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  #61  
Old 03-25-2015, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Dmcbride....I will repeat the ABA did not act alone they are part of AGMAG, the other stake holders collectively have more say than the ABA if a proposal is off base to the majority of the user groups, they can band against a single group and shoot down an idea they do not want to move forward.

For the record, I know spears and atlatl's have a very small following and the influence is going to be minimal....BUT as other hunting methods have rules/regs/ and minimums so should these methods.

LC

Lefty it's funny this thread has come up , I had a coffee yesterday with a guy that used to be on a board and was at the Agmag table . This was a few years back and he has since moved on.. We were discussing the changes to moose hunting and the 500's . His comment was us ESRD have already made up there minds Agmag is nothing more then a feel good front. On anyone issue they have the votes to go whichever way they feel... Look who is at the table, at anyone time ESRD can put any or all of them against each other quite effectively . He sat there and flat out told me on more the. One issue they were told how to vote.. It s about as corrupt a system as you could ever imagine with no accountability , they point fingers and say the advisory group wanted it this way, nothing could be further from truth. I take this man at his word he had nothing to gain by telling me this.
As for the ABA and the spear situation they should have consulted the general membership before speaking on behalf if them.. Simple
  #62  
Old 03-25-2015, 09:16 AM
FCLightning FCLightning is offline
 
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Dmcbride, assuming you are part of the Alberta Atlatl group....what are the rumblings from that organization?

LC
I don't think you need to be a member of the atlatl group to recognize that the actions of the ABA constituted a heinous crime against the whole of the hunting fraternity.
  #63  
Old 03-25-2015, 09:20 AM
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I don't think you need to be a member of the atlatl group to recognize that the actions of the ABA constituted a heinous crime against the whole of the hunting fraternity.
Oh brother....

Be nice if someone who actually belongs to the Atlatl group would speak up on their thoughts in regards to this.

LC
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  #64  
Old 03-25-2015, 09:23 AM
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just going to skip this thread but thanks for the info
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  #65  
Old 03-25-2015, 09:37 AM
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As for the ABA and the spear situation they should have consulted the general membership before speaking on behalf if them.. Simple
I wasn't a member at this time this all went down, and if they didn't consult with membership then yes I totally agree.

Another issue with ALL organizations is they put out newsletters that half the people don't read....the other half look at the pictures and half of that half read everything and 5% of that half of a half a half respond to requests for input....

I don't fully know how AGMAG is structured and works but if that group isn't making decisions or is not taken seriously and ESRD makes all the decisions regardless of input....then don't blame individual shareholders (eg. ABA) for anything

LC
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  #66  
Old 03-25-2015, 09:39 AM
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I don't think you need to be a member of the atlatl group to recognize that the actions of the ABA constituted a heinous crime against the whole of the hunting fraternity.
lol...a little dramatic there dont you think..archery itself stuggles to stay on the positive side of that fine line...associations work hard and been there since archery was proven effective to achieve and maintain that...

You honestly think that an archery association would team up with risky at best methods of hunting, that try to affilate with archery seasons would ever be supported...

Maybe if the Spear and Atlatl following worked a little closer with other associations this wouldnt be happening...

Neil
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  #67  
Old 03-25-2015, 09:43 AM
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Doesn't anyone know if spear, airgun, atlas,endurance and any other weapon (besides bows/guns/crossbows) hunting techniques and safety are taught in hunter education? I haven't taken it in 25+ years so I only remember guns being taught but I believe archery is now covered a bit (from what I've heard)
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  #68  
Old 03-25-2015, 10:00 AM
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Doesn't anyone know if spear, airgun, atlas,endurance and any other weapon (besides bows/guns/crossbows) hunting techniques and safety are taught in hunter education? I haven't taken it in 25+ years so I only remember guns being taught but I believe archery is now covered a bit (from what I've heard)
As an AAA Hunter Ed Instructor...all firearms [dont like the word weapon] including airgun and archery is covered in great detail...Spear and Atlatl...no!

