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View Poll Results: Should handgun hunting be permitted?
yes, unrestricted. 120 51.50%
yes, but with special testing requirements. 51 21.89%
yes, but only for grouse. 1 0.43%
yes, but within it's own season. 14 6.01%
yes, but within the primitive season 9 3.86%
yes, but only for grouse. 0 0%
no. never. 35 15.02%
undecided. 11 4.72%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 233. You may not vote on this poll

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  #151  
Old 01-01-2012, 08:48 PM
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"A gun free world is just that, gun free. Its not murder free, accident free, violence free or safer....it's just gun free."

Element. Do this and then try driving through the ghettos in Louisiana


"I'm just guessing you didn't grow up in Louisiana and experience such awful gun violence. Driving through the ghetto with your seat laid back just in case..."

Everyday I learn something on this board. Today I learned of a guy who believes that ghetto violence is caused by handgun hunting. Who knew?
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  #152  
Old 01-01-2012, 08:49 PM
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Funny, you should mention it... I posted my rifle for sale on the forum last week. It's still for sale if you're interested?

Come on Redfrog... Do you really think I'm that naive... Please try to avoid comments like that...

Last edited by Element; 01-01-2012 at 08:55 PM.
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  #153  
Old 01-01-2012, 08:50 PM
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Additional training for everyone or just those who would choose to hunt with the short-barreled guns? If the latter, .....why, I wonder?
because rifles and hand guns are not the same. if they were yourbasic pal would cover you to buy hand guns now. how you train with and operate them are not the same . charges are not as heavy in most common hand guns , shorter barrel would make for different ballistics.it would make sense to have some additional training for people planning on shooting game rather than paper at 25yards. not a big deal bud.
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  #154  
Old 01-01-2012, 08:54 PM
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maybe grand father everyone now that has a restricted license and hunting course. in the future at some given date add the extra training for the young ones coming up.
Why grandfather anyone? If the up and coming people really need extra training, everybody should have it. Too many people seem to be in favor of extra training, as long as they don't have to take it themselves.

Quote:
Funny, you shoud mention it... I posted my rifle for sale on the forum last week. It's still for sale if you're interested?
If you true dream is a gun free world, why don't you just destroy it, so there is one less gun in the world?
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  #155  
Old 01-01-2012, 08:56 PM
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Yanno this thread would have been a lot shorter with much more consensus of opinion if there weren't so many options to choose from for an answer.

It should have read:


"Should handgun hunting be allowed......pick one......YES.
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  #156  
Old 01-01-2012, 09:07 PM
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because rifles and hand guns are not the same. if they were yourbasic pal would cover you to buy hand guns now.
You assume there are rational reasons, based on fact, for those distinctions in our PAL gun control laws. I can't find it and I've done a lot of research. Instead, what I've found, for instance, is that Liberal Cabinet Ministers sat around a table with a gun catalogue one day and banned all the black, scary ones. I am not OK with laws being made that way and I am certainly not OK with folks saying, 10 yrs. later, that because such dummass decisions were made way back when, that's a good reason to uphold them now. Not only is your logic circular - which is reason enough to reject it - but the scheme of our gun control laws appears to have been created by uninformed clowns.

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how you train with and operate them are not the same . charges are not as heavy in most common hand guns , shorter barrel would make for different ballistics.
Correct. The ballistics of the short guns are indeed different.

I take it than that you also support different training for magnum rifles? As well as rifles with longer barrels. Lever actions. Short actions as opposed to long actions? Compound bows as opposed to long bows? .....Do you see my point here?

Quote:
..it would make sense to have some additional training for people planning on shooting game rather than paper at 25yards. not a big deal bud.
Your reasoning is irrational. I think it is irrational simply because someone said "pistol". Irrational thinking in law-making is indeed a big deal; particularly when we are talking about criminal laws enforced by the powers of the State and the police. It's quite a big deal, actually.
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  #157  
Old 01-01-2012, 09:07 PM
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any questions about effectiveness on big game can be seen here. unfortunately, its a promo vid so it doesnt actually show the kill shot, but when i saw it on the US based outdoor channel, the bull dropped instantly at the shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_EvNdQ2HUc

this one does show it. if you dont know, an eland bull can easily weigh 1500 pounds. sorry to post an sci influenced vid, but it illustrates the topic here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPQ-VOXk2z8


im looking hard for stats for handgun hunting. i cant find it broken down though. i am only coming up with hunting numbers and handgun numbers.....but not both at once.

