Crossbows???

[Lefty-Canuck]

Said it before and I'll say it again.....most folks against crossbows are trying to keep the competition during archery season to a minimum.

FWIW I hunt with a bow and a rifle and if there comes a time where an injury or disability causes me to not be able to hunt with a regular bow I would not hesitate to try to be able to use a crossbow.

The benefits to a compound bow in my opinion outweigh a crossbow, at least while I am still able to use a compound.

LC

[Pincherguy]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

They are against crossbows because they think it will bring an influx of thousands of hunters to the woods in archery season and they want to rule the woods and can't handle the extra competition. For a fact it has nothing to do with the weapon that's just an excuse. And yes I Am an avid bow hunter.

I agree with you here. I was an avid bowhunter, and still would be if I could.
I really don't think that there would be an influx of thousand of hunters into the archery season. I really don't know what the objection is. As I said, if I don't interfere with you WTF.

[normanrd]

Originally Posted by Pincherguy

I would think that it is not a firearm in the sense that it is not propelled by the discharge of gun powder. In fact it is an arrow, perhaps a little shorter than conventional arrows, but an arrow none the less. Therefore archery.

Pretty sure the regs say something about a bow being partly defined as NOT being held back by mechanical means. So it shouldnt be here!

If you are disabled, have at it! If you are not disabled, hunt with a {by regulation definitions} bow. In archery {aka BOW} season.

JMO,

Norm

[6mm rem]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Predator

Just stay in the general season and you crossbow guys will be fine leave the archery season to us BOW HUNTERS! thanks

Well said

[C Taylor]

I'm pretty sure the first year of being aloud to use a crossbow as archery gear, there would be a huge increase in crossbows. The way I see it is that's the year that archery should have their percentage based on. If half the hunters have gone out with bow or crossbow 50% of the tags should be for archery instead of the 15% now.
My dad couldnt pull a bow back anymore so he got a crossbow. It didn't take to long packing it through the bush and he quit archery completely. I'm sure the stores would be selling lots the first season and the second season will have plenty of used crossbows for sale.

[Pincherguy]

Originally Posted by normanrd

Pretty sure the regs say something about a bow being partly defined as NOT being held back by mechanical means. So it shouldn't be here!

If you are disabled, have at it! If you are not disabled, hunt with a {by regulation definitions} bow. In archery {aka BOW} season.

JMO,

Norm

I know what the regs say, read them for years, and I am not disputing them. Just saying what is the difference. I am not hurting you, and have no intentions of doing so. Why would you want to stop me from enjoying myself. I am not going to shoot any more animals than you and I promise that I will not screw up your hunt.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Pincherguy

I know what the regs say, read them for years, and I am not disputing them. Just saying what is the difference. I am not hurting you, and have no intentions of doing so. Why would you want to stop me from enjoying myself. I am not going to shoot any more animals than you and I promise that I will not screw up your hunt.

The difference is in the definition of what is considered archery equipment....same as other definitions we are bound to in the regulations.

We do not make the rules, we just have to follow them.

Personally in the style that I hunt with archery equipment I think a x-bow would be limiting to how I prefer to hunt on the ground.

LC

[GOPHERSPLAT]

A string sends a pointy stick via a mechanical release to its target.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^compound bow or crossbow??

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by GOPHERSPLAT

A string sends a pointy stick via a mechanical release to its target.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^bow or crossbow??

It is held at full draw by muscle power though.....not indefinitely by mechanical means....that is the difference.

Mechanical/caliper release has nothing to do with the definition of the equipment used. You can use a mechanical release on a recurve if you really wanted to.

LC

[GOPHERSPLAT]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

It is held at full draw by muscle power though.....not indefinitely by mechanical means....that is the difference.

Mechanical/caliper release has nothing to do with the definition of the equipment used. You can use a mechanical release on a recurve if you really wanted to.

LC

I'm playing devils advacate here,so how do you define the difference,one has stored energy,the other dosen't?Muscle power?
For the record,i don't shoot either,but my son's a Bowhunter,we discuss this topic quite often.

[Pincherguy]

All I am saying is what the hell is the difference? If you shoot a bow that is 70 lb pull and your gf shoots one that is 45 lbs. I shoot a crossbow at 70 lbs.
Are we shooting at the same animal? Probably not, we are probalbly not even in the same country. What difference does it make what I am shooting?

Big senario. We spot a herd of elk at about 1500 yards. We plan our stock, move to within about 300 yards. We are good to go, line him up and BOOM! he is down. The guy above us saw him to. leveled him with a 50 cal sniper rifle. Fair? regs. say yes, to me BS.

