New 135gr .257 bullets

Dubious · #1 01-18-2021, 07:23 AM

New product out for the 1/4 bore. https://bergerbullets.com/product/25...hybrid-target/ pretty exciting stuff can’t wait for a hunting variant. With black Jack Berger and hammer bullets there’s starting to be a pretty good selection of heavy 25 cal bullets bringing some excitement back into this classic caliber.

Ranger CS · #2 01-18-2021, 07:51 AM

Interesting, thanks for posting!

JULIUS · #3 01-18-2021, 08:24 AM

Very interesting. This could up the game for my 25-06 but I am not sure I want to mess with my 120 grain nosler load. lol
More options is always good and finding out what these could do should be fun.
Thanks for posting

elkhunter11 · #4 01-18-2021, 08:44 AM

If you have a rifle built with a fast enough twist, this may be a good option, but most current factory rifles don't have a fast enough twist to stabilize it.

Dubious · #5 01-18-2021, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If you have a rifle built with a fast enough twist, this may be a good option, but most current factory rifles don't have a fast enough twist to stabilize it.

having a barrel swapped is like changing tires on a truck its not very intrusive and don't cost a lot.

elkhunter11 · #6 01-18-2021, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubious

having a barrel swapped is like changing tires on a truck its not very intrusive and don't cost a lot.

Many people paid less for their rifle, than a replacement barrel costs.

Dubious · #7 01-18-2021, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Many people paid less for their rifle, than a replacement barrel costs.

those types of people probably won't be shooting a bullet that needs a custom barrel and has to be hand loaded.

AB2506 · #8 01-18-2021, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If you have a rifle built with a fast enough twist, this may be a good option, but most current factory rifles don't have a fast enough twist to stabilize it.

Beat me to it.

To the OP and others;

If you have a fast enough twist barrel to stabilize it, can you explain how it increases the effectiveness of, let's say a 25-06, over 450yds? I've never found a good 115gr or 120gr bullet lacking at those ranges on deer and antelope.

If the barrel twist is fast enough, it (135gr Berger) would be easier to make the 25-06 a long range target competitor with the Creedmoor.

The developers of these cartridges knew a thing or two about ballistics, even if they didn't have computers 100 years ago.

huntwat · #9 01-18-2021, 08:59 AM

If I need heavier bullets, I’ll shoot my 30-06.

Dubious · #10 01-18-2021, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AB2506

Beat me to it.

To the OP and others;

If you have a fast enough twist barrel to stabilize it, can you explain how it increases the effectiveness of, let's say a 25-06, over 450yds? I've never found a good 115gr or 120gr bullet lacking at those ranges on deer and antelope.

If the barrel twist is fast enough, it (135gr Berger) would be easier to make the 25-06 a long range target competitor with the Creedmoor.

The developers of these cartridges knew a thing or two about ballistics, even if they didn't have computers 100 years ago.

does it need to increase the effectiveness? some people like different things if it was all about "effectiveness" everyone would shoot the exact same bullet in the exact same cartridge and manufactures wouldn't produce anything else, im not trying to change anyones mind here its a new interesting product on the market for PRS focused on 25-06 and 25 creed I would enjoy a barrel set up for target shooting and hunting in a heaver bullet in 25 cal.

no-regard · #11 01-18-2021, 11:10 AM

Great news for sure. I haven't shot my .25-06 for a few years but it has been top of mind lately. Maybe I can get it burned out and rebarelled, likely take awhile but it will be fun.

With Berger getting on board I think we could expect to see other big manufacturers offering more options as well.

Will a fast twist barrel still stabilize the lighter/shorter bullets?

Dubious · #12 01-18-2021, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no-regard

Great news for sure. I haven't shot my .25-06 for a few years but it has been top of mind lately. Maybe I can get it burned out and rebarelled, likely take awhile but it will be fun.

With Berger getting on board I think we could expect to see other big manufacturers offering more options as well.

Will a fast twist barrel still stabilize the lighter/shorter bullets?

now that an intersection question here's what I have found,

I have had a 1-8 in mind for the 25 for some time now I emailed Sierra about there 70 gr blitsking hoping to find out if the bullets would just blow apart from the high rpm of the faster twist, sierras response was "1-8 twist will be fine", I also emailed Carson at Lilja barrels he recommended a 1-7 OR 1-8 for the 131 ace and recommended a 1-12 for the 70 gr sierras and a 1-10 for 100 gr bullets he also said it wouldn't be optimal to have one barrel cover the entire spectrum. this is why with burger now on board (hopefully hornady to follow) it would be nice to see a hunting bullet come out in the 130 gr weight for the 25cals. guess ill just have to order a Lilja barrel and try it out and wait for more stuff to come on the market from major manufactures.

Ranger CS · #13 01-18-2021, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Many people paid less for their rifle, than a replacement barrel costs.

What would be an average cost of a barrel replacement be nowadays?
I think it would be reasonable to predict some of the major manufactures will offer factory rifles with faster twist rifling will they not?

no-regard · #14 01-18-2021, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubious

now that an intersection question here's what I have found,

I have had a 1-8 in mind for the 25 for some time now I emailed Sierra about there 70 gr blitsking hoping to find out if the bullets would just blow apart from the high rpm of the faster twist, sierras response was "1-8 twist will be fine", I also emailed Carson at Lilja barrels he recommended a 1-7 OR 1-8 for the 131 ace and recommended a 1-12 for the 70 gr sierras and a 1-10 for 100 gr bullets he also said it wouldn't be optimal to have one barrel cover the entire spectrum. this is why with burger now on board (hopefully hornady to follow) it would be nice to see a hunting bullet come out in the 130 gr weight for the 25cals. guess ill just have to order a Lilja barrel and try it out and wait for more stuff to come on the market from major manufactures.

