Load development is this correct?

[Buckhorn2]

So this was my first time trying to develop a load for my old hunting rifle. I chose Reloder15, Speer 180gr btsp. Rifle is a 300savage99. I started at 39.0gr as per the manual, and shot one round +.2gr up to 42.4gr. Max recc load 43gr. I didnt have any signs of pressure or no sticking of the action altho this is not a bolt action so im not sure if the action would be sticky on over pressure? I shot over caldwell chrono, how much can i trust the veloctiy is close enough. I did get a tiny split on neck of the 2nd round i fired can i chalk that up to a defective brass no primer cratering etc? All others seemed good. i got two spots where the grouping was really good compared to the rest of the rounds. The two shot almost the exact same point of impact. Should i now load 10 rounds of say 40.4gr and 42.2gr. Then see if it groups well? I had another set of 125gr ballistic tips loaded as well but i got rained out.

[Dick284]

Go load up 3-5 of each of the upper end loads and see what that brings you.

Single shots are pretty meaningless.

[wwbirds]

Did you really only load one round of each 2 grain increment. When I try to develop a load I load 5 shells of each .5 grain increment. From 51 grains (minimum) of my powder up to 56 grains (maximum) for my 30-06. so I would have five with 51 grains 5 with 51.5 grains and 5 of 52 grains etc all the way up to 56 grains (book maximum). If I got a sweet spot in one of those groups say 56 grains because those 5 bullets grouped almost on top of each other I may try 5 shots of 55.8 5 of 56 again and 5 more of 56.2 to see if I could tighten it up some more and confirm that 56 was intend the best I could get. If I am reading your description correctly I dont know how you would see a group develop shooting only one shot from each incremental load??
Most will shoot at least 3 of each increment and many of us do 5.

[Buckhorn2]

Yes i only loaded the one round of each charge. What i read was with the chrono and small increment charge change i should get a small group form where the bullet /speed/barrel like each other. Since i achieved the similar result i assumed id done it right. None of the other charges grouped. So if i load up 5 rounds each do i still go .2gr. How reliable/consistant are these caldwell chronos?


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[Salavee]

I would be having a closer look at 41- 41.5 grs . That's about 44000 CUP ( approx 50,000psi) If your chrony verifies a MV of 2400 -2430 treat it as max in that rifle and you should be good to go. I wouldn't push it to 2500 in any event. You can pbly trust your Chrony but a micrometer to measure your case expansion is always a good back-up.
As for the brass, if it is new and a neck split, it's likely a bad lot or a one-time fluke. (Winchester?) If previously fired, it may be work hardened from reloading and requires annealing.
Anyway, I hope this helps. Have fun !

[DiabeticKripple]

40.8 to 41.2 is a nice flat spot. I would load up a bunch in that area and shoot groups.

[Sashi]

You are basically shooting a ladder, the 2 nodes you have found may be the loads you are looking for, continue as you are planning and prove those loads out. Good Luck

[Buckhorn2]

The brass is all once fired by this same gun. Full length resized. Im fairly new to reloading but i made sure the measurements were right, and double/triple checked all charge weights. I dont have way to calculate pressures as im just going by the manual min-max. So if i measure the brass i just fired for expansion, is it this highlighted measurement?

Originally Posted by Salavee

I would be having a closer look at 41- 41.5 grs . That's about 44000 CUP ( approx 50,000psi) If your chrony verifies a MV of 2400 -2430 treat it as max in that rifle and you should be good to go. I wouldn't push it to 2500 in any event. You can pbly trust your Chrony but a micrometer to measure your case expansion is always a good back-up.
As for the brass, if it is new and a neck split, it's likely a bad lot or a one-time fluke. (Winchester?) If previously fired, it may be work hardened from reloading and requires annealing.
Anyway, I hope this helps. Have fun !

