Blue Jays--what's wrong

[Rio56]

Is it time to trade Vladdy or Bo .. new coach .. top brass
not working now so

What's the answer ?

[glen moa]

Pitching and fielding are good.
Hitting is no good.

Get new Batting coaches
lack of concentration at the plate.
Not taking the game seriously.
Sit players that aren’t hitting.

It’s in their head. But they took the money to play.
You take the money you better show up.

[riden]

Originally Posted by glen moa

Pitching and fielding are good.
Hitting is no good.

Get new Batting coaches
lack of concentration at the plate.
Not taking the game seriously.
Sit players that aren’t hitting.

It’s in their head. But they took the money to play.
You take the money you better show up.

I agree. They choke bad. Dismal with RISP and it’s an adventure every time they bring in a bullpen pitcher.

Vlad is far too concerned with his Instagram poses. I think his defence in early Spring was a lot more photogenic.

[Rio56]

Originally Posted by riden

I agree. They choke bad. Dismal with RISP and it’s an adventure every time they bring in a bullpen pitcher.

Vlad is far too concerned with his Instagram poses. I think his defence in early Spring was a lot more photogenic.

look at his new hair cut .. I think the razzle dazzle is wearing off and time to put out ...
He's not producing anywhere near to his prospect/potential rating ...

[Twisted Canuck]

They left 12 runners in scoring position against Red Sox. That's the whole story.

[trapperdodge]

The team in MLB with the largest fan base. Owned by with money.
The owners don't care if they win.

[Curtsyneil]

So what’s wrong with the jays!! The way they run there team is a joke. Last years playoff game is a perfect example what’s wrong with this organization. Guys at the top gotta go. Shaperio and adkins fired.

[waldedw]

Maybe if Bo and Vladi worked on their game and hitting as much as they do their appearance and bling and took off the 4 lbs of gold chains they have flopping around their neck while they play.

Same as every year with the Jay's the top brass Atkins and Shapiro are all excited about the off season moves to strengthen the team during the pre season in Florida, this is a team that can contend for first place, then out of the gates they come and by June they start to make excuses for their lack of performance while they hold down the last spot in the East, but hey they are only 14.5 games back.

Very similar to the Leaf's and Raptors all show and no go but then Toronto is the center of the sporting universe, EH

[kingrat]

They changed almost nothing from last fall so why would they be any better now? I cant even watch them right now they disgust me.

[Mb-MBR]

Pitching gives up too many home runs and offence is last in producing home runs. There's no way Vlad or Bitchette are worth or going to be worth 18-23 mill AAV they're seeking, no way.

Shapiro is proud of the renos at Roger's place while ignoring the on field performance of the team.

Gausman said it, if we don't pitch well, we're not going to win.

[Supergrit]

Vlad average is 278 and hit 7 home runs this season and gets paid 20 million. Baseball is the sport to make the big money. The blue jays of the early 90s many players would do better than this and they could play defence as well.

[Ackleyman]

Dodgers need a short stop after Betts suffered broken hand. Great time to skid Bo before he sticks his hand out for more millions. Not hitting and has most errors on team.

[NCC]

They can't hit with runners on base.

Bo is having an off year.

Vladdy was off to a tough start but has been hitting about 0.350 over the past 6 weeks and his defense is solid. He's not the problem.

Springer is batting below .200 and getting paid $25m/season.

Vargo is batting just over .200.

Starting rotation is average and down one arm.

Bullpen is terrible and can't get outs. Lefties are really struggling.

Closer was giving up too many runs and is now hurt.

Neither DH's can get a hit with runners on.

The team batting average is low and they have no power; that's not a winning combination.

Many of the Blue Jay starters wouldn't crack another MLB roster.

The Jay's active roster payroll is the fifth highest in the league, so ownership is spending enough money to put a winning roster together.

The Blue Jay's management is terrible. Trading away Moreno to keep Kirk. Letting Teoscar Hernandez and Lourdes Guriell go for next nothing. Can't retain pitchers. Signing old players to ridiculous long term contracts. Traded away the farm for an ill advised push for a pennant. Ended up with a high payroll with a bunch of journeyman players and underperforming stars.