This is what I thought. Thanks for the info.

duceman · #15 01-18-2021, 01:29 PM

fyi; heavy .257 bullets have been available for at least 5 years; made here in alberta. my limited testing with 135’s and 140’s from chinchaga bullets showed excellent results.
i’m burning up my supply of 115 bergers then getting more serious with dale’s bullets in my f-gun with 8 twist.

Dean2 · #16 01-18-2021, 01:46 PM

This whole heavy for calibre bullet trend is getting carried way too far. Next thing you know you will need a 1:3 twist to stabilise them. My view, move up a calibre if you want to shoot heavier bullets.

eric2381 · #17 01-19-2021, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean2

This whole heavy for calibre bullet trend is getting carried way too far. Next thing you know you will need a 1:3 twist to stabilise them. My view, move up a calibre if you want to shoot heavier bullets.

I agree. I’m going the opposite way. Instead of soft heavy long and slow bullets, I’m going to lighter, much faster, deep penetrating bullets. Barnes Ttsx. In the case of 25 cal, I love the 80gr Ttsx moving at 3875fps out of my 25-06 AI. 135gr bullets and a special rifle to shoot them? Plus being temperamental to get shooting well?? No thanks.

wayne · #18 01-19-2021, 03:59 PM

With the biggest player in the "heavy for caliber bullet trend" being Winchester/Browning's 6.8 Western cartridge it is not too much of a stretch to imagine a 258 Western coming down the pipe too.

waldedw · #19 01-19-2021, 04:21 PM

It would be sweet out of my 257 WM but a 1 in 10 twist won't cut it and I'm not rebarreling my first light just so I can shoot a heavier bullet, I'll just shoot my 6.5 PRC if I need more bullet.

Jerry D · #20 01-19-2021, 04:43 PM

Soon we’ll be shooting javelin bullets!

Bearsden · #21 01-19-2021, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry D

Soon we’ll be shooting javelin bullets!

The all new 6.5 199 grain Javelin!! Coming soon

duceman · #22 01-20-2021, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric2381

I agree. I’m going the opposite way. Instead of soft heavy long and slow bullets, I’m going to lighter, much faster, deep penetrating bullets. Barnes Ttsx. In the case of 25 cal, I love the 80gr Ttsx moving at 3875fps out of my 25-06 AI. 135gr bullets and a special rifle to shoot them? Plus being temperamental to get shooting well?? No thanks.

check your performance at 900m with the 80 ttsx............. it's ok to accept the fact that not everyone is strictly a 300 yd 'freezer filler'

eric2381 · #23 01-20-2021, 09:39 AM

How many animals do you kill at 900yds with a 25 cal? I’ve one shot killed a few deer and an antelope at 400yds. And that’s good enough for me. Hold right on em and shoot.

eric2381 · #24 01-20-2021, 09:51 AM

But yes, for sure, more bullets are shot at targets than at game. And for targets this new bullet might be just the right thing for some people. Just not me.

Dean2 · #25 01-20-2021, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric2381

How many animals do you kill at 900yds with a 25 cal? I’ve one shot killed a few deer and an antelope at 400yds. And that’s good enough for me. Hold right on em and shoot.

I agree, pop guns at 1000 yards is a bad idea. You want to hunt at long range, learn to shoot a 300 RUM, 28 Nosler or 338 Lapua. If you can't shoot those well, stick to 700 yards or less.

Your point abbout target guns is a good one. If the B.C. is high enough, and depending on the velocity trade off, it might make a decent target round but I would think the 6.5s with all the bullet choices available for them would be a far easier row to hoe.

Jerry D · #26 01-22-2021, 04:35 AM

On a hunting note, Sierra has a 110gr tipped game king. Excited to try it due to price point and its recommendations for medium game in my .25-06. I’ve shot a number with the .110 gr accubond and don’t see a reason to change though.

Stinky Coyote · #27 01-22-2021, 11:34 AM

This would get a lot more interesting at 150gr, g1 bc likely approach .8 and sd would then be .324 (similar to a 159 gr 6.5mm at .326)

so the 135 i don't think would make a commercial success, niche maybe

a proper roll out(rifles/ammo/bullets) of anything approaching .325 sd and mid .7 up to .8 g1 bc will have a chance of long standing success...imo

especially if recoil energy in a 'fits most shooters' range

Faststeel · #28 01-22-2021, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubious

those types of people probably won't be shooting a bullet that needs a custom barrel and has to be hand loaded.

In 25 caliber

Dubious · #29 01-22-2021, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faststeel

In 25 caliber

Truth. 😂

I dont expect to see anything in 150 gr in 25 cal as dean mentioned above rate of twist does become silly and your going to lose out on the lighter end of the spectrum. I’ve always planned for a rebarrel for the 131 black Jack bullet this new bullet is just the icing on the cake for me. My hope for a heavy hunting bullet isn’t to shoot game at extended distances it’s to not have to have to spin on a second barrel every fall. My current set up in the rifle has been 100 gr bullets for big game and 70gr for varmints that diet of 70gr ammo on the gopher fields has expedited my need for a new barrel.

25 cal will always be a cult classic I dont think it’ll become a bread and butter hunting or target shooting caliber It’s not the only caliber I run for that reason.