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Old 12-07-2016, 11:36 AM
kayaker kayaker is offline
 
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Default Advice: 'traditional' BP muzzleloading and extreme cold?

Hi all,
I am curious how the more experienced traditional ML hunters operate in very cold weather.

Note: I talking about a Hawken replica .50 cal using loose BP (Goex FFg or FFFg) with patched ball, no. 11 cap ignition, no breech plug. I am not using pellets, 209 primers or sabot bullets.

Loads and condensation: during a hunt like Wainwright what do you do at the end of the day? It seems the best option is to fire the load at the end of legal then one can simply swab/reload in the morning. The unnecessary shooting in the hunting area is not ideal though. Do any of you leave the rifle charged (obviously ‘unloaded’ with cap removed)? Do you leave it cold or do you take it into a warm building and risk condensation? How many days would you do that for?

Performance: I have never shot my ML in the cold. Do you notice a drop in velocity and POI? I don't need or load for 'magnum' performance but am curious if there is a noticeable difference? I will also test this winter...

Lube: I just use TC Bore Butter on my patches but heard that it is not great in the cold , rendered Mink Oil is much better. Is this true?

Thanks!
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Old 12-07-2016, 11:42 AM
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catnthehat catnthehat is offline
 
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I used to leave my gun out in the cold, never bringing it inside or even into the truck cab.
However when hunting at a place like Wainright where you can be in an out constantly and in town for the evening, I used to discharge the gun or pull the ball, and clean it totally every evening with soap and water then drying it out once I brought the rifle inside.
I do the same with my ML shotguns while hunting if it is cold out.
Never had issues with misfires., even in extreme cold when the gun sat in a toboggan for several days.
Cat
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Old 12-07-2016, 04:53 PM
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I had trouble with my muzzle loader on a 3-day hunt to Sask a few years ago. I left it charged, and in the truck over 2 nights. The weather was below freezing both nights and slightly above during the day, with high humidity. At the end of the hunt, the charge finally ignited - on the 3rd primer! I'm glad that I never got a chance at a big deer that trip - I would have kicked my own butt around the block!
Lesson learned. At Wainwright last week, I fired off the load at the end of the day, swabbed & reloaded the following morning.

I used to think that those shots you hear fired just after dark were 'Hail Mary' shots at deer by hunters pushing their luck. Now I'm one of them - just clearing my load.
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Old 12-07-2016, 05:04 PM
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I think a lot of the more experienced hunters reload every morning because of the humidity and temp changes when bringing a rifle inside .
Cat
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Old 12-07-2016, 06:31 PM
Bushleague Bushleague is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thumper View Post
I had trouble with my muzzle loader on a 3-day hunt to Sask a few years ago. I left it charged, and in the truck over 2 nights. The weather was below freezing both nights and slightly above during the day, with high humidity. At the end of the hunt, the charge finally ignited - on the 3rd primer! I'm glad that I never got a chance at a big deer that trip - I would have kicked my own butt around the block!
Lesson learned. At Wainwright last week, I fired off the load at the end of the day, swabbed & reloaded the following morning.

I used to think that those shots you hear fired just after dark were 'Hail Mary' shots at deer by hunters pushing their luck. Now I'm one of them - just clearing my load.
Was the rifle traveling in the cab? My current shift gives me 4 days off in a row, I load the Hawken in the evening after my last day of work, hunt with it for four days, and shoot the charge off on the evening of the last day. I did this almost the whole season and never had trouble with the charge going off. Heres exactly what I do.

Before loading I run a patch of rubbing alchohol down the barrel and let it dry for about an hour. I then load using only real black powder for hunting purposes. I put a chunk of wax paper between the powder and the lubed patch. Then I duct tape the barrel, every morning when I put a primer on I seal it with nail polish, which also works good for keeping my nails pretty. I leave the charged gun in the tool box of my truck for the full four days so it never gets warm.
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Old 12-07-2016, 06:39 PM
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I think leaving it in your jockey box is one of the keys
Sounds like you have it down pat- I like the wax paper idea !
Cat
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Old 12-07-2016, 06:48 PM
Bushleague Bushleague is offline
 
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Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
I think leaving it in your jockey box is one of the keys
Sounds like you have it down pat- I like the wax paper idea !
Cat
Oops, forgot one thing, before loading the rifle I clean the nipple and hole with a pipe cleaner, and then fire off two primers. For the second one I run a patched jag to the bottom of the barrel and make sure the primer leaves a good burn on the patch. I want any type of contaminant out of my "chamber" before I load the gun.

I don't know exactly what the key is, but I know that what I'm doing has worked for me over and over without fail, in all kinds of conditions. And to the OP, I was playing around with sabots a bit this season, and after 4 days loaded as described I was able to hit about a 6" knot in a large alder tree from a paced off 150 yards.
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Last edited by Bushleague; 12-07-2016 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 12-07-2016, 06:54 PM
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I actually do the same thing when snapping caps!
My theory is that if there is moisture in there it may get pushed back down when I load the rifle so putting the rod down the barrel with the patch captures any exccess that may be in there whe the cap on s snapped .
Cat
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Old 12-07-2016, 08:00 PM
kayaker kayaker is offline
 
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Thanks guys,

Interestingly on US forums there are a lot of guys who leave muzzle loaders loaded for long periods, up to months at a time.

