Cattle and destrution on public land

[Nayr]

I wouldn’t mind grazing cows if they could control their farting a bit, I’ve heard that’s destroying the earth.

[IL Bar]

Pretty comical to hear you guys complain about cows and ranchers and their damage in the West Country when the places a lot of you live and work in the city were built right over top of wetlands and game habitats themselves. Just something to think about.

[cody j]

Originally Posted by IL Bar

Pretty comical to hear you guys complain about cows and ranchers and their damage in the West Country when the places a lot of you live and work in the city were built right over top of wetlands and game habitats themselves. Just something to think about.

The same could be said of many environmentalists and animal rights activists

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by leeelmer

So comparing cows to buffalo is stupid, and very uninformed.
Have you ever been to a bison farm?
Do you actively farm buffalo?
I bet no.
A very good friend has about 700 buffalo, and runs a few thousand cattle, it is amazing the difference where the buffalo are and where the cattle are, there is no comparing the two.

For example when you go to a cattle farm and there is a creek or pond for water, the cows crap in it, trample all over it.
Buffalo do not, not one foot print in the mud, they don't wander down into the water to drink.
When they cross, they cross in one spot.
Wild creatures, even when farmed seam to take care of there water supply. Cows don't.
As for cows on crown land(not grazing leases) but just crown grazing, it should be stopped. If the rancher cannot make a go of farming without needing cheep grazing on crown land west country, then he is not doing business properly and should look for a new job.
They destroy the west country, and take away a pile of forage for elk, moose and deer. They wreck streams and wet land.

I will second the remarkably minimal impact that fenced in pure bison do to watersources. It is simply amazing.
Any dilution with cattle genes quickly takes the wild out of bison, including their instinctual "respect" for riparian areas.

I have taken many biologists and ecologists to view a one section bison enclosure that has had between 200-600 head in it for forty years. These professionals are amazed at what they see. There is a three foot wide spring creek within the enclosure, and it still runs deep and clear. Bison simply DO NOT drink from any steep bank nor do they walk anywhere but in an extremely shallow section. This behavior is hardwired.

A mile away is another spring creek that is nothing but mud for several miles. Cattle graze this pasture. They have completely destroyed the creek to the point that it flows under the mud.

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Well, for one thing, cattle help control grass growth, a potential fire risk in a dry year, I think people exaggerate the size of the problem and are just offended by their presence, which in reality isn't that great, as well as tightly managed.
Grizz

Cattle have to be controlled or they will overgraze and destroy riverbanks.
They must not be allowed unrestricted access to riparian areas or that is where they will stay.

For fire suppression, why not allow more elk and deer to exist in the wild?

This Fire suppression talk is propaganda that stinks.

Originally Posted by IL Bar

Pretty comical to hear you guys complain about cows and ranchers and their damage in the West Country when the places a lot of you live and work in the city were built right over top of wetlands and game habitats themselves. Just something to think about.

I live in the city, and while spending my life desiring to build on some natural land, I choose not to specifically to limit my impact.


It is sadly revealing when reading old books.
Our Elders describing countless streams once deep and full of fish that no longer even exist.
If a true account of how many thousands of miles of streams that no longer exist in Alberta due to poor ranching practices was ever done, many cowboys could no longer hold their hat high.
We are living with blinders on to believe that today's typical ranching practice hasn't and isn't continuing to severely degrade the landscape

We ALL have an impact, Citiots and the rest.
All that is being said is that there is no reason why cattle ranchers can't continue running cows profitably while doing a MUCH better job at protecting the water.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by leeelmer

So comparing cows to buffalo is stupid, and very uninformed.
Have you ever been to a bison farm?
Do you actively farm buffalo?
I bet no.
A very good friend has about 700 buffalo, and runs a few thousand cattle, it is amazing the difference where the buffalo are and where the cattle are, there is no comparing the two.

