Ontario snowbirds upset they need travel insurance? Really?

[Sundancefisher]

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/snowbirds...ance-1.4750383

TORONTO -- TORONTO -- A group representing Canadians who spend part of the year in sunnier climes has filed a legal challenge against Ontario's decision to scrap out-of-country health insurance, saying the government's move goes against the portability pillar of the Canada Health Act.

The Canadian Snowbird Association announced Thursday that it was seeking an injunction to delay the changes that came into effect on New Year's Day so a court can rule on their legality.

"We are filing this legal challenge on behalf of our members, and all Ontario travellers, in order to protect their right to out-of-country emergency medical care, which is enshrined in the Canada Health Act," association president Karen Huestis said in a written statement. "These cuts are an egregious violation of the portability requirement of the CHA and must be addressed head-on."


The program covered out-of-country inpatient services up to $400 per day for higher level of care, and up to $50 per day for emergency outpatient and doctor services.

Health Minister Christine Elliott announced last May that the government would cut the program, saying it was costly and did not provide value to taxpayers. The announcement followed a six-day public consultation.

Elliott's spokeswoman wouldn't comment on the case as it is before the courts, but said the program was costly and largely ineffectual, paying out only five cents of every dollar claimed.

"With this limited coverage and low reimbursement rate, OHIP-eligible Ontarians who do not purchase private travel health insurance can be left with catastrophically large bills to pay," Hayley Chazan said in an email.

Elliott has said the province spends $2.8 million to administer approximately $9 million in claim payments through the program every year.

In a July letter to Elliott, the federal government warned that scrapping the program could cost Ontarians.

"If all publicly financed reimbursement of out-of-country physician and hospital services is eliminated, private health insurance premiums for travellers will inevitably rise for all Ontario residents," then-health minister Ginette Petitpas Taylor wrote. "Even modest increases could pose a hardship for some individuals."

Provincial NDP health critic France Gelinas, who says the policy change violates the Canada Health Act, wrote to the federal government this fall urging them to take action.

"I work at Queen's Park, there are more lawyers per square inch than anywhere else, and every single one I've talked to all said the same thing: It violates the Canada Health Act," she said. "It's one of the five tenets ... it needs to be there."

Gelinas said the change means Ontario is the only province or territory that does not provide some basic health coverage to residents while they are outside Canada, even if it is a small amount.

"There are so many people who will never be able to buy insurance," she said. "It's just not feasible or affordable for them. For them, that little wee bit of a guarantee was there and was meaningful."

--With files by Shawn Jeffords.

Have I messed something in Alberta? If I travel outside Canada I just thought you needed insurance in order cover costs.

Who assumes going to the US that travel insurance was not needed. There are so many stories of Canadians in massive debt after getting sick..

Now another thread entirely is the scam they call travel insurance.

One needs to be a doctor and lawyer to fill it out.

Heard once someone was massively in debt after having a heart attack in the US. They had travel insurance. When they filled out the form they checked off never treated for a heart condition. Turned out the fine print listed testing as treatment. He had an EKG done and it found nothing. Still...on that basis the claim was denied.

For big claims they have a team pour through your medical records and review what you checked off on the form.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/snowbirds...ance-1.4750383

[Twisted Canuck]

I appreciate the irony of the comment that 'so many people can't afford (travel) insurance.... Oh? Then how can they afford to travel and snowbird out of country for the winter?? Simple solution, if you can't afford insurance to travel you can't afford to travel, so stay home.

[elkhunter11]

Simple solution, if you can't afford insurance to travel you can't afford to travel, so stay home.

Exactly what I was thinking. Although it does cost me more than it used to when my company benefits covered out of country health insurance, if I can afford to travel, I can afford the health insurance.