Last edited by ishootbambi; 01-01-2012 at 09:30 PM.
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  #158  
Old 01-01-2012, 09:18 PM
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Funny, you should mention it... I posted my rifle for sale on the forum last week. It's still for sale if you're interested?
..
That would be the perfect rifle to turn in for destruction. It's expensive and would show a lot of dedication to getting rid of firearms in Canada.

I'm willing to bet that if you were to get it destroyed, the Coalition for Gun Control, the Liberals and NDP would love it. They would probably have TV cameras there and make a national gun control hero over night.

You could tell other gun owners "if I can do it, so can you".

You could really make a difference here. So far, gun owners have been winning this debate. You could really put some pressure on and get Bill C-19 a re-think.

This might be quite an opportunity for you. Dont take it lightly. Wiilingly giving up your personal property for what you believe in would make a huge impact. Turning in your PAL would be the icing on the cake.
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  #159  
Old 01-01-2012, 09:20 PM
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As I clearly admitted in my previous comment, I really do enjoy rifle hunting No guns, especially handguns, would just be my "perfect utopia", but I clearly understand it's not going to happen. I choose to never own a handgun in my life. I think Canada has done well in restricting handguns to this point. It's scary walking around Louisiana/Texas knowing the soccer moms are even packing heat. I hope Canada never gets to that point in the name of "hunting" or "personal protection".
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  #160  
Old 01-01-2012, 09:24 PM
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Element; I'm sure that you saw your share of gang violence and misused firearms down in Louisiana. My family lived in Tyler Texas for about a decade, and I visited them a few times (I was older than my siblings and out of the parents house at that point). I visited Louisiana on two of those occasions. I think it would be fair to say that the primary cause of the gun violence there is not the guns, but the desperately poor people and the rampant substance abuse. Sure this could tie back to the economy to a point, but lots of it would also tie to the poor education rate and many other factors. The guns don't aim and discharge themselves, they are a symptom of a much larger social problem that we're fortunate to have relatively little of up here in Alberta. Without guns those same people would be resorting to more stabbing, bludgeoning and beating to accomplish their killing. Your understandable bias against handguns is projecting responsibility on an inanimate object.

When the major flooding hit Louisiana about 6-7 or so years back a lot of refugees hit Tyler to escape and there was a spike in the crime rate. Unemployable people who were escaping the nothing they had in New Orleans simply continued their lifestyles and means of support where the ground was a little more dry.
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  #161  
Old 01-01-2012, 09:27 PM
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That would be the perfect rifle to turn in for destruction. It's expensive and would show a lot of dedication to getting rid of firearms in Canada.
Obviously he is not that dedicated to his cause.


Quote:
It's scary walking around Louisiana/Texas knowing the soccer moms are even packing heat.
Unless you were threatening them in some way, what would you have to fear from those "soccer moms" being armed?
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  #162  
Old 01-01-2012, 09:33 PM
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CaberTosser: Couldn't agree with you more, it's the people not the guns that kill. I get that... However the guns do enable a particular type of violence to occur which can put innocent lives into jeopardy. Let the gangs kill each other with knives and beat each other to death, but at least there will be no innocent lives taken in crossfire.
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  #163  
Old 01-01-2012, 10:10 PM
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It's scary walking around Louisiana/Texas knowing the soccer moms are even packing heat. I hope Canada never gets to that point in the name of "hunting" or "personal protection".
It is a documented fact that CCW laws in the U.S. have lowered violent crime and murder rates. That's the reason it spread from Florida to virtually every State now. It's the reason U.S. murder rates are now back to levels not seen since the '60's. It's the reason I can point you to many northern Right-to-Carry States with murder rates that are, year after year, lower than Alberta. Lower than Saskatchewan. Lower than Manitoba. That's also the reason it was a woman who said: "God made Man. Sam Colt made them equal."

Most Canadians are utterly ignorant when it comes to facts and truth about handguns. Lots of huffy opinions, but precious little knowledge.

You would sacrifice the safety of others to indulge your ideology. That's the only part of this discussion that I find scary. Well, repulsive would more truthful I guess.

