2012. Funny how new laws take two years unless SRD wants it to happen faster

[Scar270]

It's coming from SRD, which I guess would make it from Minister Oberle.

My limited understanding is the current clause is in the Wildlife act, not regulations, so it would take the leg to pass this. However the Leg was passing laws in 2 weeks this fall, so it's not a long process if they don't want it to be.

I'd suggest writing to Danielle Smith, and talking to your local Wildrose candidate as well, since they could be in by the time this comes up, and either way, I think they would be receptive to handgun hunting if they felt it had lots of support.

Probably letters to Minister Oberle, Danielle Smith, your local MLA, and your local Wildrose candidate if they are not the above would be a good start.

Personally my feeling is there are a few SRD staff who don't like the idea of handgun hunting, are not worried about the actual details, and they have a current government, that based on the laws I've seen come out lately, will likely be very supportive of further restricting handgun usage. I say that based on the other nanny state type laws they have been passing, I hope I am wrong.

I also think I may have ****ed off the wrong people, I feel slightly like this is a law intended to make me shut up and go away. Note that I don't feel that all of SRD feels that way, or even the majority of their staff. I actually appreciate the dialogue I have with many SRD staff, and appreciate the work they do, even when we are in disagreement, however this particular one has the feeling of something personal in it for some reason. Maybe just because this issue is very close to my heart, but my gut tells me it's more then that.

With the crappy response I received on this resolution this year, I wrote a letter to the minister, and also Doug Butler, the AFGA hunting chair went to bat for me, and we forced them to deal with this issue, this is how they chose to deal with it.

[Scar270]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I'd say the miniter of SRD and cc Rob Corrigan. It sounds like it will come into effect for 2012. Funny how new laws take two years unless SRD wants it to happen faster

Good point sheephunter. Small regulation changes can take years to research and develop and get stakeholder input.

This law they only finally accepted as their jurisdiction within the last month, and they are going to push it through ASAP.

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by Scar270

I also think I may have ****ed off the wrong people, I feel slightly like this is a law intended to make me shut up and go away.

LOL. I can't imagine that is it.

Will take some time tonight to write some letters. FWIW this WILL BE an uphill battle. The ignorance level about handgun hunting is pervasive. Just the other night at a meeting, I overheard a club member (who is an active handgun shooter) flat out say that hunting with handguns should not be allowed - they are not accurate enough.

It was our Christmas meeting so I refrained from pointing out the ignorance of his opinion, but I will be discussing it with him soon.

Uphill or not, I think it is a battle worth fighting!

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

i would like a 22 pistol for chickens! that would be awesome!

Then write a letter!

[Scar270]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

LOL. I can't imagine that is it.

Will take some time tonight to write some letters. FWIW this WILL BE an uphill battle. The ignorance level about handgun hunting is pervasive. Just the other night at a meeting, I overheard a club member (who is an active handgun shooter) flat out say that hunting with handguns should not be allowed - they are not accurate enough.

It was our Christmas meeting so I refrained from pointing out the ignorance of his opinion, but I will be discussing it with him soon.

Uphill or not, I think it is a battle worth fighting!

Yeah, it will be uphill, there is a lot of ignorance on handgun hunting. Explaining that a glock 9mm is not the only handgun out there, and there are handguns quite capable of making 200 yard shots on game. I have a pistol in 308 winchester.

Not to mention most handgun hunting is like archery, it is just more of a close range sport.

[huntinstuff]

Handgun hunting makes sense.

You can hunt with a .45 colt rifle, but not a .45 colt handgun.......?

Obviously, we need change at SRD if they do ANYTHING to restrict the type of firearm allowed for hunting.

Alberta. Of all places in Canada.....

They have no idea WHY we can't hunt with handguns, just that we CANT.....

Shoot a grouse with a .22 revolver or a .22 cooey rifle. No difference.

I support handgun hunting 100%.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

LOL. I can't imagine that is it.

