Accurate .22

[Brbpuppy]

Originally Posted by Dean2

When did you guys buy your T-bolts. I have an old LH Belium made one that is very accurate and a true joy to shoot. I tried 1 22 LR and a 17 HMR when the new models first came out and I bought another 22 after they had been out about 10 years and reading some good reports on them. I was very disappointed with the accuracy of all three. I bedded them, lapped the bores, tried primo ammo and everything else I could think of and they just did not shoot like an $800 gun should, remember this is 20 year ago dollars. They wouldn't even group as good as Marlin or Winchester levers. I sold off all three within a year of owning them. Happy but surprised to hear yours are so accurate that they will shoot with a CZ.

I bought my T-Bolt Sporter about 3 years ago. It's much more accurate than my friends savage, any of my rugers, and more so than my dads marlin. I haven't tried many different brands of ammo, but so far it isn't picky at all. And the straight pull bolt is just awesome. Too bad your experience hasn't been great with them.

[oldgutpile]

I have two of the newer models, and an original Belgian. All shoot fine with regular factory ammo (bucket of bullets and American eagle)
Quarter size or better accuracy at normal 25 and 50 yard benches. None of them compare to the Winchester 52, but I'm not about to drag it around the gopher patch any time soon either!

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Dean2

All three I tried were the thin barrel versions but my old Tbolt is a thin barrel as well, and so are my CZs and a couple of my Anschutz. All I can figure is Browning has tuned up their barrel quality, and I am glad to hear it. May have to get a new one and give it a try. A guy can never have too many LH 22s.

Never have too many 22's! haha

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by oldgutpile

I have two of the newer models, and an original Belgian. All shoot fine with regular factory ammo (bucket of bullets and American eagle)
Quarter size or better accuracy at normal 25 and 50 yard benches. None of them compare to the Winchester 52, but I'm not about to drag it around the gopher patch any time soon either!

I am not looking to start an argument and I appreciate you posting the group sizes you are seeing. Take a look at the ammo test target I posted above. The whole black circle is the size of a quarter and those were all shoot at 50 yards with run of the mill 22 LR ammo and a CZ 452 American that had not been bedded yet. If the new T-Bolts are shooting groups that are as big as those circles at 50 yards, let alone that big at 25 yards, then I personally don't consider that very good for a bolt action 22. That would be about on par with the ones I got rid of 20 years ago, and no where close to what the Belgian T-Bolt, CZ or Anschutz I have will shoot. Thanks, I think you saved me buying another one to try out.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Dean2

I am not looking to start an argument and I appreciate you posting the group sizes you are seeing. Take a look at the ammo test target I posted above. The whole black circle is the size of a quarter and those were all shoot at 50 yards with run of the mill 22 LR ammo and a CZ 452 American that had not been bedded yet. If the new T-Bolts are shooting groups that are as big as those circles at 50 yards, let alone that big at 25 yards, then I personally don't consider that very good for a bolt action 22. That would be about on par with the ones I got rid of 20 years ago, and no where close to what the Belgian T-Bolt, CZ or Anschutz I have will shoot. Thanks, I think you saved me buying another one to try out.

I can light a match stick 4/5 times in a row with my 22 at 25 yards. I don't shoot for groups though so not sure what that would be, I just shoot to have fun shooting so accuracy isn't king to me so I use cheap ammo. I am still mad at my CZ for scratching my cleaning rod. Bore guide on those recommended. haha

[6.5 shooter]

Like I said earlier....shot at a hundred yards ( I think you will be surprised). how "well" the cheap ammo flies.

As for cheap ammo being more cost effective.... if rounds cost .10 cents vs .05 cents...but you need to shoot three more .05 cent rounds to hit the target then your loosing money....Or at least that is how I see it.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

Like I said earlier....shot at a hundred yards ( I think you will be surprised). how "well" the cheap ammo flies.

As for cheap ammo being more cost effective.... if rounds cost .10 cents vs .05 cents...but you need to shoot three more .05 cent rounds to hit the target then your loosing money....Or at least that is how I see it.

Just sneak up on the gophers a bit closer! A little more spot and stock action! Haha

[waldedw]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Just sneak up on the gophers a bit closer! A little more spot and stock action! Haha

yup that's it, I would bet that 95% of shots on gophers with 22's are under 75 yards, at least mine are, that's why I sight them in dead on at 50 yards

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by waldedw

yup that's it, I would bet that 95% of shots on gophers with 22's are under 75 yards, at least mine are, that's why I sight them in dead on at 50 yards

95% or more. No need to shoot that far with expensive ammo. Too many in the fields to use expensive ammo on a gopher!