[bat119]

Travel insurance is a really sketchy business they will take your money then try every way possible not to pay.
My wife and I have Blue cross we traveled to Yuma for a few months we purchased travel insurance.
The wife contracted a bad flu, we went to a doctor were told told cash upfront you can recoup the cash from Blue cross, we were not really in a position to argue put up $3000 for the appointment. A blood test, xray and a prescription came to $1850 they refunded the balance.
Now the fight began I submitted the bill to Blue cross they said unless it's emergency treatment we should have gotten approval for treatment, long story short we did get refunded about 6 months later if I wouldn't have put up a fight we would have got nothing.

[Selkirk]

.



It's just Good Ol' Doug ... continuing to 'Clean House', in Onterrible.

Selkirk

[Ken07AOVette]

Cut everything that is not essential, sounds good to me. Next liberal arts, and another 35 trillion other things our money is wasted on

[FCLightning]

Always assumed that out of country medical was on your dime. Never gave it a thought that other provinces were actually paying it.

[traderal]

On some Blue cross/private insurance cases there is a lifetime limit on coverage amount, from which is subtracted each claim.
But yes why should taxpayers fund out of country vacation health coverage, unless of course its for our world vacation traveling PM. Don't want to deplete his trust fund.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Cut everything that is not essential, sounds good to me. Next liberal arts, and another 35 trillion other things our money is wasted on

Yup, travel insurance only applies to those who can afford to travel. Never bothered me having to buy it. It's all about Entitlement.

Grizz

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Yup, travel insurance only applies to those who can afford to travel. Never bothered me having to buy it. It's all about Entitlement.

Grizz

Exactly!

Unless I am reading it wrong, and maybe the 'coverage' we get from the insurance company is not actual coverage?


The way it seems is they want something else for free, if for nothing other than entitlement as you say.

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Cut everything that is not essential, sounds good to me. Next liberal arts, and another 35 trillion other things our money is wasted on

Really...historians, writers, teachers and psychologists...fields that are considered to be liberal arts.
Sounds exactly like the teachings of Mao and Pol Pot.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Really...historians, writers, teachers and psychologists...fields that are considered to be liberal arts.
Sounds exactly like the teachings of Mao and Pol Pot.

So Mao and Pol Pot had no historians, writers, teachers, or psychologists?

Well maybe not psychologists, but that would be more likely an era thing; not a political thing.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Really...historians, writers, teachers and psychologists...fields that are considered to be liberal arts.
Sounds exactly like the teachings of Mao and Pol Pot.

I'm not Asian. I studied under Mrs wolf, Mrs ball, Mrs Dobson and so on.

And nothing will ever be cut with the word liberal inbedded as long as the east is in the big chair

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

So Mao and Pol Pot had no historians, writers, teachers, or psychologists?

Well maybe not psychologists, but that would be more likely an era thing; not a political thing.

Sure they did, on staff to make sure the message was politically correct and amend it when necessary.

Grizz

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I'm not Asian. I studied under Mrs wolf, Mrs ball, Mrs Dobson and so on.

And nothing will ever be cut with the word liberal inbedded as long as the east is in the big chair

Sorry Ken, I just tire of all the bashing of 'liberal arts' around here.
Like to admit it or not, most here on AO are worker drones (myself included) who like nothing more than having a beer and talking hunting in our spare time...and so figure there's no need for money going on 'liberal arts'.
Let me tell you about a couple of people I know through my work.
One is one of the most respected heart surgeons at the Mazankowski heart centre in Edmonton. If you are having a traumatic heart incident he is the man in Western Canada you hope to have at your surgery.
You think in his spare time he sits with his buddies drinking beer and talking reloading?
Nope...he goes to the theatre, museums, art galleries and he travels a lot.
Do you really want that kind of person going elsewhere because there is nothing that interests him in our city?
Another is the president parent company I work for. They have 82 stores in Western Canada employing over 5000 people.
Again...you think he swills beer and talks sh*t with his buddies.
I know for a fact he doesn't...he is a huge patron of the arts.
So...you want him taking his 5000 jobs elsewhere because there is nothing to enjoy here?
Just because you have no use for the 'liberal arts' doesn't mean they have no value.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Sure they did, on staff to make sure the message was politically correct and amend it when necessary.