Will take some time tonight to write some letters. FWIW this WILL BE an uphill battle. The ignorance level about handgun hunting is pervasive. Just the other night at a meeting, I overheard a club member (who is an active handgun shooter) flat out say that hunting with handguns should not be allowed - they are not accurate enough.

It was our Christmas meeting so I refrained from pointing out the ignorance of his opinion, but I will be discussing it with him soon.

Uphill or not, I think it is a battle worth fighting!

Strange, I seem to remember watching buck masters handgun steel matches years ago before computers, and those guys were deadly on silhouettes.

I also have done some silhouette shooting woith hand guns, and they are infact accurate enough - the shooter is the main variable, same as bows and rifles.
Cat

[huntinstuff]

Hunters need to be united.

I dont care if you hunt with a rifle,shotgun, bow, spear, or slingshot. If you are a hunter, you are good with me.

The minute we all band together is the minute things will change in our favour. There are hundreds of thousands of us in Alberta that own guns/bows and hunt.

Do you think the government or those who want to be government would listen if we showed our support ? You bet.

Personally, I think we have too many organizations. We are a fractured group that needs some glue. And we need those who are in positions in these groups to spend some time getting hunters to band together, rather than just promoting their own agendas.

[Scar270]

I agree huntinstuff, we need to be all looking to increase hunting opportunities, not decrease them. As long as the wildlife populations can sustain the tag numbers we should all be supporting any methods.

That's one thing I'm really happy with AFGA about right now, the hunting chair Doug Butler doesn't care who wants the opportunity, he will fight for it.

[762Russian]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

Handgun hunting makes sense.

You can hunt with a .45 colt rifle, but not a .45 colt handgun.......?

Obviously, we need change at SRD if they do ANYTHING to restrict the type of firearm allowed for hunting.

Alberta. Of all places in Canada.....

They have no idea WHY we can't hunt with handguns, just that we CANT.....

Shoot a grouse with a .22 revolver or a .22 cooey rifle. No difference.

I support handgun hunting 100%.

My own concern for it would be the people behind the trigger. Goal of the hunter is to take down an animal as quickly and clean as possible, and handguns, while deadly, can't produce the velocity of a long gun. Less velocity is less accuracy, and less stopping power coming out of the end of the barrel.

Myself I would not want to see it used on large game because while you might be a crack shot and able to take the arse off a flea at 50 paces, the next guy down the line might be able to hit serving tray at 20, if it's a good day and he doesn't have the sun in his eyes. Rifles are stable, have better performance at uncertain ranges, and hit harder.

That said, I would like to see it allowed for small game. A .22LR revolver at hand when out Gophering would be great for popping the dumb buggers that stand up ten feet away. A .22LR hitting a grouse out of a rifle or a pistol won't have any demonstrable difference on such a small target.

Thinking on a bit more before I post, I actually can see handguns being used on bigger game, with certain rules; they would have to be demonstrably powerful enough, with the right bullet and charge, and the hunter needs to be aware that they are hunting in the same fashion as a bowhunter; getting as close as absolutely possible before taking the shot, and knowing when NOT to take the shot as well.

[NUK SOO KOW]

I also support Handgun hunting. I think it would be similar to bowhunting. You would have to get close, or use a tree stand or blind as well. I think it would be a riot. And who wouldnt want to blast some gophers with a pistol? I'm tired of punching holes in paper. To me a gun is tool. Doesnt matter be it a rifle, shotgun, handgun, or bb gun, or even a slingshot. They all require safe use. What does it matter what somebody hunts with? As long as the tool will get the job done(big enough caliber for intended game) and used safley and respectivley, it should not matter.

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by 762Russian

Thinking on a bit more before I post, I actually can see handguns being used on bigger game, with certain rules; they would have to be demonstrably powerful enough, with the right bullet and charge, and the hunter needs to be aware that they are hunting in the same fashion as a bowhunter; getting as close as absolutely possible before taking the shot, and knowing when NOT to take the shot as well.

Whenever this is brought up, we hear the same concerns: We don't want people running around shooting at deer with their Glocks! Handguns are not accurate enough! Handguns are not powerful enough! Handguns are dangerous and scary!