I think Shapiro is a goof and should have been fired when he Alex Anthopoulos go.

I also think John Schneider is doing a good job with what he has to work with. I don't know enough about the hitting and pitching coaches to comment, but in a results driven industry I'm sure they are under the microscope.

[walker1]

Originally Posted by Curtsyneil

So what’s wrong with the jays!! The way they run there team is a joke. Last years playoff game is a perfect example what’s wrong with this organization. Guys at the top gotta go. Shaperio and adkins fired.

THIS IS IT. THE TOP BRASS!
And the $#$%&* would not admit to any wrong doing. Lost a lot of respect there! And I am a damn Yankee fan!!!
Did not know they were 5 in payroll but makes sense .

[tirebob]

Originally Posted by NCC

They can't hit with runners on base.

Bo is having an off year.

Vladdy was off to a tough start but has been hitting about 0.350 over the past 6 weeks and his defense is solid. He's not the problem.

Springer is batting below .200 and getting paid $25m/season.

Vargo is batting just over .200.

Starting rotation is average and down one arm.

Bullpen is terrible and can't get outs. Lefties are really struggling.

Closer was giving up too many runs and is now hurt.

Neither DH's can get a hit with runners on.

The team batting average is low and they have no power; that's not a winning combination.

Many of the Blue Jay starters wouldn't crack another MLB roster.

The Jay's active roster payroll is the fifth highest in the league, so ownership is spending enough money to put a winning roster together.

The Blue Jay's management is terrible. Trading away Moreno to keep Kirk. Letting Teoscar Hernandez and Lourdes Guriell go for next nothing. Can't retain pitchers. Signing old players to ridiculous long term contracts. Traded away the farm for an ill advised push for a pennant. Ended up with a high payroll with a bunch of journeyman players and underperforming stars.

I think Shapiro is a goof and should have been fired when he Alex Anthopoulos go.

I also think John Schneider is doing a good job with what he has to work with. I don't know enough about the hitting and pitching coaches to comment, but in a results driven industry I'm sure they are under the microscope.

I think the opposite... He has the players with all the right stuff in them and he is the one who can't draw it out of them. That IS his job. In the end the man in charge has been given the tools to build an awesome team but his house is collapsing. I honestly think he should go.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by tirebob

I think the opposite... He has the players with all the right stuff in them and he is the one who can't draw it out of them. That IS his job. In the end the man in charge has been given the tools to build an awesome team but his house is collapsing. I honestly think he should go.

Yup time for a change


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[Curtsyneil]

Another example of how this team is run. May long weekend on the Saturday they hold a presser for adkins to address the media at 10am to talk about the teams problems. These guys are an absolute joke and continually do dumb **** like this all the time. Who in there damn mind hold a presser on a long weekend at 10am that doesn’t want the fans or the world to know how bad we stink!!! Fire, fire, fire.

[NCC]

Originally Posted by tirebob

I think the opposite... He has the players with all the right stuff in them and he is the one who can't draw it out of them. That IS his job. In the end the man in charge has been given the tools to build an awesome team but his house is collapsing. I honestly think he should go.

What does the manager do with George Springer? Past his prime, hitting .195 and making $25 million/year.

Kirk - the brass traded Moreno and kept Kirk. hitting 0.200, can't play more than 2 days in a row but Schneider is forced to keep sending him out there and hoping he can get a hit.

Kiner- Falefa - career journeyman player with no power. Don't expect him to save the team.

Varsho - career sub .250 hitter. Great defender, would be batting 7-8 on most teams and is batting 4-5 for the Jays.

Schneider, Clement, Horwitz, Barger - all have some potential but not exactly tearing the cover off the ball and are average big league defenders. Horwitz is learning a new position in the bigs.

Justin Turner - getting paid a bunch and can't hit with runners on and no power.

Keirmaier - great fielder, #9 hitter. If you're counting on your 9 spot hitter to save the team, that ain't the manager's fault.