I have met guys packing as crossbow while bowhunting, I never thought onec to ask them why.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by GOPHERSPLAT

I'm playing devils advacate here,so how do you define the difference,one has stored energy,the other dosen't?Muscle power?
For the record,i don't shoot either,but my son's a Bowhunter,we discuss this topic quite often.

Devil advocate? Or playing as though you don't know there is a difference?

It is quite easy....they both "store energy" in the limbs, but one is held muscularity the other mechanically. One is finite the other can be infinite.

My arm, hand and fingers hold back the string with a compound or traditional bow. The length of time depends on my conditioning. Muscular power is at work....

In a crossbow a mechanism holds the string back, indefinitely until it is released...non-muscular power holds it.

Do you understand the difference now? The definitions in the regulations are what we are bound to as far as the rules and regulations are concerned.

LC

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Pincherguy

All I am saying is what the hell is the difference? If you shoot a bow that is 70 lb pull and your gf shoots one that is 45 lbs. I shoot a crossbow at 70 lbs.
Are we shooting at the same animal? Probably not, we are probalbly not even in the same country. What difference does it make what I am shooting?

Big senario. We spot a herd of elk at about 1500 yards. We plan our stock, move to within about 300 yards. We are good to go, line him up and BOOM! he is down. The guy above us saw him to. leveled him with a 50 cal sniper rifle. Fair? regs. say yes, to me BS.

I have met guys packing as crossbow while bowhunting, I never thought onec to ask them why.

By the regs and the definition lies the difference, opinions mean nothing the rules and regs do.

No need to explain to you the difference between muscular and mechanical means is there?

LC

[KegRiver]

Rules and regulations change every year.
So although we must follow the regulations I see nothing wrong with requesting changes to those regulations.

As for definitions, the regulations do not define what is Archery equipment and what is not. Clearly a Crossbow is archery equipment.

A crossbow is a weapon consisting of a bow mounted on a stock

What the regs do define is what is permitted archery equipment and what is not. Which is of course subject to change.

So Crossbows can become approved for use during archery season if there is enough demand for such a change.

Numbers talk. If enough people want it, it will happen.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Rules and regulations change every year.
So although we must follow the regulations I see nothing wrong with requesting changes to those regulations.

As for definitions, the regulations do not define what is Archery equipment and what is not. Clearly a Crossbow is archery equipment.


What the regs do define is what is permitted archery equipment and what is not. Which is of course subject to change.

So Crossbows can become approved for use during archery season if there is enough demand for such a change.

Numbers talk. If enough people want it, it will happen.

This taken from the regs explains it perfectly.....

Persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow and an authorized arrow. An authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power and has a draw weight of not less than 18 kg (40 lb.)

....key phrase: HELD, DRAWN AND RELEASED BY MUSCULAR POWER.

A crossbow does not meet the requirement above....therefore not considered "archery equipment".....keep in mind regulations are not written in a fashion that they need to be "read into" to be understood.

LC

[fishnchicks]

Originally Posted by 6mm rem

Well said

It's people like you that bring down hunter's. we should all be supportive of each other. Not enough of the population hunts and fishes to begin with and the ones that are judge each other on their hunting method. I promise you I am not that person that is out there shooting up the country side and if alberta fish and wild life will still allow me after an injury to hunt with a crossbow in bow season, you bet your booty I will do it! I am not sitting in a tree stand or baiting animals, I am calling them and doing the hard work of hunting them down. How I pull the trigger, should not matter. And trust me I have shot both and I wish I could use a compound. You can be much more agile. Not just anybody can have the authority to hunt a crossbow in bow season so maybe you should have a bit more understanding for the very few hunters out there in September!


Happy hunting!!!

[Pincherguy]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

The difference is in the definition of what is considered archery equipment....same as other definitions we are bound to in the regulations.

We do not make the rules, we just have to follow them.

Personally in the style that I hunt with archery equipment I think a x-bow would be limiting to how I prefer to hunt on the ground.

LC

LC, I know the definition of archery equipment, I am not disputing that. I follow the rules always have. I am just saying that if I shoot a crossbow and you shoot a compound, I am not hurting you in any way.

[Mulie.stalker]

Originally Posted by Pincherguy

All I am saying is what the hell is the difference? If you shoot a bow that is 70 lb pull and your gf shoots one that is 45 lbs. I shoot a crossbow at 70 lbs.
Are we shooting at the same animal? Probably not, we are probalbly not even in the same country. What difference does it make what I am shooting?

Big senario. We spot a herd of elk at about 1500 yards. We plan our stock, move to within about 300 yards. We are good to go, line him up and BOOM! he is down. The guy above us saw him to. leveled him with a 50 cal sniper rifle. Fair? regs. say yes, to me BS.