As an Instructor for The International Bowhunter Education Program [IBEP] ...it is incorperated with hunter safety education program and is an extensive course all in itself...including actual and practical shooting

Neil
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  #69  
Old 03-25-2015, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by BigRackLover View Post
Doesn't anyone know if spear, airgun, atlas,endurance and any other weapon (besides bows/guns/crossbows) hunting techniques and safety are taught in hunter education? I haven't taken it in 25+ years so I only remember guns being taught but I believe archery is now covered a bit (from what I've heard)
Nothing about long range balistas or catapults either....

LC
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  #70  
Old 03-25-2015, 10:12 AM
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Default A Spear for me

With all of this Spear talk, now I have to go out and get me one! Think I will Call Tim so he can point me it the right direction.

Water Buffalo in Belize is what I am thinking

This will be my Spear Hunting theme song! Turn it up and enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUcPcGulXCA
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  #71  
Old 03-25-2015, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by 3blade View Post
As for restricting opportunities: the goal of sheephumper was to eliminate archery season by allowing crossbows (so pretty much anyone who can pull a trigger) into bow season. A couple years of that, harvest "stats" balloon, and everything goes on draw and no archery season. Anyone who wants to hunt with a bow risks getting shot because they are closer to an animal. He failed, and has been using his influence with the Afga to instigate problems.
Are you really suggesting crossbow users are going to go around shooting other hunters????? If so, what a stupid, dumbazz statement!

If so, I'd suggest you check out what using a crossbow is like. The same principles as conventional bowhunting apply. Gotta be close to the animal, in my case no further than 30-40 yards. Gotta pick your aim point just as carefully, etc., etc., etc.

I hear lots of 'talk' on this site where compound users brag about hitting pie plates at 100 yards, but I don't know of any crossbow users who do the same. It can be done, but certainly not ethically!
  #72  
Old 03-25-2015, 10:40 AM
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I hear lots of 'talk' on this site where compound users brag about hitting pie plates at 100 yards, but I don't know of any crossbow users who do the same. It can be done, but certainly not ethically!
Which archery guys here stated they could hit a pie plate at 100 and would take a hunting shot at that distance?

LC
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  #73  
Old 03-25-2015, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Dmcbride, assuming you are part of the Alberta Atlatl group....what are the rumblings from that organization?

LC
Not part of the Atlatl group. I believe it is Albertaatlatl who is heading the fight for atlatl's and put together a information package for the ABA to bring to the table. Here is a thread that has more information.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...=211709&page=4




I am a member of the AFGA and from what I have seen they do not support this ban.
  #74  
Old 03-25-2015, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow View Post
Wow ...didnt even know there was an Alberta Atlatl Association...web pages and all...

Again I didnt & dont know all the Particulars...

Also it is obvious there are members of the Atatl following here commenting...some likely not even bowhunters..which is fine!!!
and there will be no happy truce in disscussions here so we might as well drop it!

I personally dont have a problem with Spear and Atlatl if the members proved it was viable as a hunting tool ...and hunted in a primitive weapon season and area...

I am assuming that somewhere down the line that Spear and Atlatl was being compared to and maybe classed in archery and the archery season...

That would indeed stir the hornets nest...

Perhaps if the Spear and Atlatl following made themselves a little bit more well known and formed a stronger association and did somthing about it we wouldnt be talking about it...


I will support ABA in their decsion as they have done so much for bowhunters and post their sucess as an strong association below...


Some of ABA's success with assisting Bowhunting in Alberta

• Bowhunter education program.
• Liability insurance for clubs and individuals through Federation of Canadian Archers.
• Internationally Acclamed Game Awards Program for members.
• 3D Sanctioned Shoot program/Provincial Championship.
• Hunting For Tomorrow Foundation participating member.
• Resolution process to lobby government to improve and retain bowhunting regulations.

Successes include:
• Allow the use of camo clothing (1969).
• Allow the use of aluminum arrows (1970).
• Legalized bowfishing.
• Black bear baiting.
• Archery pre-season province wide (1976/77).
• Antelope archery season (1976/77).
• 410 and 408 Bighorn sheep season.
• Antlerless deer tags in 212 and 248.
• Antlerless elk tags in 212.
• Archery pre-season for elk (not requiring a draw).
• Archery only areas around Edmonton and Calgary (1975).
• Lobbied with other user groups for these seasons, even though they are not archery-only:
• Mountain Goat season.
• Primitive Weapons area in 357 (Saskatoon Mtn.)
• Cow moose draw in 357.
• Sunday Hunting in more WMU's
• Active with user groups North America wide to preserve bowhunting rights.