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by Dean2

I am not looking to start an argument and I appreciate you posting the group sizes you are seeing. Take a look at the ammo test target I posted above. The whole black circle is the size of a quarter and those were all shoot at 50 yards with run of the mill 22 LR ammo and a CZ 452 American that had not been bedded yet. If the new T-Bolts are shooting groups that are as big as those circles at 50 yards, let alone that big at 25 yards, then I personally don't consider that very good for a bolt action 22. That would be about on par with the ones I got rid of 20 years ago, and no where close to what the Belgian T-Bolt, CZ or Anschutz I have will shoot. Thanks, I think you saved me buying another one to try out.

I appreciate this point. I’m looking for an accurate gun, much less than a quarter at 50 yards.

I did consider a browning though as I’d heard good things but seriously weeding through the opinions all over the net is difficult.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

I appreciate this point. I’m looking for an accurate gun, much less than a quarter at 50 yards.

I did consider a browning though as I’d heard good things but seriously weeding through the opinions all over the net is difficult.

If you decide to go with a CZ. I have an extra Thumbhole varmint heavy barrel if you go that route.

[260 Rem]

I have a lot to learn about RimFire .22’s but I have/had some decent shooters ... About 18 years ago I bought a new CZ452 American and after testing a lot of different brands of ammunition, settled on Winchester Power Point which routinely put 5 shots into a tad less than 1/2” at 50M. I was shooting lots if gophers in those days and an 80% kill ratio out to 100M was the norm. After about 10 years, something changed with the Power Points and accuracy fell off a bit so I went with an Anschutz 1710HB which was more accurate than the CZ, but only with “match” grade solid point ammo so I sold the rifle, but missed the accuracy so purchased another 1710HB...again a good shooter and again...with match ammo...so I sold it as well. About 6 years ago as gophers got scarce in my hunting area, I bought a Volquartzen semi HB which is a “match” version of the 10/22 action. It too is a good shooter for a semi with 50M groups consistently under 1/2”.
I’ve decided to start shooting a higher volume of RimFire this year and will likely do a build on the CZ American action. Of course, I expect the build on the bolt action will well surpass the VQ. Going to need to develop a bit more patience in wind.

[oldgutpile]

Originally Posted by Dean2

I am not looking to start an argument and I appreciate you posting the group sizes you are seeing. Take a look at the ammo test target I posted above. The whole black circle is the size of a quarter and those were all shoot at 50 yards with run of the mill 22 LR ammo and a CZ 452 American that had not been bedded yet. If the new T-Bolts are shooting groups that are as big as those circles at 50 yards, let alone that big at 25 yards, then I personally don't consider that very good for a bolt action 22. That would be about on par with the ones I got rid of 20 years ago, and no where close to what the Belgian T-Bolt, CZ or Anschutz I have will shoot. Thanks, I think you saved me buying another one to try out.

Yes, I was probably being lazy or generic with the quarter analogy. I find quarter size "adequate" with mixed factory at the 50 yards, but they would definitely all shoot dime size or smaller at the 25 if I do my part. The win 52 shoots one jagged little hole at the 25.

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by oldgutpile

Yes, I was probably being lazy or generic with the quarter analogy. I find quarter size "adequate" with mixed factory at the 50 yards, but they would definitely all shoot dime size or smaller at the 25 if I do my part. The win 52 shoots one jagged little hole at the 25.

And to give you some credit it’s a bit more accurate than most of your doubles but not as much fun.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

I need a .22! I’m looking for the most bang for the buck gopher and paper killer.
Like a serious one.... I’ve been looking at some of the Anshutz models but there must be something almost as accurate that’s around $600.00 so.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

Lots of good quality used .22 out there. I had recently been on the hunt for an accurate 22 wrm and looked at the 457 (very nice) for around $600 + tax, but ended up with a used Anschutz for $680 shipped. Virtually identical price.
I would do a little research on Walther or Krico before you purchase anything, and like another pointed out, try out a variety of shells. I've been amazed at what a difference the various Eley .22 have made.

[oldgutpile]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

And to give you some credit it’s a bit more accurate than most of your doubles but not as much fun.

The doubles are a lot more fun, but I am quite happy with 2" groups!

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

95% or more. No need to shoot that far with expensive ammo. Too many in the fields to use expensive ammo on a gopher!

Those big old "mountain gophers" are a LOT bigger target then our little prairie gophers...especially after a hatch...there not much bigger then a field mouse.

So ya accuracy is important..

[Groundhogger]

I'd love to try/test one of the new Tikka 1X rifles but until I do, I can't really comment on them. However, like others have said..for $600 you'd be hard-pressed to beat CZ. I'm a fan of the 452/453 rifles and as long as those can be had, the newer models (455/457) are no temptation. Well, they are...but you now. lol

I actually fly to Alberta to shoot gophers about every other year, and 2020 is an "on" year. My go-to for that is my 452 Varmint, as most of the shooting is prone with a bipod. There are times I wish I had something lighter for off-hand shots, but they're the exception anyway. Long days in the gopher field make me like the varmint model a little less as the day goes on..but by morning, the love is back. lol Semis have never been much of a temptation and for that "discipline"...I'm surprised so many guys like them. But then, I like to clean the gun at the end of every day and well...that gets tedious with a semi.

