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  #61  
Old 12-14-2019, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mulecrazy View Post
Aging MAY help, but is definitely not the be all end all. I have aged moose anywhere from 1-8 days and they have all been very tender. A good friend aged his 4.5year old bull for 2 weeks and it was like rubber. That bull had a cracked skull and may have been stressed quite a bit from the previous months rut. My big bull I shot this year was rutting hard, shot first week of October and he had 8 cows with him. I hung him for 6 days and he has been great so far. We pushed my dads bull through a series of brush before he ended up shooting him after about a 3 mile run. He was tender as can be after 7 days.

You may have just got a tough one. It happens, even with young bulls sometimes.
That’s very true.
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  #62  
Old 12-14-2019, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Rhino81 View Post
A friend of mine started getting all his elk and moose steak tenderized at the butcher. Said it was the best thing he ever did. I’m going to try it this year with my moose
I prefer to beat my meat at home saves on cost if you got the time...same outcome...just easier on the bank account.
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  #63  
Old 12-14-2019, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulecrazy View Post
Aging MAY help, but is definitely not the be all end all. I have aged moose anywhere from 1-8 days and they have all been very tender. A good friend aged his 4.5year old bull for 2 weeks and it was like rubber. That bull had a cracked skull and may have been stressed quite a bit from the previous months rut. My big bull I shot this year was rutting hard, shot first week of October and he had 8 cows with him. I hung him for 6 days and he has been great so far. We pushed my dads bull through a series of brush before he ended up shooting him after about a 3 mile run. He was tender as can be after 7 days.

You may have just got a tough one. It happens, even with young bulls sometimes.

It happens with commercially raised and processed beef sometimes too.
Some animals are just tough no matter what hocus pocus you normally do.
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  #64  
Old 12-14-2019, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by calgarychef View Post
It happens with commercially raised and processed beef sometimes too.
Some animals are just tough no matter what hocus pocus you normally do.
I've ate pretty tough feedlot steer before. As you said, happens with everything.
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  #65  
Old 12-15-2019, 12:33 AM
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Meat becomes tough for a reason. The ONLY causes of meat being naturally tough are age and exercise. Older an animal gets the tougher the meat gets and the more a muscle is exercised the tougher the meat will be as a result. Outside of those two causes tough meat is the result of an external variable.

There are MANY ways to tenderise meat, hanging, pounding, cutting it into thin strips, slow cooking, marinating, not overcooking it and a long list of other things. Certain cuts of meat, those that have a lot of connective tissue and see a lot of exercise are going to be much tougher than the meats that are not heavily used muscles. That is why we make ground or sausage out of certain cuts.

You can control the tenderness of the meat you serve to a very large degree but it will be far harder to overcome the natural things that cause tough meat if you don't mitigate rigour, adrenaline, stress and the many exogenous factors the cause tough meat. You will also get far tougher meat if you do not apply the correct cutting, processing steps, and cooking. The English have a richly deserved reputation for being able to turn a prime cut of Filet into an unchewable lump by severely over cooking it, which they are prone to do with any red meat.

There has been lots of great advice in this thread, even if hanging does not tenderise the meat sufficiently there are still a large number of steps that can be taken to mitigate that, even down to making sausage and peperoni out of it, though that should rarely be required if the other proper measures are used. Best of luck..
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  #66  
Old 12-15-2019, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by calgarychef View Post
It happens with commercially raised and processed beef sometimes too.
Some animals are just tough no matter what hocus pocus you normally do.
Exactly. Mother nature does some screwy things.
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  #67  
Old 12-15-2019, 10:59 AM
calgarychef calgarychef is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
Meat becomes tough for a reason. The ONLY causes of meat being naturally tough are age and exercise. Older an animal gets the tougher the meat gets and the more a muscle is exercised the tougher the meat will be as a result. Outside of those two causes tough meat is the result of an external variable.

There are MANY ways to tenderise meat, hanging, pounding, cutting it into thin strips, slow cooking, marinating, not overcooking it and a long list of other things. Certain cuts of meat, those that have a lot of connective tissue and see a lot of exercise are going to be much tougher than the meats that are not heavily used muscles. That is why we make ground or sausage out of certain cuts.

You can control the tenderness of the meat you serve to a very large degree but it will be far harder to overcome the natural things that cause tough meat if you don't mitigate rigour, adrenaline, stress and the many exogenous factors the cause tough meat. You will also get far tougher meat if you do not apply the correct cutting, processing steps, and cooking. The English have a richly deserved reputation for being able to turn a prime cut of Filet into an unchewable lump by severely over cooking it, which they are prone to do with any red meat.

There has been lots of great advice in this thread, even if hanging does not tenderise the meat sufficiently there are still a large number of steps that can be taken to mitigate that, even down to making sausage and peperoni out of it, though that should rarely be required if the other proper measures are used. Best of luck..
Yup!!

Also the Europeans for years didn’t raise good beef, even though they think they raise the best ...it ain’t true. When I lived in England I totally quit eating beef. It just wasn’t worth the heartache.