As you can see, everything you now do as a bowhunter in Alberta, you can attribute to the hard work of the Alberta Bowhunters Association. We are collaborating with other user groups and organizations to further those opportunities as much as possible. JOIN NOW to support those efforts

http://www.bowhunters.ca/About_Us.html



Neil
There is no question that the ABA hasn't done good for the bow hunting community and I will even go as far as that they are needed for the bow hunting community.

Like I said before if it wasn't for this proposal I would likely be a member. The ABA would be the perfect group to represent the small majority of spear and atlatl hunters. As I said before the same arguments against spears and atlatls can be used against archers.
  #75  
Old 03-25-2015, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Mistagin View Post
Are you really suggesting crossbow users are going to go around shooting other hunters????? If so, what a stupid, dumbazz statement!

If so, I'd suggest you check out what using a crossbow is like. The same principles as conventional bowhunting apply. Gotta be close to the animal, in my case no further than 30-40 yards. Gotta pick your aim point just as carefully, etc., etc., etc.

I hear lots of 'talk' on this site where compound users brag about hitting pie plates at 100 yards, but I don't know of any crossbow users who do the same . It can be done, but certainly not ethically!

I believe that was labeled as "100 yard bow shot "competition". a fun TARGET competition where only a pie plate was harmed during its promotion...

funny you should mention that ...the only crossbow shooter I met this year ...during archery season, True handicapped which is just fine and a right...no problem with that!
But he set there by my stand out the window of his pickup ..bragged how his 400Plus FPS crossbow had a 100 yd pin...from our cabin we watched lights searching that field all night into the wee hours...

it is what it was!!

Probably shouldnt even have mentioned that..now we got the crossbow hive buzzing...lol

I think this post has run its course ...much like religion , ford N chevy or politics ...there will never be unity with all the bickering and finger pointing...

So any Mod reading this feel free to nuke or lock this post...

Neil
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  #76  
Old 03-25-2015, 11:52 AM
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Aw, Neil, this one kinda sounds to me like you, although admitting you personally wouldn't do so, say "Why not"

"Same question as for example 1000 yads with a rifle is way out of leagues for me...so I dont shoot it...would like to practice it...

same goes for the long distance bow shooters if they can cosistanly hit a two inch circle like most do at 20 yds...why not...

An Razor sharp tipped arrow at 80 yards from an adequate poundage tuned bow and your arrow at 20 yards ...both in heart...both are taken a dirt nap...

Its not for everyone...just like the rifle guys 1000-1200 but if they can do it efficently...power to them!!"

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...ight=yard+shot

And then there is this one from you:
"OK ..I will start that mayhem... I shot my 327 bull elk last year at ........95 yards...I guesstimated 96yds..my buddy range finder-ed it at 95 yds...

Here is the thing thou...we walk 6 miles in ..hunt the morning and shoot all the way back to camp if slow...I pick a branch etc...he picks one...all the way back to camp

We shot ten to 150 yards for fun all the way back to camp...the morning before I was in the exact spot and shot at a burn pile at 100 yards..I hit it dead on.the bull the next day stood in front of that pile..I stood at the exact spot as the morning before...perfect lung shot..."
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...ight=yard+shot

  #77  
Old 03-25-2015, 12:04 PM
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Aw, Neil, this one kinda sounds to me like you, although admitting you personally wouldn't do so, say "Why not"

"Same question as for example 1000 yads with a rifle is way out of leagues for me...so I dont shoot it...would like to practice it...

same goes for the long distance bow shooters if they can cosistanly hit a two inch circle like most do at 20 yds...why not...

An Razor sharp tipped arrow at 80 yards from an adequate poundage tuned bow and your arrow at 20 yards ...both in heart...both are taken a dirt nap...

Its not for everyone...just like the rifle guys 1000-1200 but if they can do it efficently...power to them!!"

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...ight=yard+shot

And then there is this one from you:
"OK ..I will start that mayhem... I shot my 327 bull elk last year at ........95 yards...I guesstimated 96yds..my buddy range finder-ed it at 95 yds...