I own very few 22s compared to even a few years ago, basically...2 x CZ 452s and 2 Anschutz. One of the Anshcutz is an older youth model, the newer is a heavy barrel 64 MPR "Tactical Trainer". With ammo it shoots well, it's far easier to get great results with the 64 than it is with the CZs. The weight of the 64 and the amazing trigger are probably the biggest factors. That gun is too heavy for anything but bench/target work..but it would be fun to try out there on gophers. The only real "negative" (if you can call it that) with the Anschutz I've owned and shot is this-the variety of ammo they tend to shoot well is VERY small compared to the CZs. I'd feel handicapped with my 64 out there if I couldn't get the ammo it likes. I'm reasonably sure my CZs would eclipse it accuracy-wise if I had to scramble to find ammo and/or feed it a variety.

Savages-haven't shot the new B series guns, but I do like the look of them. I've had a few Savage 22 bolt guns (Mark II, Rascal) and they're pretty decent shooters. You still have to test lots of ammo to see what they'll shoot best, and my experience with them is that they don't shoot to CZ level, let alone Anschutz. Maybe the copies I had weren't the best.

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by Groundhogger

lol Semis have never been much of a temptation and for that "discipline"...I'm surprised so many guys like them. But then, I like to clean the gun at the end of every day and well...that gets tedious with a semi.

I used to think the same .....but too many times while cycling the bolt after a missed shot, I hear buddy’s .22 bark, followed by that familiar “pop” ...and then a chuckle as he says “thought you might need help with that one” . The VQ pretty much shuts that nonsense down!

[Dean2]

Groundhogger

I have a left hand single shot model 64 silhouette/target rifle with the heavy barrel and stock that I have used for years shooting gophers. I primarily shoot off a table and chair setup so I don't find the Anschutz any handicap at all. It will shoot my favourite gopher load, Winchester Xpert High Velocity hollow points into noticeably smaller groups than my best shooting CZ, particularly at 100+ yards. The trigger on these is amazing and after a long day of shooting you do notice the difference. It would however not make a good walking around gun and for that I have a model 64 LH sporter that with scope only weighs about 6.5 to 7 pounds. It is nearly as accurate as the target model to 75 yards but not near as light a trigger. I think you should bring the Annie along on the next trip and give it a try. I think you will be surprised just how great they work.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by saddleup

Anschutz

This is the one,expensive though.

[graybeard]

I have the CZ normal barrel and it shoot the lights out, but if I was to re purchase I would get the heavy barrel..... it just stabilizes so fast....

IMHO...

[kostianych]

Don't forget a Norinco NS522..... great rifle for the money

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by kostianych

Don't forget a Norinco NS522..... great rifle for the money

They sound pretty decent... haven’t seen one for sale for a long time

[Big Sky]

Originally Posted by Groundhogger

The only real "negative" (if you can call it that) with the Anschutz I've owned and shot is this-the variety of ammo they tend to shoot well is VERY small compared to the CZs.

Agree. Some rifles will handle a wider variety of ammo with relative ease. Some will have some issues that a shooter just has to deal with.

My Anschutz will send its first shot a little high and then it settles right in. It's not bad enough that you'd miss a gopher at 50yds, but it's quite noticeable at 100.
There's a lot of info on 'first shot flier' on the web.

[Big Sky]

Warning!! Potentially offensive material.


I always take accuracy claims with a grain of salt. I don't see a lot of groups at the range that match the claims that you see online.
When I hear accuracy claims (even mine), I get the urge to bring out the bingo card.
Hopefully you get a chuckle. Pretty sure we could all use a laugh these days.

[sako1]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Based on my experience with their centerfires, I believe Tikka will be very accurate, but I have never fired one. But I have owned several CZ rimfires that were very accurate. You can often find great deals on older Anschutz 54 single shot rifles, but for ground squirrels, I much prefer a repeater.

How are they on gophers?

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Big Sky

Warning!! Potentially offensive material.


I always take accuracy claims with a grain of salt. I don't see a lot of groups at the range that match the claims that you see online.
When I hear accuracy claims (even mine), I get the urge to bring out the bingo card.
Hopefully you get a chuckle. Pretty sure we could all use a laugh these days.

I like it!!!. IF you claim a certain level of accuracy you should have to post three targets on the same paper, or even three targets shot with the same gun, that prove it. Kind of like one of the challenges that was posted on here a while back.