For example when you go to a cattle farm and there is a creek or pond for water, the cows crap in it, trample all over it.
Buffalo do not, not one foot print in the mud, they don't wander down into the water to drink.
When they cross, they cross in one spot.
Wild creatures, even when farmed seam to take care of there water supply. Cows don't.
As for cows on crown land(not grazing leases) but just crown grazing, it should be stopped. If the rancher cannot make a go of farming without needing cheep grazing on crown land west country, then he is not doing business properly and should look for a new job.
They destroy the west country, and take away a pile of forage for elk, moose and deer. They wreck streams and wet land.

WOW!!! Your buddy must have 2 townships of land if he has a few thousand head of cattle and 700 head of buffalo. I know how much land it takes to run 1500 head of cattle properly. He has to have a lot of lease land? You should tell him he’s not doing business properly and should look for a new job.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

It is sadly revealing when reading old books.
Our Elders describing countless streams once deep and full of fish that no longer even exist.
If a true account of how many thousands of miles of streams that no longer exist in Alberta due to poor ranching practices was ever done, many cowboys could no longer hold their hat high.
We are living with blinders on to believe that today's typical ranching practice hasn't and isn't continuing to severely degrade the landscape

I think it’s called global warming!! The greenies are destroying lots as well with their geothermal BS what do you think is happening to the earths core which leads to climate change.

[270person]

Originally Posted by 35 whelen

I have a neighbour a mile away that releases his cows every year on to the Crown Land, there was a time where they used to come into my yard and s*** everywhere and I complain to him about it ,far as I know they're still released every spring or summer but he's only got about 20 head left now so they don't really bother me.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Walking through that grazing lease south of your place was a real treat. Can't believe I didn't break an ankle in some of those frozen up trails.

Good thing I'm only 30 and ridiculously nimble.

[270person]

Originally Posted by Nayr

I wouldn’t mind grazing cows if they could control their farting a bit, I’ve heard that’s destroying the earth.

Not just cattle. The area around my place is scorched earth.

[landowner]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I will second the remarkably minimal impact that fenced in pure bison do to watersources. It is simply amazing.
Any dilution with cattle genes quickly takes the wild out of bison, including their instinctual "respect" for riparian areas.

I have taken many biologists and ecologists to view a one section bison enclosure that has had between 200-600 head in it for forty years. These professionals are amazed at what they see. There is a three foot wide spring creek within the enclosure, and it still runs deep and clear. Bison simply DO NOT drink from any steep bank nor do they walk anywhere but in an extremely shallow section. This behavior is hardwired.

A mile away is another spring creek that is nothing but mud for several miles. Cattle graze this pasture. They have completely destroyed the creek to the point that it flows under the mud.







Cattle have to be controlled or they will overgraze and destroy riverbanks.
They must not be allowed unrestricted access to riparian areas or that is where they will stay.

For fire suppression, why not allow more elk and deer to exist in the wild?

This Fire suppression talk is propaganda that stinks.





I live in the city, and while spending my life desiring to build on some natural land, I choose not to specifically to limit my impact.


It is sadly revealing when reading old books.
Our Elders describing countless streams once deep and full of fish that no longer even exist.
If a true account of how many thousands of miles of streams that no longer exist in Alberta due to poor ranching practices was ever done, many cowboys could no longer hold their hat high.
We are living with blinders on to believe that today's typical ranching practice hasn't and isn't continuing to severely degrade the landscape

We ALL have an impact, Citiots and the rest.
All that is being said is that there is no reason why cattle ranchers can't continue running cows profitably while doing a MUCH better job at protecting the water.

Hmmm , Waterton Park allows all the deer and elk in the province to exist within their boundaries, yet the place was chalk full of over ripe uneaten grass . It burned and burned and burned. The fire finally stopped on greener grazed lands. Tell us again that grazing for fire suppression is stinking propaganda. Don’t believe me come south and see the proof. .Blaming ranchers for streams no longer filled to the top with fish is just too easy. Poor practices are just one of a million impacts (including population) that have happened since Europeans have arrived.