Here is the thing thou...we walk 6 miles in ..hunt the morning and shoot all the way back to camp if slow...I pick a branch etc...he picks one...all the way back to camp

We shot ten to 150 yards for fun all the way back to camp...the morning before I was in the exact spot and shot at a burn pile at 100 yards..I hit it dead on.the bull the next day stood in front of that pile..I stood at the exact spot as the morning before...perfect lung shot..."
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...ight=yard+shot

Yup guilty...but knew my equipment...and most importantly exact distance to target ...and practice shots from that exact point...I was 100% confident that the shot was efficent...same scenio that distance at unknown range ...would not shoot...

Wont shoot a rifle over 300 yds either....
Neil
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Old 03-25-2015, 12:19 PM
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I assume that several of you are members of the Alberta Atlatl Association?

LC
Quote:
Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow View Post
Wow ...didnt even know there was an Alberta Atlatl Association...web pages and all...

Neil
So, you fellas think that a small group of hunters who don't have an organization should be fair game.....kinda like a dog eat dog mentality where only the strongest survive and it's okay for stronger groups to prey on weaker groups of hunters?

I have no idea how any of you can't understand why the ABA attacking a certain hunting group, regardless of the size or if they have an organization or not, wouldn't have other hunters banding together to come to their assistance. No, I do not use a spear or atlatl, nor do I belong to any sort of spear/atlatl organization. I'm just an average, everyday hunter who doesn't like anti-hunting groups, especially when it's coming from within the hunting community.

As far as joining the ABA in order to initiate change, I'm afraid that is not a very good method of recruiting, in fact the idea is somewhat laughable. Who wants to join a group that would attack other groups of hunters just because they don't use traditional archery equipment?
  #79  
Old 03-25-2015, 12:27 PM
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So, you fellas think that a small group of hunters who don't have an organization should be fair game.....kinda like a dog eat dog mentality where only the strongest survive and it's okay for stronger groups to prey on weaker groups of hunters?

I have no idea how any of you can't understand why the ABA attacking a certain hunting group, regardless of the size or if they have an organization or not, wouldn't have other hunters banding together to come to their assistance. No, I do not use a spear or atlatl, nor do I belong to any sort of spear/atlatl organization. I'm just an average, everyday hunter who doesn't like anti-hunting groups, especially when it's coming from within the hunting community.

As far as joining the ABA in order to initiate change, I'm afraid that is not a very good method of recruiting, in fact the idea is somewhat laughable. Who wants to join a group that would attack other groups of hunters just because they don't use traditional archery equipment?
Dave you are spin doctoring my words....I have stated I am not against Atlatl, just I feel they should have regulations and minimal requirements.

My attempt at putting things into perspective clearly didn't get through to you. Your hate of the ABA prevented that. I don't think groups should cause more division than that which has already occurred.

Actually the Tradional Archers of Alberta were at the ABA GM and a huge part of the banquet and the meetings.....but you wouldn't expect you to know you weren't there and were not involved

If the ABA doesn't get new blood or new ideas injected then what? Sorry but the only way to initiate changes is from new fresh ideas...which usually require new members with other perspectives.

FYI, I wasn't "recruited" to the ABA, I joined under my own free will. I figured as a bow hunter who cares about hunting and the future of it in the province, it was a good idea to get involved. If you don't get involved and have a say then there is no crying and moaning later on.

LC
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Last edited by Lefty-Canuck; 03-25-2015 at 12:34 PM.
  #80  
Old 03-25-2015, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow View Post


Some of ABA's success with assisting Bowhunting in Alberta

• Bowhunter education program.
• Liability insurance for clubs and individuals through Federation of Canadian Archers.
• Internationally Acclamed Game Awards Program for members.
• 3D Sanctioned Shoot program/Provincial Championship.
• Hunting For Tomorrow Foundation participating member.
• Resolution process to lobby government to improve and retain bowhunting regulations.