[waterhaulerhunter]

I do my load development in the exact same manner. Were you shooting at 100yds or further. When doing the ladder test the further distance you shoot at the better to see the “nodes” on paper. If you’re seeing it on paper and the chrony backs it up you are in yhr right area. I’ll load up some batches in the nodes like you are describing and fine tune from there. Components are expensive and there is no way I’m loading up 10 rounds at each .5gr increment just to find a node and then still have to fine tune from there.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Buckhorn2

The brass is all once fired by this same gun. Full length resized. Im fairly new to reloading but i made sure the measurements were right, and double/triple checked all charge weights. I dont have way to calculate pressures as im just going by the manual min-max. So if i measure the brass i just fired for expansion, is it this highlighted measurement?

No, you measure the case expansion at the base, just above the web. Measure an unfired case, then the fired empty case . Expansion of no more than.003 would be acceptable in that rifle, but no more. The '99 chambers are often a bit "looser" than a bolt gun, as is headpapace. That's why it's important to watch your pressures.

[Buckhorn2]

I will go farther on the next range day. This was only about 80 yards. I was rushed for time, and also got rained out as it was. Ill measure the brass for expansion as was suggested then load up a few rounds at those two charge weights. I cant see me hunting this gun past 200 yards altho these groups are already better then the one factory load option i have left. Might be a little overkill i guess if im not long range hunting but i know the factory loads were inconsistant in this rifle. yes it was minute of deer with open sight, but now that it has a scope and i can see how inconsistant the loads were, i owe it to the animal to get more accuracy if i can.

[Dick284]

Ladder test for a Savage 99 in .300 Savage! You guys cut me up!

That’s like taking a mini van to the street drags.

Just re do the likely looking suspects, but do 3 or 5 shot groups at each weight, and go in 0.5 grain increments.

[astepanuk]

Originally Posted by Buckhorn2

I will go farther on the next range day. This was only about 80 yards. I was rushed for time, and also got rained out as it was. Ill measure the brass for expansion as was suggested then load up a few rounds at those two charge weights. I cant see me hunting this gun past 200 yards altho these groups are already better then the one factory load option i have left. Might be a little overkill i guess if im not long range hunting but i know the factory loads were inconsistant in this rifle. yes it was minute of deer with open sight, but now that it has a scope and i can see how inconsistant the loads were, i owe it to the animal to get more accuracy if i can.

I would defiantly not make any hard decisions on a 80Yard trial the min I would go is 200Yards, but like to do most mine at 350 as it really gives a distinct Node.

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by astepanuk

I would defiantly not make any hard decisions on a 80Yard trial the min I would go is 200Yards, but like to do most mine at 350 as it really gives a distinct Node.

I’d disagree and say 100y is plenty for development,at 200 and especially at 350 you are introducing more variables into the equation with wind and shooter error.Shoot as tight as you can at 100 and then once you KNOW you have an accurate load you can play around at 200-350 and beyond imho.

[gunluvr]

Why not lighten up your bullet choice a little? At 2400 muzzle velocity and zeroed at 200 yds. 180 gr. bullets are gonna drop a foot at 300, 3 ft at 400, and over 6 ft at 400 yds. I'd zero that thing at 100 yds, and shoot 150s. That should give you 2700ish MV and bullet drop of 5-6 inches at 200 and about 15" drop at 300. That's about it for the range of that rifle, anyway. Iron sights?
Just my opinion.

[wwbirds]

I believe in post 11 the OP said he wouldn't likely shoot past the 200 yard mark. don't see any reason to try it out at 300 350 or more as others have suggested.

[Buckhorn2]

I chose heavier soft bullet at slower velocity it will be the ticket for elk or moose (tag ready for november) out to 200yards. I can sight the 180s in at 200ish yards and should be good for a 6” circle out to 250ish yards. This gun doesnt have the velocity for newer style bullets. Used to have 180gr factory loads available but now there is only remington and federal left in 150gr Basically the same bullet design works great on deer in 150gr at open sight range. But i installed a scope on this gun and realized it was not shooting the corelokts or federals well 2.5-3inch group at 100yards. The velocity was all over the map on the factory loads. I can already tell these reloads are going to be way more accurate maybe even hit inch at 100. Ive always shot this gun open sight under 50yards but since moving here in 2011 realized had potential for some longer shots. Im still not into long range hunting but 200 yards is reasonable and my personal limit. I went open sight to wmu118 last fall first time ever chasing mulies, had a blast made lots of mistakes but had to pass up a bunch of deer at 200-300 yards as i wasnt willing to chance open sight at that distance. It wasnt the guns fault just inexperienced closing the distance in that style terrain. So i scoped the gun and decided to treat it to some reload testing. This is strictly my hunting rifle im just tuning to get accurate load for it out to 200ish yards.