I have met guys packing as crossbow while bowhunting, I never thought onec to ask them why.

To play devils advocate... if you are pulling a crossbow at #70 it is a illegal one. Legal Crossbow is minimum #100. It also is something that takes time to practice at, if you shoot crossbow I'm sure you would agree. The big problem with that is most people wouldn't know that because of how mechanical it is and you would find a lot more people going out into the woods not prepared or with a sufficient amount of practice. Another big difference is the fact that I can cock my crossbow and have it waiting at the ready until I need it. I have to make a motion before shooting a compound/longbow.

Your scenario of elk hunting doesn't make sense... if you enjoy getting close and personal when you take a animal like you would with a bow, why can you not do the same thing with a rifle? you are saying that its a different experience and I would agree on the fact it is a different connection with the land, However IMO if you treat your rifle like a compound you would get the same rush. Fact is most people are lazy and so when they see the animal at 200 yards they take the shot, instead of trying to get in close.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Pincherguy

LC, I know the definition of archery equipment, I am not disputing that. I follow the rules always have. I am just saying that if I shoot a crossbow and you shoot a compound, I am not hurting you in any way.

I am not saying anyone is hurting anyone either....but a crossbow by definition is not archery equipment and therefore as it stands....not valid for use during archery season in Alberta.

I also stated that if there comes a time where I cannot hunt using archery equipment and I qualify via permit to use a crossbow then I will.

LC

[Pincherguy]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I am not saying anyone is hurting anyone either....but a crossbow by definition is not archery equipment and therefore as it stands....not valid for use during archery season in Alberta.

I also stated that if there comes a time where I cannot hunt using archery equipment and I qualify via permit to use a crossbow then I will.

LC

I guess somewhere along the lines the point has been missed. Anyway, not worth arguing about.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

They are against crossbows because they think it will bring an influx of thousands of hunters to the woods in archery season and they want to rule the woods and can't handle the extra competition. For a fact it has nothing to do with the weapon that's just an excuse. And yes I Am an avid bow hunter.

Just some, not all, the reasons why I hate Xguns

1. I've reported 3 people poaching with them..( firing from inside the truck)

2. People think they can shoot 100 yards ( don't try to convince them other wise)

3. Huge advantage in the prone/ready position, compared to bows.

4. Can hold in the loaded position all day

5. Newbie's, don't take the same time and pride in sighting them in ( Great entertainment at the archery shops)

To the average person, a bolt from a Xgun , looks much like an arrow. Any game wounded by xguns, that makes the news ( around populated cities) The headlines will never read Xgun bolt in Bunny...........

It's not the influx of people that scares bowhunters BuckCuller.......If that was true, bowhunters wouldn't be promoting people to pick up a bow and get out . They wouldn't be as forth coming with help , tips and even mentoring as a vast majority are...

It's the animals IMO that have the most to lose..... and in zones like the Bowzones and the open prairie zones especially..JMO

But for now they are illegal in the achery season, and that makes me happy! Except all the guys with the fake doctors notes, from their doctor friend...like my FIL's Buddy's

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Predator

Just stay in the general season and you crossbow guys will be fine leave the archery season to us BOW HUNTERS! thanks

Horizontal or vertical bows, finger release or mechanical release, cams or just limbs, instinctive or sights? Your all BOW HUNTERS!

[Albertaguide]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Predator

Just stay in the general season and you crossbow guys will be fine leave the archery season to us BOW HUNTERS! thanks

this is the problem, we're all outdoorsmen sportsmen, but the rift between the different techniques we use to harvest game only results in a fractured front protecting all our rights to hunt fish and enjoy the outdoors. let alone the rifle shooters looking down on archers. we have the compound bow shooters against the traditional shooters and both attacking the crossbow users, in the firearms community we have the long range shooters against the muzzle loader crowd, and visa versa the list goes on and on. Weather you hunt hogs from a tree stand using a spear or dope the wind and elevation to take an elk on the far ridge line as long as you can ensure a clean humane kill and are committed to the ethics rights and responsabilities of a hunter (not killers). if we continue with the backstabbing and arguing as to what constitutes "real" hunting we will all lose. How many bow hunter here would vote to an outright ban on crossbow hunting? and when that happens what's stopping the slippery slope of some bleeding heart politician to pit the rifle hunter against bow hunters then brush hunters against long range hunters? soon we'll be limited to hunting in a single WMU and using only Non-military round firing non toxic lead free bullets fired from a ambidextrous single shot rifle with a fixed 4x scope, on every other Monday during November. No +300 fps compound bows, no handmade self bows no 200# crossbows no 17lb F-class rifles with 5-25x AO scopes, no iron sighted 30-30 leverguns. we'll all be sitting around the proverbial wood stove staring at each other saying "remember when...". For one I love shooting my 300 weatherby 208gr Amax at 1000 yds and my 50# recurve at 15 yds busting ducks with my 25 yr old 870 and coyotes with my AR-180. and i'd hate to lose them because we can't accept other sportsman idea of what he/she loves, strength comes from unity, a united front, and anyone saying "you aren't or can't or won't" is counterproductive. remember when...