Successes include:
• Allow the use of camo clothing (1969).
• Allow the use of aluminum arrows (1970).
• Legalized bowfishing.
• Black bear baiting.
• Archery pre-season province wide (1976/77).
• Antelope archery season (1976/77).
• 410 and 408 Bighorn sheep season.
• Antlerless deer tags in 212 and 248.
• Antlerless elk tags in 212.
• Archery pre-season for elk (not requiring a draw).
• Archery only areas around Edmonton and Calgary (1975).
• Lobbied with other user groups for these seasons, even though they are not archery-only:
• Mountain Goat season.
• Primitive Weapons area in 357 (Saskatoon Mtn.)
• Cow moose draw in 357.
• Sunday Hunting in more WMU's
• Active with user groups North America wide to preserve bowhunting rights.

I guess bowhunters can be thankful that rifle hunters were more tolerant of (or ignorant of) bow hunter aspirations than bowhunters are of atlatl hunter aspirations, or none of the achievements above would have been attained.

Last edited by Okotokian; 03-25-2015 at 12:38 PM.
  #81  
Old 03-25-2015, 12:33 PM
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Agree, and it's funny how we can't go 2 years in a row without someone attacking Bowhunting for some perceived slight. I don't blame the ABA one bit for being "confrontational" considering their entire experience has been being constantly attacked by rifle hunters/the old boys Afga club.

I don't agree with Brent failing to bring the issue to the ABA membership. That was a serious mistake, and he will wear it on his reputation for likely as long as he hunts in Alberta. But it hardly represents the entire organization.

Why is no one critisizing the AFGA for failing to oppose the matter? Oh that's because they are mostly rifle hunters and didn't care until they realized they could use it against the ABA (hint-Payback for keeping bolt&string guns out of archery season, the inclusion of which was sheephumpers pet project. He has been in full-on attack mode since then, and is instigating most of this)
Wow, somebody's sure got an inferiority complex. News flash buddy, neither rifle hunters nor AFGA are out to get you so chill with your accusations.
  #82  
Old 03-25-2015, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by edmhunter View Post
With all of this Spear talk, now I have to go out and get me one! Think I will Call Tim so he can point me it the right direction.

Water Buffalo in Belize is what I am thinking

This will be my Spear Hunting theme song! Turn it up and enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUcPcGulXCA
Make your own.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...=225180&page=3
  #83  
Old 03-25-2015, 12:59 PM
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Wow, pretty accurate eh? I would not want to standing in front of that at any speed!

I think I will have mine made by professionals with the sharpest tip money can buy and in perfect balance.
  #84  
Old 03-25-2015, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow View Post
lol...a little dramatic there dont you think..
No.

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Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow View Post
Maybe if the Spear and Atlatl following worked a little closer with other associations this wouldnt be happening...

Neil
Really? You want to shift blame to them? REALLY!? wow.
  #85  
Old 03-25-2015, 05:13 PM
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So, you fellas think that a small group of hunters who don't have an organization should be fair game.....kinda like a dog eat dog mentality where only the strongest survive and it's okay for stronger groups to prey on weaker groups of hunters?

I have no idea how any of you can't understand why the ABA attacking a certain hunting group, regardless of the size or if they have an organization or not, wouldn't have other hunters banding together to come to their assistance. No, I do not use a spear or atlatl, nor do I belong to any sort of spear/atlatl organization. I'm just an average, everyday hunter who doesn't like anti-hunting groups, especially when it's coming from within the hunting community.

As far as joining the ABA in order to initiate change, I'm afraid that is not a very good method of recruiting, in fact the idea is somewhat laughable. Who wants to join a group that would attack other groups of hunters just because they don't use traditional archery equipment?

This is a good post, had to read it a few times.
  #86  
Old 03-25-2015, 05:22 PM
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You guys do know the ABA presented an information package to AGMAG with information provided by the Atlatl folks....because the Atlatl guys didn't have a seat at the AGMAG table.

LC
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Old 03-25-2015, 05:26 PM
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You guys do know the ABA presented an information package to AGMAG with information provided by the Atlatl folks....because the Atlatl guys didn't have a seat at the AGMAG table.

LC
You do know that they really didn't have a choice.
  #88  
Old 03-25-2015, 05:30 PM
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This discussion deserves a theme song...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJTBPdVpdMc
  #89  
Old 03-25-2015, 05:31 PM
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Exactly
  #90  
Old 03-25-2015, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by dmcbride View Post
You do know that they really didn't have a choice.
Explain...

LC
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