Daniel Vogelbach - below average hitter and rated one of the worst defenders in baseball when the Jays signed him.

Danny Jansen - average hitter, average defender. Not going to move the needle on a good team. Would be batting way down the lineup on most MLB teams.

Bo Bichette - having a bad year, but the manager would get sacked if he moved Bo down the lineup or didn't play him everyday when healthy.

Guerrero - playing almost everyday and batting 3/4. Don't think anyone can say the manager should change that.

Did Shapiro think Joey Votto was going to come back at 40 after an injury riddled season and contribute? That was just a smoke screen to divert attention from all of the problems with the starting line up. They may as well have invited Matt Stairs to come to spring training.

The Blue Jay starters have performed well and are almost always under pressure to pitch a perfect game because the Jays can't score. The bullpen isn't great. The Blue Jays brass traded away some good prospects and kept some that haven't panned out (Manoah, Pearson). Romano is on the IL. Rest of the bull pen have been getting clobbered. Schneider can't send the same arms out every night and when he's forced to get deep into his bullpen, they get pounded.

Which position players from the Jays would be starters for the Orioles or Yankees? I think Guerrero and maybe Varsho for his defense and a left handed bat. The Jays don't have the talent to compete for a wild card spot and that's on the brass not the guys at field level.

I also think that the front office (with help from the analytics team) are making a bunch of on field decisions. I'd bet $100 that Bichette or Vladdy don't get a night off or move in the batting order without prior approval from upstairs. Shapiro said as much during an interview.

I think Schneider will be unemployed before the end of the season as Shapiro makes a bunch of desperate moves to try to save his own hide.

Don Mattingly is the "offensive coordinator" so he may end up taking the fall for the lack of offense this year.

[NCC]

Originally Posted by Curtsyneil

Another example of how this team is run. May long weekend on the Saturday they hold a presser for adkins to address the media at 10am to talk about the teams problems. These guys are an absolute joke and continually do dumb **** like this all the time. Who in there damn mind hold a presser on a long weekend at 10am that doesn’t want the fans or the world to know how bad we stink!!! Fire, fire, fire.

The government does it all of the time when they don't want anyone to hear what they have to say.

[tirebob]

Originally Posted by NCC

What does the manager do with George Springer? Past his prime, hitting .195 and making $25 million/year.

Kirk - the brass traded Moreno and kept Kirk. hitting 0.200, can't play more than 2 days in a row but Schneider is forced to keep sending him out there and hoping he can get a hit.

Kiner- Falefa - career journeyman player with no power. Don't expect him to save the team.

Varsho - career sub .250 hitter. Great defender, would be batting 7-8 on most teams and is batting 4-5 for the Jays.

Schneider, Clement, Horwitz, Barger - all have some potential but not exactly tearing the cover off the ball and are average big league defenders. Horwitz is learning a new position in the bigs.

Justin Turner - getting paid a bunch and can't hit with runners on and no power.

Keirmaier - great fielder, #9 hitter. If you're counting on your 9 spot hitter to save the team, that ain't the manager's fault.

Daniel Vogelbach - below average hitter and rated one of the worst defenders in baseball when the Jays signed him.

Danny Jansen - average hitter, average defender. Not going to move the needle on a good team. Would be batting way down the lineup on most MLB teams.

Bo Bichette - having a bad year, but the manager would get sacked if he moved Bo down the lineup or didn't play him everyday when healthy.

Guerrero - playing almost everyday and batting 3/4. Don't think anyone can say the manager should change that.

Did Shapiro think Joey Votto was going to come back at 40 after an injury riddled season and contribute? That was just a smoke screen to divert attention from all of the problems with the starting line up. They may as well have invited Matt Stairs to come to spring training.

The Blue Jay starters have performed well and are almost always under pressure to pitch a perfect game because the Jays can't score. The bullpen isn't great. The Blue Jays brass traded away some good prospects and kept some that haven't panned out (Manoah, Pearson). Romano is on the IL. Rest of the bull pen have been getting clobbered. Schneider can't send the same arms out every night and when he's forced to get deep into his bullpen, they get pounded.