Here's what someone who knows, firsthand, what he's talking about has to say about soccer moms and "packing heat". My daughters would certainly be safer living under his direction than under yours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3HGZKnx_oA

Unlike you, this Sheriff has dealt with crime victims and criminals. He lives in the real world. You live in your head.
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  #164  
Old 01-01-2012, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocky7 View Post
Here's what someone who knows, firsthand, what he's talking about has to say about soccer moms and "packing heat". My daughters would certainly be safer living under his direction than under yours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3HGZKnx_oA

Unlike you, this Sheriff has dealt with crime victims and criminals. He lives in the real world. You live in your head.
Love the video. I totally agree with this sheriff.
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  #165  
Old 01-01-2012, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocky7 View Post
It is a documented fact that CCW laws in the U.S. have lowered violent crime and murder rates. That's the reason it spread from Florida to virtually every State now. It's the reason U.S. murder rates are now back to levels not seen since the '60's. It's the reason I can point you to many northern Right-to-Carry States with murder rates that are, year after year, lower than Alberta. Lower than Saskatchewan. Lower than Manitoba. That's also the reason it was a woman who said: "God made Man. Sam Colt made them equal."

Most Canadians are utterly ignorant when it comes to facts and truth about handguns. Lots of huffy opinions, but precious little knowledge.

You would sacrifice the safety of others to indulge your ideology. That's the only part of this discussion that I find scary. Well, repulsive would more truthful I guess.

Here's what someone who knows, firsthand, what he's talking about has to say about soccer moms and "packing heat". My daughters would certainly be safer living under his direction than under yours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3HGZKnx_oA

Unlike you, this Sheriff has dealt with crime victims and criminals. He lives in the real world. You live in your head.
Show me your stats to back this up... In today's world you can really find stats to back up whatever opinion you want to have, just like science. Ask Green Peace... they can always find a science to disprove yours...

I know that my grandfather always slept with a pistol under his pillow and dad has always kept a hand gun in his bedroom, and not because they live in the ghetto, quite the opposite actually. However they sleep close to a gun for protection, Americans live in fear constantly, this is why they choose to carry guns. I appreciate that I don't have to feel this fear or anxiety in Canada.

Are you always going trust some guy off you tube or can you say you've actually lived in the states and experienced this life for yourself?
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  #166  
Old 01-01-2012, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by CaberTosser View Post
Element; I'm sure that you saw your share of gang violence and misused firearms down in Louisiana. My family lived in Tyler Texas for about a decade, and I visited them a few times (I was older than my siblings and out of the parents house at that point). I visited Louisiana on two of those occasions. I think it would be fair to say that the primary cause of the gun violence there is not the guns, but the desperately poor people and the rampant substance abuse. Sure this could tie back to the economy to a point, but lots of it would also tie to the poor education rate and many other factors. The guns don't aim and discharge themselves, they are a symptom of a much larger social problem that we're fortunate to have relatively little of up here in Alberta. Without guns those same people would be resorting to more stabbing, bludgeoning and beating to accomplish their killing. Your understandable bias against handguns is projecting responsibility on an inanimate object.

When the major flooding hit Louisiana about 6-7 or so years back a lot of refugees hit Tyler to escape and there was a spike in the crime rate. Unemployable people who were escaping the nothing they had in New Orleans simply continued their lifestyles and means of support where the ground was a little more dry.
Totally agree with this. Alberta, for example, would more likely emulate states such as Montana in terms of reality in handgun use and misuse.
I find it very unfortunate that people just can't seem to wrap their head around social behaviour and the misuse of any weapon type whether it be a short gun, a knife or simply their mouth!
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  #167  
Old 01-01-2012, 11:08 PM
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Americans live in fear constantly, this is why they choose to carry guns. I appreciate that I don't have to feel this fear or anxiety in Canada.
Let me tell you id rather have a concealed firearms when i walk in the streets of Montreal. Some place are peaceful... some are not. Too many punks to trust my life on Police nowaday.
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  #168  
Old 01-01-2012, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jaylow? View Post
because rifles and hand guns are not the same. if they were yourbasic pal would cover you to buy hand guns now. how you train with and operate them are not the same . charges are not as heavy in most common hand guns , shorter barrel would make for different ballistics.it would make sense to have some additional training for people planning on shooting game rather than paper at 25yards. not a big deal bud.

