Proposed Home builders licensing?

[dmcbride]

Would these changes make it impossible for someone to build there own house with there own hands?



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...rvey-1.4009931

Focus groups and an online survey are part of Alberta’s push for home builder licensing

The Alberta government is meeting with home builders and consumers and has launched a survey to potentially require builders to have a license.

Currently, there aren't any specific qualifications required to build a home in Alberta — but the provincial government wants to change that.

Licensing would require builders to prove they're not in debt and that they have the skills to construct homes properly.

Municipal Affairs Minister Shaye Anderson says it's to shut down companies who provide bad workmanship and disappear.

"People should be confident that when they're making the biggest financial decision of their life for their family in building a house, that they have someone who's a confident builder," said Anderson.

The province is holding focus groups with various parties involved in the home-building process, including homeowners, builders, engineers and municipalities. They're hoping to receive feedback from all facets of the industry.

Alberta's chapter of the Canadian Home Builders' Association has been pushing for licensing requirements for years. They're also involved in the current focus groups.

T.J. Keil, the association's external relations manager, hopes the potential licensing program is fair and affordable.

"[I'm hoping] that the rules will be clear and that they're enforced in an equal and fair way across the province," said Keil. "You don't want to see a bunch of different regimes pop up from different cities and town to town. That wouldn't really help anybody.

"If any regime was a high cost to comply you're obviously going to drive some of the smaller but reputable builders out. It's going to be a strain for them at a time when the economy is not doing particularly well."

The online survey is open until Mar. 14 and consultations will continue before any legislative amendments are made.

[cowmanbob]

Pretty sure the end result will be to get rid of the small builders.

[fish_e_o]

harder and harder for small operations to get going.

[Okotokian]

I'm sure no expert so am not adamant in my thoughts on this, but people have to get certified for a lot less than building a structure people will invest a great part of their present and future wealth in and also live with their families in. The guy who sells you your mutual funds has to have certain certifications. Ditto your kid's teacher, your doctor....

With regard to putting small builders out of business, it would seem to me that a reasonable compromise would be to grandfather in all builders who have already built a certain number of homes, not been sued, etc.

An additional compromise not to handicap the "do-it-yourselfer" might be that you can build your own residence without any certification whatsoever, but that if you intend to sell the residence later, you must get some sort of very detailed inspection.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I'm sure no expert so am not adamant in my thoughts on this, but people have to get certified for a lot less than building a structure people will invest a great part of their present and future wealth in and also live with their families in. The guy who sells you your mutual funds has to have certain certifications. Ditto your kid's teacher, your doctor....

With regard to putting small builders out of business, it would seem to me that a reasonable compromise would be to grandfather in all builders who have already built a certain number of homes, not been sued, etc.

An additional compromise not to handicap the "do-it-yourselfer" might be that you can build your own residence without any certification whatsoever, but that if you intend to sell the residence later, you must get some sort of very detailed inspection.

pretty redundant with the new builder insurance that is mandatory.

[masalma]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

pretty redundant with the new builder insurance that is mandatory.

And the need for permits and inspections.

[super7mag]

Originally Posted by masalma

And the need for permits and inspections.

And a journeymans ticket! More Gov bureaucracy BS

[Albertadiver]

With the new building code in place and the energy efficiency requirements, it is getting really really tough to build your own home, unless you're already a contractor.

[EZM]

If one of the conditions, as outlined in the OP's original post was to "prove they have no debt" then there would be nobody, or no organization who would qualify.

I bet all major builders have debt. I bet most small builders might have a personal line of credit, a mortgage themselves or a truck payment. They probably have credit or a revolving account at most of the suppliers they use.

If the requirement was to have "a good credit rating with appropriate, secured and ample facilities (a large and secure enough line of credit in good standing) then, that's a different story altogether.

Running a building company you would almost certainly need debt, a revolver and/or a line of credit somewhere to even go pick up 2 packs of shingles from the home depot without using cash.

[halang_99]

I lived in Sask. for so long I feel like I can interpret ndp .What it means is if your not union you don't work

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by halang_99

I lived in Sask. for so long I feel like I can interpret ndp .What it means is if your not union you don't work

This is the ultimate goal here people.