Which position players from the Jays would be starters for the Orioles or Yankees? I think Guerrero and maybe Varsho for his defense and a left handed bat. The Jays don't have the talent to compete for a wild card spot and that's on the brass not the guys at field level.

I also think that the front office (with help from the analytics team) are making a bunch of on field decisions. I'd bet $100 that Bichette or Vladdy don't get a night off or move in the batting order without prior approval from upstairs. Shapiro said as much during an interview.

I think Schneider will be unemployed before the end of the season as Shapiro makes a bunch of desperate moves to try to save his own hide.

Don Mattingly is the "offensive coordinator" so he may end up taking the fall for the lack of offense this year.

Not saying you don't have some valid points in their, but the coach is the man who has to figure out his players, inspire them, and make them all work as a cohesive unit. No matter what the team fielded is, his job is to get the absolute most out of their capabilities as possible, and he ain't doing that even remotely.

[Twisted Canuck]

It's like they're the Calgary Flames of the MLB....

[tirebob]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

It's like they're the Calgary Flames of the MLB....

And they have been Sutter'd...

[britman101]

It starts with management. Ross Atkins took a playoff team and through his inept tinkering turned them into a last place team. For instance to replace Brandon Belt at DH he signs Daniel Vogelbach for $ 2 million US/season. However,
In the league it is known that Vogelbach, can't run, can't field, and can't hit left hand pitching. Yet Atkins still signs him as a free agent. Vogelbach is a total bust as a DH so they end up waiving him a week ago. This is just a small sample size of what' s wrong with the Jays. Time to start the rebuild, and start by firing Shapiro, and Atkins.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

It's like they're the Calgary Flames of the MLB....

More like the Canucks!

Dammit


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[riden]

Originally Posted by britman101

It starts with management. Ross Atkins took a playoff team and through his inept tinkering turned them into a last place team. For instance to replace Brandon Belt at DH he signs Daniel Vogelbach for $ 2 million US/season. However,
In the league it is known that Vogelbach, can't run, can't field, and can't hit left hand pitching. Yet Atkins still signs him as a free agent. Vogelbach is a total bust as a DH so they end up waiving him a week ago. This is just a small sample size of what' s wrong with the Jays. Time to start the rebuild, and start by firing Shapiro, and Atkins.

$2 million GUARANTEED

[dfarms11]

Im not a fan of Schneider myself. Personally I think a coaching change would help the team. Look what it did for the Oilers.

[waldedw]

And they got spanked again today

[MoFugger21]

It's not Schneider. The best managers in the game don't add as many wins as people would believe. There's only so much Schneider can do with the personnel he's been given.

It's the overall approach from management (prioritizing run prevention over hitting when bringing players in) and the whole coaching staff (approach at the plate). It feels like the staff and advanced stats management types are focusing on exit velocity and getting the ball in air, which doesn't/hasn't worked for this group. Need to get back to focusing in on pitch selection (instead of waving at outside curve balls on 1st pitch) and hitting line drives and being able to hit the ball to the opposite field.

As a team, they just swing at too many terrible pitches and it shows with their stats having runners in scoring position.

[Ackleyman]

Last night was sad. Looked like after all the walks and runs scored in 2nd they thought oh well were done , and they were , 5 walks and 70 pitches to get out of 2nd inning. No fire in the belly , so your down 7-0 , there were still 7 innings to go. Pitching is terrible. Dead last in AL East , 14.5 games back, around eleventh place in American Leauge. Turner is a boat anchor , get men on base and he rarely delivers. Bunch a overpaid sad sacks.

[tallieho]

Sad account last night.This recycling of older/damaged players.Has to stop & that can only happen .With Atkins & the other guy gone.I feel the retirement,of there 3rd base coach.Left Bichette & Vladdy looking for adirection to go.My god they have 4 pitching coaches .I was happy to see Vogeelback,sent packing.A raw/raw guy that gets pd million bucks WOW..