So if most new gun owners and hunters start of wit a 12 guage and a 22. does that mean the must be recertified to hunt with a 338 win mag and 3 1/2" mag 10 guage? a fire is a fire arm regardless of shape and size. Whats the difference in starting with 22 pistol and moving up in size vs 22 rifle and moving up in size. Either way you have to learn the ballistics and limits of the round and what you can and can not do with it. Dont think many guys are gonna try a 700 yard shot on a deer with a 9mm. If they do its gonna be the same guy rry the shot with a 30-30. again aonther example of punish everyone because 1 guy got dropped on his head as a baby
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  #169  
Old 01-02-2012, 12:36 AM
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A gun is a gun,handgun,long gun whatever
Alot of silly posts on here about a safer world,bla,bla,bla, but nothing to do with handgun hunting.
Why would I hunt with a handgun??
Because it is a firearm,plain and simple.
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  #170  
Old 01-02-2012, 05:38 AM
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Show me your stats to back this up...
Buy a book called "More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott. Read it.

Then, if you manage to convince yourself that he is wrong, regardless of the fact that he mined data from every U.S. county over years and he's a professional number cruncher, go here:

http://www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/opus1638/Young_people

where you will find that a left-leaning group of academics who reviewed gun control laws and crime on a world-wide basis found that:

- registration does not work.
- licencing does not work.
- gun bans do not work.
- gun buy-back programmes do nothing.

And so on. and so on. and so on.

The next time you hear firm opinions opposed to your own, don't start squawking like a young bird with it's beak open demanding to be fed. Do your own research. Pry your mind open.

This thread isn't about handguns and crime. I am raising this only because we hear, yet again, the same old tired horse**** from liberal smart alecks who either have no facts or have "facts" they cooked up or picked up at some progressive circle jerk. Is that rough? Maybe. I'm just bloody tired of listening to busybodies who don't know anything telling me what I can and cannot do and justifying their limitations on my freedom with rubbish.

Now, how about you stop the misdirections and just explain, clearly and rationally, why you are opposed. If it's some unspecified fear of handguns, this is a good place to talk about it. You get the added benefit of anonymity.
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  #171  
Old 01-02-2012, 05:51 AM
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Alberta, for example, would more likely emulate states such as Montana in terms of reality in handgun use and misuse.
I wanted to get this back to handgun hunting, but since you mentioned Montana....

I did some research a while back in connection with some submissions I made to government on Bill C-391.

The murder rate in the State of Montana (a "right to carry" state) from 2005-2008 was 1.9 per 100,000.
The rate in Alberta over the same years was 2.9 per 100,000.

50% higher murder rate here in AB than they have in MT.

I used those years because they were the latest available at the time. I used FBI Uniform Crime Statistics on the U.S. side. Here, I had to buy the stats from Stats Canada.

Now, here's the kicker - it turns out the FBI tracks "homicide". That includes justified killings like self-defence. I think it might also include suicide, but I never could nail that down. Here in Canada, we track only murder and we leave out self-defence, police killing and suicide.

Therefore, if we were able to compare apples to apples, MT is a much more than 50% safer than AB.

Thought some of you might be interested in those facts. Back to hunting.
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  #172  
Old 01-02-2012, 06:48 AM
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Default Wisconsin Handgun Hunting Regs

I thought it would be interesting to see how some States handle hunting with a handgun. They don't have the same pistol phobias we do and have a lot more experience in the field.

Here's how a midwest State (Wisconsin) regulates handgun hunting:

Handguns
• To be legal for deer hunting, handguns must use center-fire cartridges of .22 caliber or larger and have a 51⁄2" minimum barrel length measured from the firing pin to the muzzle with the action closed.
• You may not possess a concealed handgun unless you are authorized by law to possess a concealed handgun in Wisconsin.
• Muzzleloading handguns, see “Muzzleloaders,” above.
• It is illegal to hunt with a handgun if under age 18.


Make sense?

Seems to me that .23 might be tad small but I guess you have to allow for upland birds and a partridge shot with a big bore handgun probably isn't going to amount to much unless you can hit it in the head.

Should there be separate requirements for different game animals?
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  #173  
Old 01-02-2012, 07:34 AM
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Show me your stats to back this up... In today's world you can really find stats to back up whatever opinion you want to have, just like science. Ask Green Peace... they can always find a science to disprove yours...