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[WeatherbyFan65]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

Did you really only load one round of each 2 grain increment. When I try to develop a load I load 5 shells of each .5 grain increment. From 51 grains (minimum) of my powder up to 56 grains (maximum) for my 30-06. so I would have five with 51 grains 5 with 51.5 grains and 5 of 52 grains etc all the way up to 56 grains (book maximum). If I got a sweet spot in one of those groups say 56 grains because those 5 bullets grouped almost on top of each other I may try 5 shots of 55.8 5 of 56 again and 5 more of 56.2 to see if I could tighten it up some more and confirm that 56 was intend the best I could get. If I am reading your description correctly I dont know how you would see a group develop shooting only one shot from each incremental load??
Most will shoot at least 3 of each increment and many of us do 5.

http://www.65guys.com/10-round-load-...t-ladder-test/

here's the link to finding an accuracy node in a 10 shot ladder test

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by Buckhorn2

I chose heavier soft bullet at slower velocity it will be the ticket for elk or moose (tag ready for november) out to 200yards. I can sight the 180s in at 200ish yards and should be good for a 6” circle out to 250ish yards. This gun doesnt have the velocity for newer style bullets. Used to have 180gr factory loads available but now there is only remington and federal left in 150gr Basically the same bullet design works great on deer in 150gr at open sight range. But i installed a scope on this gun and realized it was not shooting the corelokts or federals well 2.5-3inch group at 100yards. The velocity was all over the map on the factory loads. I can already tell these reloads are going to be way more accurate maybe even hit inch at 100. Ive always shot this gun open sight under 50yards but since moving here in 2011 realized had potential for some longer shots. Im still not into long range hunting but 200 yards is reasonable and my personal limit. I went open sight to wmu118 last fall first time ever chasing mulies, had a blast made lots of mistakes but had to pass up a bunch of deer at 200-300 yards as i wasnt willing to chance open sight at that distance. It wasnt the guns fault just inexperienced closing the distance in that style terrain. So i scoped the gun and decided to treat it to some reload testing. This is strictly my hunting rifle im just tuning to get accurate load for it out to 200ish yards.


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Yea but but but but.......this is AO Forum where everybody is a sniper that regularly shoot deer at 600 yards and make head shots on gophers at 200 with .17HMR in 30mph crosswind and if your rifle won’t shoot .4MOA and hold 2” groups at 300y it’s just scrap metal.
Welcome to Alberta....🙄

[wwbirds]

Very interesting. Would try it if I was dialing in new rifles. Most of mine have been dialed in for 20 years so if I shoot for groups on one each year after changing scopes or something that is the only rifle practice I get that year other than shooting 3 shots to test sight in from year to year. Maybe velocity is the key to barrel harmonics.

[DLab]

According to the Scott Satterlee method[6.5 Guys video] ,the velocity plateau is 40.8-41.2 ,recommending loading the middle at 41.0 for the OP.
Looking at this method for long range load development where minimal vertical spreads from velocity changes is critical for same POI on target is what their after here, also giving the load some lee way of a tenth or two on either side for weather variables ,powder drop ,etc.
Seating depth changes to tweak final loads for group.
For short range groups in a hunting rifle 200 yards or less ,not sure how much of benefit this method might be for the OP. , slight velocity changes aren't as critical.
Loading 3-5 rounds for confirmation of load is recommended either way.
By coincidence I just loaded 12 rounds of 143 gr. ELD-X for my CM to give this a method a try for banging steel at distance ,not so much for hunting.
I'm curious to see the results myself.

[Nova316]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

40.8 to 41.2 is a nice flat spot. I would load up a bunch in that area and shoot groups.

This is what I'd shoot and load 5 rounds of each and take the best of those 3 groups.

Its a super flat velocity spot since your extreme spread and standard deviation is super low so when you stretch it out to 300-400-500 it should group quite nice.