If you can't see this, you are part of the problem.

There are many journeyman carpenters who couldn't frame a square garden shed, and there are many individuals who do not possess any type of construction education but build some of the best custom houses around. A piece of paper does not determine the quality of work. (Makes me think of the home school thread and teachers)

[leo]

Originally Posted by Newview01

There are many journeyman carpenters who couldn't frame a square garden shed, and there are many individuals who do not possess any type of construction education but build some of the best custom houses around. A piece of paper does not determine the quality of work. (Makes me think of the home school thread and teachers)

I agree 100%, however a red seal certificate is the only industry standard that I know of that is supposed to represent competency. Which reinforces my point, the shoddy ones need to get thinned out and there needs to be real repercussions for delivering substandard work. If industry had the wherewithal to manage it's own people and pull the reds seals on these duds, then the government wouldn't be shoving legislation down our throats. That will never happen with carpentry as long as it's a non protected trade. For the people out there that don't have a ticket but would like to get one, you can still apply to challenge the written and practical equivalent which still gives you a red seal. I believe you need 8000 qualified hours of practical field experience to do this. This is what I did 18 years ago when I had over 12,000 hours of qualified field work. The difference between me having a ticket and not is very apparent. Instead of being a Superintendent running and working on projects valued up to 1.4 Billion, I would be considered an experienced laborer. I don't think I need to spell it out any clearer.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by leo

I agree 100%, however a red seal certificate is the only industry standard that I know of that is supposed to represent competency. Which reinforces my point, the shoddy ones need to get thinned out and there needs to be real repercussions for delivering substandard work. If industry had the wherewithal to manage it's own people and pull the reds seals on these duds, then the government wouldn't be shoving legislation down our throats. That will never happen with carpentry as long as it's a non protected trade. For the people out there that don't have a ticket but would like to get one, you can still apply to challenge the written and practical equivalent which still gives you a red seal. I believe you need 8000 qualified hours of practical field experience to do this. This is what I did 18 years ago when I had over 12,000 hours of qualified field work. The difference between me having a ticket and not is very apparent. Instead of being a Superintendent running and working on projects valued up to 1.4 Billion, I would be considered an experienced laborer. I don't think I need to spell it out any clearer.

I agree.

Competent inspectors would help. Too many mistakes and your business is shut down.

[357xp]

Iam all for better built homes, but a man should be able to build a home for himself if he wants to. Sure, it has to be up to code I understand that. But don't think for a minute that everything is built perfect in a house that's "inspected".
I have a very good idea how well or not so well some of these inspectors examine homes. Some don't even get out of the car. Just sign it off.

[blueboy]

First we need to take a breathe.
This a proposed legislation to control operations that are not properly funded from walking away from their obligations. If you are an individual or a large corporation, you need to be properly funded. That includes building your own house.
New NATIONAL building codes are not the product of the NDP, but will require a lot more professionalism in the building trades going forward.

[MBL]

I agree with Leo on pretty much everything he said. Carpentry should be a protected trade and a journeyman certificate a requirement to be a contractor. It would definitely be a step in the right direction knowing that the person building your house or renovating your existing home has had training.

[MBL]

And I also agree that homeowners should be able to build their own house if capable or general it themselves.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by MBL

I agree with Leo on pretty much everything he said. Carpentry should be a protected trade and a journeyman certificate a requirement to be a contractor. It would definitely be a step in the right direction knowing that the person building your house or renovating your existing home has had training.

Having the right training does not mean the quality of work will be up to par.

If there is to be a system of checks and balances, the work completed must be checked by a motivated and particular inspector.

[MBL]

I agree

[sweld]

We built our own cabin a couple of years ago. It was time for the electrical inspection. Suppose to meet the inspector there at said time, on the way there he phones and says everything is good. Asked how he got in and he says I didn't I looked through the window.


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[357xp]

Originally Posted by sweld

We built our own cabin a couple of years ago. It was time for the electrical inspection. Suppose to meet the inspector there at said time, on the way there he phones and says everything is good. Asked how he got in and he says I didn't I looked through the window.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

exactly what i was talking about