There is a simple solution to your (and a lot of other people's) concerns (well, except for the scary part):

1. Regulate what are considered appropriate cartridges (ft/lbs, minimum calibres, whatever...) for the species in question.

2. Create a "________ Handgun License" for whatever species, deer, elk, moose, antelope, etc. with which you can ONLY hunt with a handgun.

IMO a Handgun specific hunting license would weed out those who are not serious; most hunters feel limited while hunting with a rifle, so if you tell them "yes, you CAN hunt a WT Buck with a handgun, but if you want to you will ONLY be able to use a handgun for hunting WT Bucks that season" the vast majority of hunters will say "no way".

Again, IMO the only people who would bother are those of us who thrive on challenge. The type of people who practice diligently all year so they can make the shot when it is required. These are the same people who will hunt with a longbow or recurve with no sights, or drag a flintlock around the mountains hoping the powder stays dry.... enough.

Most people do not hunt with traditional archery equipment, or muskets, or flintlocks, because it makes killing an animal much more difficult.

What about it Scar; would you forego hunting with a rifle to try taking a deer with a handgun? (I am betting he would - cause so would I)

Eloquent solution to a minor issue.

[huntinstuff]

Handguns work just fine on big game

The only limitation should be in the personal choice of the hunter.

[Scar270]

Originally Posted by 762Russian

My own concern for it would be the people behind the trigger. Goal of the hunter is to take down an animal as quickly and clean as possible, and handguns, while deadly, can't produce the velocity of a long gun. Less velocity is less accuracy, and less stopping power coming out of the end of the barrel.

Myself I would not want to see it used on large game because while you might be a crack shot and able to take the arse off a flea at 50 paces, the next guy down the line might be able to hit serving tray at 20, if it's a good day and he doesn't have the sun in his eyes. Rifles are stable, have better performance at uncertain ranges, and hit harder.

That said, I would like to see it allowed for small game. A .22LR revolver at hand when out Gophering would be great for popping the dumb buggers that stand up ten feet away. A .22LR hitting a grouse out of a rifle or a pistol won't have any demonstrable difference on such a small target.

Thinking on a bit more before I post, I actually can see handguns being used on bigger game, with certain rules; they would have to be demonstrably powerful enough, with the right bullet and charge, and the hunter needs to be aware that they are hunting in the same fashion as a bowhunter; getting as close as absolutely possible before taking the shot, and knowing when NOT to take the shot as well.

Whats to stop people from making 500 yard shots with 30-30win in a lever gun?

[Scar270]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Whenever this is brought up, we hear the same concerns: We don't want people running around shooting at deer with their Glocks! Handguns are not accurate enough! Handguns are not powerful enough! Handguns are dangerous and scary!

There is a simple solution to your (and a lot of other people's) concerns (well, except for the scary part):

1. Regulate what are considered appropriate cartridges (ft/lbs, minimum calibres, whatever...) for the species in question.

2. Create a "________ Handgun License" for whatever species, deer, elk, moose, antelope, etc. with which you can ONLY hunt with a handgun.

IMO a Handgun specific hunting license would weed out those who are not serious; most hunters feel limited while hunting with a rifle, so if you tell them "yes, you CAN hunt a WT Buck with a handgun, but if you want to you will ONLY be able to use a handgun for hunting WT Bucks that season" the vast majority of hunters will say "no way".

Again, IMO the only people who would bother are those of us who thrive on challenge. The type of people who practice diligently all year so they can make the shot when it is required. These are the same people who will hunt with a longbow or recurve with no sights, or drag a flintlock around the mountains hoping the powder stays dry.... enough.

Most people do not hunt with traditional archery equipment, or muskets, or flintlocks, because it makes killing an animal much more difficult.

What about it Scar; would you forego hunting with a rifle to try taking a deer with a handgun? (I am betting he would - cause so would I)

Eloquent solution to a minor issue.

I would take a handgun only tag in a heartbeat. I dont agree with that restriction, but I would take the tag if that was the option for sure.