[AtimoseMan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u468xY1T8fw

This will solve all your problems about cattle or any live stock issues. Yummy.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

Fencing off waterways should be done voluntarily by cattlemen long before it’s forced on them.

I guess the Elk don’t do any damage! We as outdoorsmen should fence off all water so no animals destroy any of it.

[skidderman]

Oh and don't forget all of the gas, (farts) from those cattle. Oh it's bad I tell ya. I think to go along with the idea of one thread for politics there should be one thread just for whiner's. I'm sure the thread will do well. Oh I just farted. Sorry for that.

[cody j]

Originally Posted by skidderman

Oh and don't forget all of the gas, (farts) from those cattle. Oh it's bad I tell ya. I think to go along with the idea of one thread for politics there should be one thread just for whiner's. I'm sure the thread will do well. Oh I just farted. Sorry for that.

If that was the case some days that would be the only active thread

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by 270person

Walking through that grazing lease south of your place was a real treat. Can't believe I didn't break an ankle in some of those frozen up trails.

Good thing I'm only 30 and ridiculously nimble.

Heaven forbid , I know when I hunt I prefer a groomed trails lol

[leeelmer]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

WOW!!! Your buddy must have 2 townships of land if he has a few thousand head of cattle and 700 head of buffalo. I know how much land it takes to run 1500 head of cattle properly. He has to have a lot of lease land? You should tell him he’s not doing business properly and should look for a new job.

They actually do, they own over 75 sections of land, no lease land over 3 separate countries, the ranch has been in the family for over 100 years.
So no they don't need a new job, they are doing just fine.

[BIG AL]

We hunt in central Alberta. Some of the bush area we hunt has been completely destroyed by cattle. Where there once was good bush to hunt in it is now gone with only the odd tree standing. Other bushes are getting thinner each year. Cattle can do more damage than beaver.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by BIG AL

We hunt in central Alberta. Some of the bush area we hunt has been completely destroyed by cattle. Where there once was good bush to hunt in it is now gone with only the odd tree standing. Other bushes are getting thinner each year. Cattle can do more damage than beaver.

That may be true. But.

What about the soughs drained to make more acreage for cereal crops.
What about the wetlands filled in and paved over for community expansion projects.
What about the thousands of miles of drainage canals to keep fields, roads and communities dryer.

Everyone is ignoring the real problem and pointing fingers at everything but.

We see the spring Snow Goose season and the almost nonexistent bag limits and we are fine with that because we understand that species has grown beyond the environments ability to recover from their impart.

The problem ladies and gentleman is overpopulation.

The human population is at critical mass and no one wants to talk about the ramifications of that.

We are at a point were the accumulative effects of even small impacts have global implications.

Do cows damage the environment? Yes they do, but that is not the problem.
The problem is the sheer numbers needed to feed a rapidly growing human population.

The loss of a few acres of wetland due to one herd of cows would not effect the environment as a whole.
But the loss of a few acres of wetland due to one herd multiplied by hundreds of thousands will have catastrophic impacts on the environment as a whole.

Gentleman and ladies, we can not win a war by attacking the potato peelers.
We have to attack the front line soldiers or the infrastructure that supports them.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by BIG AL

We hunt in central Alberta. Some of the bush area we hunt has been completely destroyed by cattle. Where there once was good bush to hunt in it is now gone with only the odd tree standing. Other bushes are getting thinner each year. Cattle can do more damage than beaver.

This is lack of good management.

[rccam1]

Originally Posted by huntwat

Do cows do more damage than 1000 head of elk in the river upstream of them?

They do. And why add to the problem of excessive amounts of animals in the water systems.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by cody j

The same could be said of many environmentalists and animal rights activists

I think of Canmore when I hear this. Nuke Canmore and wipe out the "Environmental" movement.

Grizz

[270person]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

Heaven forbid , I know when I hunt I prefer a groomed trails lol

Not only was my post not intended for you but with you not being there to see the humour, it went a mile over your head. Carry on tho.