Grizz

And are not most those positions today in Canada “on staff” for the very same reasons?

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Sorry Ken, I just tire of all the bashing of 'liberal arts' around here.
Like to admit it or not, most here on AO are worker drones (myself included) who like nothing more than having a beer and talking hunting in our spare time...and so figure there's no need for money going on 'liberal arts'.
Let me tell you about a couple of people I know through my work.
One is one of the most respected heart surgeons at the Mazankowski heart centre in Edmonton. If you are having a traumatic heart incident he is the man in Western Canada you hope to have at your surgery.
You think in his spare time he sits with his buddies drinking beer and talking reloading?
Nope...he goes to the theatre, museums, art galleries and he travels a lot.
Do you really want that kind of person going elsewhere because there is nothing that interests him in our city?
Another is the president parent company I work for. They have 82 stores in Western Canada employing over 5000 people.
Again...you think he swills beer and talks sh*t with his buddies.
I know for a fact he doesn't...he is a huge patron of the arts.
So...you want him taking his 5000 jobs elsewhere because there is nothing to enjoy here?
Just because you have no use for the 'liberal arts' doesn't mean they have no value.

ok

you are sitting at the Mazankowski Centre, having waited for your name to be called for heart surgery for 3 years. You have lost 40% of your muscle mass and are now unable to work, walk or wipe yourself.

The Nurse walks in, and says 'we are sorry but because of Trudeau's cutbacks you are going to be placed on the waiting list indefinately. But there is good news, as you are being driven home, because in your case you are too weak to drive, if you look out the window, you will see the new $1,200,000 statute at the Alberta Museum. Doncha feel better now?

Priorities Bob, is all I was saying. Fix the bad then worry about the poor Millionaire's and the Doctor's leisure time.


Amount spent on Canada Council for the Arts $292,632,337
Museums $31,080,812

Over a third of a BILLION DOLLARS spent on the Liberal Arts in Canada in 1 year Bob.

You think this isn't reason for concern?

https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-bo...e-program.html

[Ken07AOVette]

MIssed another few dollars, your museums and dance troups

Canadian Heritage 1,310,822,919

1.31 Billion dollars in 2019

Library and Archives, just a measly $120,000,000

National Arts, $32,000,000

National Gallery $51,000,000

National Museum of Science and Tech $31,000,000

Social Sciences $786.000.000

Telefilm Canada $101,000,000

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

ok

you are sitting at the Mazankowski Centre, having waited for your name to be called for heart surgery for 3 years. You have lost 40% of your muscle mass and are now unable to work, walk or wipe yourself.

The Nurse walks in, and says 'we are sorry but because of Trudeau's cutbacks you are going to be placed on the waiting list indefinately. But there is good news, as you are being driven home, because in your case you are too weak to drive, if you look out the window, you will see the new $1,200,000 statute at the Alberta Museum. Doncha feel better now?

Priorities Bob, is all I was saying. Fix the bad then worry about the poor Millionaire's and the Doctor's leisure time.


Amount spent on Canada Council for the Arts $292,632,337
Museums $31,080,812

Over a third of a BILLION DOLLARS spent on the Liberal Arts in Canada in 1 year Bob.

You think this isn't reason for concern?

https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-bo...e-program.html

C'mon Ken the 2019 Canadian budge was $355 billion. So your 1/3 of a billion dollars is 0.1% of the budget.
Yeah...that's going to decrease you waiting time in surgery.
And your stated case...is either exceptional or their were extenuating circumstances...I've had cause to take advantage of Alberta Health due to heart issues...and your stated case is definitely not the norm...I know it as well as you.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

C'mon Ken the 2019 Canadian budge was $355 billion. So your 1/3 of a billion dollars is 0.1% of the budget.
Yeah...that's going to decrease you waiting time in surgery.
And your stated case...is either exceptional or their were extenuating circumstances...I've had cause to take advantage of Alberta Health due to heart issues...and your stated case is definitely not the norm...I know it as well as you.