[duffy4]

It seems as though for a few years AF&GA resolution dealing with removing handguns from the list of prohibited items has been met with the same response.

"Handgun legislation is a federal responsibility and there is nothing we the province can do"
Or something like that.

I figured this year AF&GA should propose a different "twist" on the resolution.


"Where as handgun legislation is Federal responsibility"

"And Where as the province of Alberta has some handgun rules in the wildlife act'

"Be it resolved that AF&GA request that the province get out of the federal Governments business and remove handguns from their list of prohibited items."


How could the provincial Gov't say no to that request?

[philthygeezer]

I think petitioning for a test case would be best. Make it for rimfire single shots and single action revolvers with a barrel length of over six inches and must be worn outside coat on holster or cross draw sling. Transport to and from WMU must be as per other restricteds, and an ATT must be granted for each hunting trip.

Rimfire prevents any rhetoric about dirty Harry or the wild west from the gun control idiots. No yakking about powerful concealed handguns on twitter.

What do you think?

[Scar270]

Duffy That has been kinda the point. If its not a provincial issue like they say, drop the law. However they finally decided it is their issue, and they want nothing to do with handgun hunting.

[Scar270]

Geezer, those kinda regulations would be when dealing with the feds on carrying restricted firearms. First the province has to allow it for hunting.

[moosemad]

Originally Posted by philthygeezer

I think petitioning for a test case would be best. Make it for rimfire single shots and single action revolvers with a barrel length of over six inches and must be worn outside coat on holster or cross draw sling. Transport to and from WMU must be as per other restricteds, and an ATT must be granted for each hunting trip.

Rimfire prevents any rhetoric about dirty Harry or the wild west from the gun control idiots. No yakking about powerful concealed handguns on twitter.

What do you think?

The "gun control idiots" and anti's really don't look at what restrictions are being applied. All they look at is there are people running around with handguns in the forest shooting everything they see and it would only be a matter of time before one of them used their gun at 7-11 to get a free coffee on the way to the hunt. Sad but true.
Having said that I will still send my letter.

[32-40win]

I would sure support the handgun hunting allowance. Not sure I could afford all the Contender frames and barrels I'd want though.

[PoppaW]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Whenever this is brought up, we hear the same concerns: We don't want people running around shooting at deer with their Glocks! Handguns are not accurate enough! Handguns are not powerful enough! Handguns are dangerous and scary!

There is a simple solution to your (and a lot of other people's) concerns (well, except for the scary part):

1. Regulate what are considered appropriate cartridges (ft/lbs, minimum calibres, whatever...) for the species in question.

2. Create a "________ Handgun License" for whatever species, deer, elk, moose, antelope, etc. with which you can ONLY hunt with a handgun.

IMO a Handgun specific hunting license would weed out those who are not serious; most hunters feel limited while hunting with a rifle, so if you tell them "yes, you CAN hunt a WT Buck with a handgun, but if you want to you will ONLY be able to use a handgun for hunting WT Bucks that season" the vast majority of hunters will say "no way".

Again, IMO the only people who would bother are those of us who thrive on challenge. The type of people who practice diligently all year so they can make the shot when it is required. These are the same people who will hunt with a longbow or recurve with no sights, or drag a flintlock around the mountains hoping the powder stays dry.... enough.

Most people do not hunt with traditional archery equipment, or muskets, or flintlocks, because it makes killing an animal much more difficult.

What about it Scar; would you forego hunting with a rifle to try taking a deer with a handgun? (I am betting he would - cause so would I)

Eloquent solution to a minor issue.

This power qualification would be hard to do. We don't want to say under 45 is a no go as a lot of old antiques are 44 and 41 etc. Most 45 colt antiques are not sought after up here as they need licensing.
As it applies to Restricted modern guns, Some of the same problems apply. I hate to make rules but we have the bigger than 23 caliber for rifles. I figure for big game 10mm and up works if done right. We would have to get rid of the ATT. YES! And if done right the law would read 'restricted' and not say hand gun or pistol so we could use AR's also. Thats a gopher popper.

I have forwarded this thread to Santa. Tis the season.