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

A crossbow does not meet the requirement above....therefore not considered "archery equipment".....keep in mind regulations are not written in a fashion that they need to be "read into" to be understood.

LC

So where in the regulations does it say that?

Let's put it another way.

A 223 is not permitted for hunting big game, but it is still a rifle, or is it not a rifle as defined by the regulations?

The argument that a crossbow is not archery equipment is a smokescreen.

It makes no difference how one defines a particular weapon. Any weapon can be approved for any season. If our government sees fit.

A Crossbow is not a Rifle, but it is permitted during the rifle season.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

So where in the regulations does it say that?

Let's put it another way.

A 223 is not permitted for hunting big game, but it is still a rifle, or is it not a rifle as defined by the regulations?

The argument that a crossbow is not archery equipment is a smokescreen.

It makes no difference how one defines a particular weapon. Any weapon can be approved for any season. If our government sees fit.

A Crossbow is not a Rifle, but it is permitted during the rifle season.

Keg you are introducing new arguments and confusing this specific situation....you are not talking apples to apples with your .223 comment.

I quoted the regs Keg.....re-read my post slower

....the capitalized part that talks about muscular power....

I'll save you some time,

Persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow and an authorized arrow. An authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power and has a draw weight of not less than 18 kg (40 lb.)

LC

[petew]

I always love how those that can not follow the rules come up with the statement we are causing a division in our ranks.
The divisions are caused by people trying to circumvent every thing they can and want a life full of easy buttons.

If you are realy handicapped there are no problems with the cross bow. So what is next in the easy button lifestyle, the arrow gun shooting 22 blanks to propel an arrow because you can't cock a crossbow or it is to awkward.

We see 12 year olds that can draw a legal bow. We see adults with fake notes from doctors too.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Keg you are introducing new arguments and confusing this specific situation....you are not talking apples to apples with your .223 comment.

I quoted the regs Keg.....re-read my post slower

Not a new argument. Simply the truth. The regulations can be changed.

And yes you quoted the regs, then added your own twist to what they say.

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

A crossbow does not meet the requirement above....therefore not considered "archery equipment".....keep in mind regulations are not written in a fashion that they need to be "read into" to be understood.

As I said the regs do not define archery equipment, they only state that

An authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power and has a draw weight of not less than 18 kg (40 lb.).

If as you suggest, this defines what is archery equipment then a long bow with a draw weight less then 40lb. is not archery equipment.

My point being that what is authorized by the regulations is not written in stone. It can be changed.

Like I said. Arguing definitions is a smokescreen. Any weapon can be added or removed from what is authorized.

That being said, a crossbow is, as I pointed out, by definition, archery equipment. It's a bow mounted on a stock.

It is you who confuse the issue by arguing that the regs define a crossbow as not archery equipment.

As I see it the only issue is, do enough people want to hunt with a crossbow during archery season. The majority rules does it not?

[Lefty-Canuck]

I was discussing what was legal to hunt with and why Keg, you apparently were not.

LC

[Mistagin]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

....the capitalized part that talks about muscular power....

I'll save you some time,

Persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow and an authorized arrow. An authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power and has a draw weight of not less than 18 kg (40 lb.)

LC

Well, on behalf of all crossbow users, I can argue that I draw my crossbow using muscular power (takes a LOT of muscle power to draw 175 lbs, even with a rope cocking device), and drawing it uses more muscles than using my recurve - gotta even use my legs a bit to draw the crossbow .
I have to hold the whole thing up with muscle power, using both arms, and shoulders, and even back muscles.
I even have to use eye muscles to sight it!
And I have to squeeze the release (trigger) using muscle power; ya oughtta see the muscles in my index trigger finger.
Then there is the follow through - still using muscle power.

Gets kinda silly when ya want to argue the details, doesn't it!?!

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Fishnafterwork

Your kidding yourself if u think a crossbow doesn't take "practice practice practice"

I get tired of putting my arrows into the X's at 50 yards.........crossbow practice is boring.