Saying that your millionaire buddy will pull 83 stores and 5000 jobs out of Canada because Liberal arts has been cut is the norm?

Both ends of the rope Bob

You are talking about the most ultimate of Luxuries for the Most Elite people.

A hell of a lot of the working class could not give a fiddler's fancy about making sure 'the arts' are well funded for the next decade. We are trying to get through January.

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Saying that your millionaire buddy will pull 83 stores and 5000 jobs out of Canada because Liberal arts has been cut is the norm?

Both ends of the rope Bob

You are talking about the most ultimate of Luxuries for the Most Elite people.

A hell of a lot of the working class could not give a fiddler's fancy about making sure 'the arts' are well funded for the next decade. We are trying to get through January.

That's your perspective Ken (and your welcome to it). But all the friends I know (and that's a lot) are working, and though none are rich all go to cultural events.
Not everyone in Alberta is a camping/hunting redneck. And I consider myself to be just that...but guess what...I also go to the art gallery, attend live theatre and quite enjoy the symphony (and again, I'm by no means 'rich').
It's not just about you Ken.
And that's the last I'll say on the subject.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

That's your perspective Ken (and your welcome to it). But all the friends I know (and that's a lot) are working, and though none are rich all go to cultural events.
Not everyone in Alberta is a camping/hunting redneck. And I consider myself to be just that...but guess what...I also go to the art gallery, attend live theatre and quite enjoy the symphony (and again, I'm by no means 'rich').
It's not just about you Ken.
And that's the last I'll say on the subject.

'That's my perspective, and I am welcome to it, but it's not just about me.'

I started by saying CUT LIBERAL ARTS and you jumped on me.

Horribly weak sauce Bob.

You know I enjoy discussing with you, you are an interesting guy but you take this far too personal and jump on me with a bridle in your mouth.

Why? In our little corner of the globe, with the 1029 views of this thread, do you feel the need to jump on my back and slam my fingers so I can't type?

In your own words, that is .0000000001% of the population viewing, how big a difference can it make?

Donate to the Arts like your rich friends do, go out and make a difference, PLEASE!

But taking my tax money and spending it like this puts the hair up on the back of my neck.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

C'mon Ken the 2019 Canadian budge was $355 billion. So your 1/3 of a billion dollars is 0.1% of the budget.
Yeah...that's going to decrease you waiting time in surgery.
And your stated case...is either exceptional or their were extenuating circumstances...I've had cause to take advantage of Alberta Health due to heart issues...and your stated case is definitely not the norm...I know it as well as you.

Interesting question. Is $333,333,333 material to healthcare.

In fact it equates to about 8400 hip replacement surgeries. You would be able to pay to send 7500 to the US for the operation and cover travel and accommodation. Sometimes I wonder if the problem is the backlog...beat the backlog down and it helps a lot.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Donate to the Arts like your rich friends do, go out and make a difference, PLEASE!

But taking my tax money and spending it like this puts the hair up on the back of my neck.

Well said Ken!

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

'That's my perspective, and I am welcome to it, but it's not just about me.'

I started by saying CUT LIBERAL ARTS and you jumped on me.

Horribly weak sauce Bob.

You know I enjoy discussing with you, you are an interesting guy but you take this far too personal and jump on me with a bridle in your mouth.

Why? In our little corner of the globe, with the 1029 views of this thread, do you feel the need to jump on my back and slam my fingers so I can't type?

In your own words, that is .0000000001% of the population viewing, how big a difference can it make?

Donate to the Arts like your rich friends do, go out and make a difference, PLEASE!

But taking my tax money and spending it like this puts the hair up on the back of my neck.