It seems that when in doubt, clear the load.

I also use an over powder wad (1/4" fibre wad).
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Old 12-07-2016, 09:46 PM
JCart JCart is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushleague View Post
Before loading I run a patch of rubbing alchohol down the barrel and let it dry for about an hour. I then load using only real black powder for hunting purposes. I put a chunk of wax paper between the powder and the lubed patch. Then I duct tape the barrel, every morning when I put a primer on I seal it with nail polish, which also works good for keeping my nails pretty. I leave the charged gun in the tool box of my truck for the full four days so it never gets warm.
Good ideas!

For lube moose milk I use A10 cutting lube, Dawn liquid soap and Blue windshield washer fluid. Not used it in the winter but shouldn't freeze just make sure squeeze the patches and dump all the loose fluid from your patch box.

jrc
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Old 12-07-2016, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushleague View Post
Was the rifle traveling in the cab? .
Yes, The rifle travels in the cab, and into the hotel room in most of the scuzzy places I stay at. Nothing stolen though !
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Old 12-08-2016, 10:22 AM
Bushleague Bushleague is offline
 
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Yes, The rifle travels in the cab, and into the hotel room in most of the scuzzy places I stay at. Nothing stolen though !
Yep, that too can be a factor. But I would say that the condensation was your issue with the charge not going off. If major tempature swings can be avoided and the powder kept free of contamination, with care a load can be counted on to do what its supposed to for up to a week. Beyond a week I have no personal experience.
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Old 12-08-2016, 10:35 AM
calgarychef calgarychef is offline
 
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Default Black powder

I've only gone to wainwright once but did use real black powder. I loaded and left the gun in the truck for the three day hunt with no issues.

Here's my understanding about condensation, a temperature differential causes the moisture in the air to condense on surfaces, we've all seen this on a beer glass. In a loaded gun the only air is in the barrel and mine is taped off so really there's very little air available and what there is contains a minuscule amount of water vapour. Unless the air is going to get in through the nipple I don't see where moisture would come from.

It's an interesting thing to think about though. It's cold enough outside right now to do a test. I can't because I live in Calgary and nowhere to easily shoot off the charge at the end of the test. I wonder is someone could give it a try though...load the charge with a PRB or lead bullet seated. Bring the gun in and out of the cold for a couple (few?) days. Wipe the condensation off the outside of the gun so it doesn't rust of course. Then put on a cap and see what happens?

PEte Ward if you're reading this....I nominate you!
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Old 12-08-2016, 11:21 AM
jpohlic jpohlic is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarychef View Post
I've only gone to wainwright once but did use real black powder. I loaded and left the gun in the truck for the three day hunt with no issues.

Here's my understanding about condensation, a temperature differential causes the moisture in the air to condense on surfaces, we've all seen this on a beer glass. In a loaded gun the only air is in the barrel and mine is taped off so really there's very little air available and what there is contains a minuscule amount of water vapour. Unless the air is going to get in through the nipple I don't see where moisture would come from.

It's an interesting thing to think about though. It's cold enough outside right now to do a test. I can't because I live in Calgary and nowhere to easily shoot off the charge at the end of the test. I wonder is someone could give it a try though...load the charge with a PRB or lead bullet seated. Bring the gun in and out of the cold for a couple (few?) days. Wipe the condensation off the outside of the gun so it doesn't rust of course. Then put on a cap and see what happens?

PEte Ward if you're reading this....I nominate you!
I've taken my .50 percussion muzzleloader in and out of the camper at least 8 times this November. It's still charged and if I remember this thread when I finally fire it off I'll let you know how it goes. It's loaded with triple 7, not real black powder.
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Old 07-29-2019, 03:05 PM
jpohlic jpohlic is offline
 
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Originally Posted by jpohlic View Post
I've taken my .50 percussion muzzleloader in and out of the camper at least 8 times this November. It's still charged and if I remember this thread when I finally fire it off I'll let you know how it goes. It's loaded with triple 7, not real black powder.
Well, it's been sitting in the gun safe for 2.5 years but I finally got a chance to take this rifle out. It's been sitting with a 490 gr buffalo bullet in front of about 90 grains of 2F triple 7 powder. I pulled the hammer back, put a cap on it and pulled the trigger... and it went bang! I even hit what I was aiming at!
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Old 07-29-2019, 04:01 PM
saskbooknut saskbooknut is offline
 
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We leave our ML rifles loaded, but not capped, in camp. We fire the load and clean the gun if driving to another camp, or home.

Have hunted in minus 20 degree weather but not colder. No doubts about the gun going off.
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