I know that my grandfather always slept with a pistol under his pillow and dad has always kept a hand gun in his bedroom, and not because they live in the ghetto, quite the opposite actually. However they sleep close to a gun for protection, Americans live in fear constantly, this is why they choose to carry guns. I appreciate that I don't have to feel this fear or anxiety in Canada.

Are you always going trust some guy off you tube or can you say you've actually lived in the states and experienced this life for yourself?

But obviously you do live in fear, fear of guns. A piece of metal and bits of plastic. An inanimate object. Canada is jam packed full of guns, that your fear is irrational matters not. Somehow you have convinced yourself that guns longer than 26 inches are safe, and handguns are dangerous. That handguns in the hands of law abiding citizens will make you scared to go out. You obviously cannot be scared of criminals in Canada with handguns, because they clearly already have them as you can see on the news every night. But somehow, someway you have convinced yourself that your friends, neighbours, and fellow law abiding citizens are incapable of responsibly owning handguns. Rifles, begrudingly, but not handguns.

The liberal mind and how it works is truly a mystery to me.

And by the way. I know lots of Americans, and they don't live in fear constantly. Even those that carry guns for protection don't live in fear. Is someone that has a fire extinguisher and fire insurance living in constant fear of fire? Is someone that wears a seatbelt, living in constant fear of dying in a car crash?

Last edited by rugatika; 01-02-2012 at 07:39 AM.
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  #174  
Old 01-02-2012, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Rocky7 View Post
I wanted to get this back to handgun hunting, but since you mentioned Montana....

I did some research a while back in connection with some submissions I made to government on Bill C-391.

The murder rate in the State of Montana (a "right to carry" state) from 2005-2008 was 1.9 per 100,000.
The rate in Alberta over the same years was 2.9 per 100,000.

50% higher murder rate here in AB than they have in MT.

I used those years because they were the latest available at the time. I used FBI Uniform Crime Statistics on the U.S. side. Here, I had to buy the stats from Stats Canada.

Now, here's the kicker - it turns out the FBI tracks "homicide". That includes justified killings like self-defence. I think it might also include suicide, but I never could nail that down. Here in Canada, we track only murder and we leave out self-defence, police killing and suicide.

Therefore, if we were able to compare apples to apples, MT is a much more than 50% safer than AB.

Thought some of you might be interested in those facts. Back to hunting.
Ahhh, exactly as I suspected. You've made the numbers say exactly what you wanted them to say. You are not comparing apples to apples in using Montana. Montana's largest city, Billings, has a population of just over a 100,000. The entire state itself, has a population of only about a 1MM people, spread out over a huge area. Let's talk urban crime per capita since 2/3 of Alberta's population live in cities with over a 1MM people. Please show me the crime stats using a comparison of cities of at least 1MM. Crime rates per capita significantly increase in densely populated areas.

Last edited by Element; 01-02-2012 at 07:54 AM.
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:46 AM
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[ I think Canada has done well in restricting handguns to this point. It's scary walking around Louisiana/Texas knowing the soccer moms are even packing heat. I hope Canada never gets to that point in the name of "hunting" or "personal protection".[/QUOTE]

X2

Very good point but it will be wasted on most of the people on here. People that say a gun is a gun is a gun may be technically right but they are oh so wrong when it comes to the real world and how the people out in the real world see gun. I am not talking about the little world of this form where even on here 15% did not want hand gun hunting. Now some one said on here that 15% is not a significant number and that just shows you how out of touch they are with reality. If 15% of the people on this very very pro gun form are against it I would bet that would translate into over 90 % of the general population being against it. Now people may say that just because 90% are against it that does not mean we should not have it. But those people tend to be the same people that say, see the poll on this form agrees with them there for they must be right.
Like I said if you can't see how making it legal to hunt with hand guns will lead to more restrictions on long guns in the end then you are to far out in left field to explain it to.
Lets just keep the hand guns on a totally separate playing field from our hunting rifles.
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:48 AM
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But obviously you do live in fear, fear of guns. A piece of metal and bits of plastic. An inanimate object. Canada is jam packed full of guns, that your fear is irrational matters not. Somehow you have convinced yourself that guns longer than 26 inches are safe, and handguns are dangerous. That handguns in the hands of law abiding citizens will make you scared to go out. You obviously cannot be scared of criminals in Canada with handguns, because they clearly already have them as you can see on the news every night. But somehow, someway you have convinced yourself that your friends, neighbours, and fellow law abiding citizens are incapable of responsibly owning handguns. Rifles, begrudingly, but not handguns.