Many of the older (especially French) recipes rely on long cooking techniques to render their beef edible. Beef bourginion is fantastic and one of my favourites, sauerbraten is another one that’s yummy. Rouladen -pounded and rolled then braised will make any piece tender eventually.


If I remember right there are only 3 ways to tenderize meat

Chemical/enzymatic - using natural enzymes when aging or adding enzymes like papain (from papaya).

Mechanical which makes the tough parts smaller and easier to chew-
Slicing thin, grinding, pounding etc.

Cooking- to break down the connective tissue and make it soft.

There’s lots that can be done with tough meat.
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  #68  
Old 12-15-2019, 09:13 PM
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We have always aged 7-10 days not any longer. Temps are a few degrees above zero and the hide is off. The meat ends up very tender without the livery taste of aged meat beyond 14 + days which I don't enjoy as much.

We were forced a few years back to hang and age for 3 weeks and the meat was fork tender but it definitely got that slight livery taste.
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  #69  
Old 12-16-2019, 07:41 AM
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For the people that understand the aging process:
Can you age a deer/moose/elk cut up in freezer packed bags in the fridge? I would guess most meat is damaged due to improper temperature storage. Wondering if you could just age it in the fridge prior or after freezing and get the same effect in a temperature controlled environment.
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  #70  
Old 12-16-2019, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewM View Post
For the people that understand the aging process:
Can you age a deer/moose/elk cut up in freezer packed bags in the fridge? I would guess most meat is damaged due to improper temperature storage. Wondering if you could just age it in the fridge prior or after freezing and get the same effect in a temperature controlled environment.

Yes, before and/or after freezing.

But....

Be careful of mold.
For your research, you are talking about "wet" aging.

If possible, I wouldn't cut it into smaller pieces and bag it for aging.
You will get mold growing on all oxygen exposed surfaces after 4-5 days.
This could be a safety issue.

I use a fridge to age skinned and quartered deer when it is too warm or cold for the garage. I'll bag a quarter, get out as much air as possible. I trim ALL of the surface off before butchering for freezing. This is not a technique to age longer than a week, which is plenty for deer. I find five days to be just right for me.

Aging smaller cuts after freezing is fine too. Same precautions, watch out for mold growth. It used to be standard practice to age beef from the store when buying a few steaks for the weekend. Buy early in the week, throw the meat into a marinade (which typically prevents mold growth) and age till the BBQ is lit.
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  #71  
Old 12-16-2019, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post
Yes, before and/or after freezing.

But....

Be careful of mold.
For your research, you are talking about "wet" aging.

If possible, I wouldn't cut it into smaller pieces and bag it for aging.
You will get mold growing on all oxygen exposed surfaces after 4-5 days.
This could be a safety issue.

I use a fridge to age skinned and quartered deer when it is too warm or cold for the garage. I'll bag a quarter, get out as much air as possible. I trim ALL of the surface off before butchering for freezing. This is not a technique to age longer than a week, which is plenty for deer. I find five days to be just right for me.

Aging smaller cuts after freezing is fine too. Same precautions, watch out for mold growth. It used to be standard practice to age beef from the store when buying a few steaks for the weekend. Buy early in the week, throw the meat into a marinade (which typically prevents mold growth) and age till the BBQ is lit.
Thanks for the reply. Would vacuum packed bags last any longer in the fridge since it has most of the oxygen removed or will it go moldy as well?
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  #72  
Old 12-16-2019, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewM View Post
Thanks for the reply. Would vacuum packed bags last any longer in the fridge since it has most of the oxygen removed or will it go moldy as well?
It would help reduce aerobic mold growth,
No guarantees on the timeline from me.
For deer, IMO, there is no need to age longer than the 5 days unless it was a really tough animal.
Minimum is three days to allow the meat to come out of rigor.
After that, aging is decomposition of the tissues.
I find that the meat can get Too "tender" for my liking after 5 days of wet aging.
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  #73  
Old 12-16-2019, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timsesink View Post
Wet age everything a minimum of 3 weeks. Works wonders.

I believe wet aging still works after frozen but I would only consider it on pieces you won't refreeze. Other then that insta-pot, jerky or sausage.
Good point
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  #74  
Old 12-17-2019, 07:50 AM
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Some challenges for those butchering at home. More so in big game vs. livestock.

Dry aging not something I would try. Wet aging is recommended practice for the at home scenario.

Olds College has a one-day course. I think anyone regardless of experience can get a lot of good information from it.

Freezing in cold weather is a real challenge. In some scenarios may be best to leave hide on or partially on to prevent freezing but you can also get bone sour meat in -30C weather.

My understanding is that aging after freezing will not work. But you can freeze & thaw meat multiple times without much affect.

Keeping things clean is of course very important.

Challenges.
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  #75  
Old 12-18-2019, 06:08 AM
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I've had that before with deer. Just tale it out of the freezer 3-4 days before you want to eat it and let it sit in the fridge, slow cook everything, problem solved.
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