Sorry you feel that way Ken. I didn't jump on you in particular...in fact I said I was tired of all the liberal arts bashing here (on AO).
And it goes on a lot. I guess you got it to some degree because on a thread about out of country insurance you brought up the money spent on liberal arts.
So I would say we both have a part in it.
That being said you've stated that I and my RICH friends should feel free to donate to the arts.
Guess what...hunters and campers are now in the minority. Do you feel that all those that don't enjoy the outdoors should be able to say 'do not take my tax dollars to sustain the wilderness or pay for fish and wildlife management or pay for fish and wildlife cops'.
There are a lot of people in Canada with different interests...we sort of have to keep them all happy to some degree.
And Ken...I thoroughly enjoy about 95% of what you have to say here...in fact think you are one of the best people here...but as someone involved in both outdoor pursuits and as someone who has had my artwork displayed in the Edmonton Art Gallery (and others across Canada) I do take offense when people have the mistaken attitude that the arts are for the rich and has no value.

[barbless]

I'm somewhat lost in the midst of a snow storm here. Snowbirds to Liberal Arts? How we get lost in a conversation...……..

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by barbless

I'm somewhat lost in the midst of a snow storm here. Snowbirds to Liberal Arts? How we get lost in a conversation...……..

I said this;

Cut everything that is not essential, sounds good to me. Next liberal arts, and another 35 trillion other things our money is wasted on

Triggered Bob

Sorry Bob.

[barbless]

Funny how nothing was put in those stat's about the lucrative gold pensions that all politicians get for only serving 8 years. After 20 yrs if I don't retire by the end of 2021 I will lose equal to 14 weeks of pension pay from the city. Thanks for nothing. No snowbird here for sure. There are places in my own country I still wanna see. Guess I'm a different snowbird

[bat119]

Saskatchewan out of country

Out-of-Country Emergency Coverage
If patients receive emergency medical or hospital care while outside Canada, they will be responsible for paying the difference between the amount charged and the amount the Ministry reimburses.
The costs outside Canada are often much higher than in Saskatchewan. For this reason, we strongly recommend residents carry extra medical insurance when travelling outside Canada.

The article points at snowbirds lots of people especially young people travel without additional coverage.

As an example
Up to $50 CAD for an outpatient hospital visit. Your Saskatchewan health coverage will not pay for more than two visits in one day.

A doctor visit in Yuma was $1850

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by bat119

Saskatchewan out of country

Out-of-Country Emergency Coverage
If patients receive emergency medical or hospital care while outside Canada, they will be responsible for paying the difference between the amount charged and the amount the Ministry reimburses.
The costs outside Canada are often much higher than in Saskatchewan. For this reason, we strongly recommend residents carry extra medical insurance when travelling outside Canada.

The article points at snowbirds lots of people especially young people travel without additional coverage.

As an example
Up to $50 CAD for an outpatient hospital visit. Your Saskatchewan health coverage will not pay for more than two visits in one day.

A doctor visit in Yuma was $1850

Made me wonder

Provincial Health Plan Coverage Limits for Out of Country Medical Care

Province / Territory
Emergency Room Coverage Limits While Travelling Outside Canada*

Outpatient Visit
Inpatient Visit
Alberta
Up to $50 CAD per day
$100 CAD per day
British Columbia
Up to $75 CAD per day
$75 CAD per day
Manitoba
Up to $100 CAD per day
Same rate as the provincial rate sheet
New Brunswick
Up to $50 CAD per day
$100 CAD per day
Newfoundland
Same rate as the provincial rate sheet
Same rate as the provincial rate sheet
Nova Scotia
None declared
$525.00 CAD + 50% of ancillary fees incurred while an inpatient
Ontario
Up to $50 CAD per day
$200 - $400 CAD per day
Prince Edward Island
Same rate as the provincial rate sheet
Same rate as the provincial rate sheet
Quebec
Up to $50 CAD per day
$100 CAD per day
Saskatchewan
Up to $50 CAD per day
$100 CAD per day
Yukon Territory
Same rate as the provincial rate sheet
Same rate as the provincial rate sheet

https://www.snowbirdadvisorinsurance...rance-coverage

Who knew.