The liberal mind and how it works is truly a mystery to me.

And by the way. I know lots of Americans, and they don't live in fear constantly. Even those that carry guns for protection don't live in fear. Is someone that has a fire extinguisher and fire insurance living in constant fear of fire? Is someone that wears a seatbelt, living in constant fear of dying in a car crash?
Watch the Houston, TX news for a few months and then watch Calgary's news for a month... Have you lived it.. Have you truly experienced life in the States for a few years, or is it just what you see and read on the news...
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Element View Post
Ahhh, exactly as I suspected. You've made the numbers say exactly what you wanted them to say.
They're numbers. They speak for themselves.

Quote:
You are not comparing apples to apples in using Montana. Montana's largest city, Billings, has a population of just over a 100,000......
Uh, huh. You left out the important distinction that Montana starts with an "M" while Alberta starts with an "A". I offer that subtle distinction for you in case you even find yourself backed into a corner and running out of apple pie. You could try that as a last resort.

It's the same with New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah, Maine, Vermont, Oregon, Wyoming, Minnesota, Idaho and Washington - for openers.

Instead of grasping at straws to support your ideology, do some research. I mentioned a book "More Guns, Less Crime". All your objections are debunked there (and elsewhere).
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  #178  
Old 01-02-2012, 08:01 AM
Element Element is offline
 
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Originally Posted by rugatika View Post
But obviously you do live in fear, fear of guns. A piece of metal and bits of plastic. An inanimate object. Canada is jam packed full of guns, that your fear is irrational matters not. Somehow you have convinced yourself that guns longer than 26 inches are safe, and handguns are dangerous. That handguns in the hands of law abiding citizens will make you scared to go out. You obviously cannot be scared of criminals in Canada with handguns, because they clearly already have them as you can see on the news every night. But somehow, someway you have convinced yourself that your friends, neighbours, and fellow law abiding citizens are incapable of responsibly owning handguns. Rifles, begrudingly, but not handguns.

The liberal mind and how it works is truly a mystery to me.

And by the way. I know lots of Americans, and they don't live in fear constantly. Even those that carry guns for protection don't live in fear. Is someone that has a fire extinguisher and fire insurance living in constant fear of fire? Is someone that wears a seatbelt, living in constant fear of dying in a car crash?
Then why do they feel the need to carry a handgun...? You said they carry it for protection. Are they fearful of something... Yes, I get home insurance because I fear my house will burn down. The root cause... fear. Keep diggin' your hole...
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  #179  
Old 01-02-2012, 08:06 AM
Element Element is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Rocky7 View Post
They're numbers. They speak for themselves.



Uh, huh. You left out the important distinction that Montana starts with an "M" while Alberta starts with an "A". I offer that subtle distinction for you in case you even find yourself backed into a corner and running out of apple pie. You could try that as a last resort.

It's the same with New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah, Maine, Vermont, Oregon, Wyoming, Minnesota, Idaho and Washington - for openers.

Instead of grasping at straws to support your ideology, do some research. I mentioned a book "More Guns, Less Crime". All your objections are debunked there (and elsewhere).
Grasping at straws.. really... I've asked you to show me the proof. I've given you the opportunity to prove me wrong. The data you've shown is embarrassing as it shows you do not truly understand how to conduct comparative research. I honestly really want to believe you but just can't at this point. You've pretty much picked out states that don't have large population centers over a 1MM, again making that data say what you want. Show me data of cities, not states, as that's where most of us live.
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  #180  
Old 01-02-2012, 08:11 AM
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Rocky7 Rocky7 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Element View Post
Grasping at straws.. really... I've asked you to show me the proof. I've given you the opportunity to prove me wrong. The data you've shown is embarrassing as it shows you do not truly understand how to conduct comparative research. I honestly really want to believe you but just can't at this point. You've pretty much picked out states that don't have large population centers over a 1MM, again making that data say what you want. Show me data of cities, not states, as that's where most of us live.
Can the shallow insults if you want to have a conversation with me.

I'm happy to exchange arguments. I believe you could learn something if you open your mind, but I won't tolerate rude behaviour. I'm not "grasping" at anything; I'm offering FACTS.

Have you read any of Lott's work? Kleck? Anybody?
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