Do we have enough moose?

[35 whelen]

Originally Posted by Who Da Fisherman

And take away hunter host, make it by draw. I still cannot understand how AB lets everyone come and shoot here.

WDF

Hunter host is a fine tool if used properly I just did a hunter host in BC and it will do it again, they just have to make it harder to get.

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[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by RockyMountainMusic

A couple years ago the Alberta gov made the decision to follow suite of all the other provinces across Canada in that to have hunting rights in AB your treaty/rights had to be from the province, The local F&W officer was told of the change and informed the people he knew (guys with treaties from newfoundland/BC/Sask etc) that they could no longer hunt in AB under that treaty. This decision lasted less than 2 weeks and the AB gov reversed it back to free for all. So if you have a treaty anywhere in Canada your welcome in AB but if your from AB you can not go to any other province with the same freedom...

As for moose sustainability, as an example: when it was a Nov general tag in WMU 353 lots of people shot moose including FN and all was good, there was like a thousand tags even the first year it went draw. Now in WMU 353 where for over a decade the Gov of AB has been trying really hard to eradicate the moose(to save a few caribou) by giving out thousands of tags and cow/calf tags and shooting moose from a chopper they still have failed miserably to do so. Yes its not as great as the zone used to be but anyone who has seen the zone from then to now also knows it also went from a beautiful timbered zone to a desert wasteland for a big part of it with industry. People don't like FN harvest but have no voice when the gov has been literally trying to decimate a species through aerial gunning and deliberately trying to over harvest. They have no voice when the gov shut down grizzly hunting, next to nobody out shooting predators, and nothing to say about the industry literally wiping out so much habitat and not even planning to reforest. So much roadkill where industry is highly active and I can go on but your right FN is the easy scapegoat. It all plays into a part of game management and unfortunately the ab gov has no intention on actual game management here.

The document referenced stated if your band was not a signatory band to a treaty that entered into Alberta, then you had no constitutional defined right to exercise treaty rights to hunt here as supported by Supreme Court Case law. So a Treaty Indian from Manitoba can legally exercise their rights here if the treaty their band is a signatory to enters into Alberta.

If my memory serves me correctly, this document was developed and released by the then PC government of Jim Prentice. It was released a few weeks before the 2015 election. 2015 election saw the NDP government formed which promptly removed the document and returned it to a free for all in Alberta.

A treaty Indian from Alberta can exercise their treaty rights in Saskatchewan if their treaty enters Saskatchewan.

In Ontario, treaty rights work a bit different. There a Treaty Indian’s rights only exist with in lands covered by their treaty. To exercise their rights on another treaty area in Ontario, they must get permission from the other treaty.

In my humble opinion, the real issue for wildlife in Alberta is access. Industrial development has opened up areas to vehicular travel that never existed a mere 20 years ago. Couple that with habitat loss and fragmentation and wildlife is under pressure like never before.

[CMichaud]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

In my humble opinion, the real issue for wildlife in Alberta is access. Industrial development has opened up areas to vehicular travel that never existed a mere 20 years ago. Couple that with habitat loss and fragmentation and wildlife is under pressure like never before.

Intuitively I agree with this although I would also add the increased human population both PONIE and Indigenous.

[rugerfan]

Yes populations are increasing. However the number of licenses sold to those that require one has been decreasing.

[dustinjoels]

Access is only an issue because it opens up more areas and easier to kill animals for both regulated and unregulated hunting.

[CMichaud]

Originally Posted by rugerfan

Yes populations are increasing. However the number of licenses sold to those that require one has been decreasing.

Too early to tell re licenses. There was actually steady growth in sales up until 2015 (90k to 128k) then a slight decline (120k) .

Hunting Licenses sold by season (Alberta Residents only and includes general and special licenses)

2006 - 91,214
2007 - 96,912
2008 - 100,513
2009 - 102,021
2010 - 104,889
2011 - 105,389
2012 - 111,568
2013 - 123,134
2014 - 123,276
2015 - 128,078
2016 - 127,020
2017 - 122,760
2018 - 122,085
2019 - 119,664

Source: https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/5abc...stics-2020.pdf

[Smoky buck]

Biggest factors are weather, predators, and habitat. Weather will always play a roll but predators and habitat will dictate how well ungulates rebound from years with tough weather conditions. This is partially why ungulates are doing better in agriculture areas less predators and crops providing better nutrition. Then add in snow depth is often less of an issue compared to many of the crown land in the west and north.

Yes regulated and unregulated hunting have an impact but for the most part this doesn’t go far from the roads. Most human predators don’t beyond a km from a road or trail. But the impact we make can be limited through regulation and is easier to address the issues caused by Mother Nature

Limiting forms of hunting impact is a good thing but you won’t see major changes without addressing predators and habitat. You could eliminate all hunting and continue to see no improvement or even a continuous decline

[59whiskers]

My relatives lived off the land when they built railroads and homesteaded here in what was known as the North West Territories. Many families ate wild meat to supplement their diet. Hunting traditions for our pioneers were just as important. Now we are losing access to hunt moose yearly on public lands. At this rate maybe we should hunt any wild game yearly on private land without licences. The whole system at this point is people management, not wildlife management and no political party will do anything about it.

[marky_mark]

These treaties were signed before the first automobile was ever made. Now we routinely send vessel to other planets. Times have changed slightly. There is no reason why unregulated harvesting should be allowed to continue. Traditions and customs can easily be passed down if we all played by the same rules

[shawn]

Below is what was in treaty 6 and many others in regards to hunting. At no point does it say that Indians can do whatever they want in regards to hunting and fishing. Rules can and should be made in regards to their hunting. Unfortunately our pathetic and spineless government refuses to what’s right, and when a government does, our disgusting liberal appointed supreme courts come up with ridiculous rulings.

Her Majesty further agrees with Her said Indians that they, the said Indians, shall have right to pursue their avocations of hunting and fishing throughout the tract surrendered as hereinbefore described, subject to such regulations as may from time to time be made by Her Government of Her Dominion of Canada, and saving and excepting such tracts as may from time to time be required or taken up for settlement, mining, lumbering or other purposes by Her said Government of the Dominion of Canada, or by any of the subjects thereof duly authorized therefor by the said Government.

[350 mag]

OMG.

So they slaughter all the Moose in Manitoba.

Then they move onto the Provincial Forests in Sask and decimate the numbers there..


Pretty sure Manitoba Reserves signed NO Treaties in Alberta.

Treaty 5 is Eastern Sask and Western Manitoba


Sask game wardens used to ticket/fine Quebec and Ontario Natives when trying to hunt Sask.

Rules maybe changed in past few years.

Maybe their Treaty rights are now good Canada wide?

I would like to see them cross the USA border and try to hunt down there??

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by shawn

Below is what was in treaty 6 and many others in regards to hunting. At no point does it say that Indians can do whatever they want in regards to hunting and fishing. Rules can and should be made in regards to their hunting. Unfortunately our pathetic and spineless government refuses to what’s right, and when a government does, our disgusting liberal appointed supreme courts come up with ridiculous rulings.

Her Majesty further agrees with Her said Indians that they, the said Indians, shall have right to pursue their avocations of hunting and fishing throughout the tract surrendered as hereinbefore described, subject to such regulations as may from time to time be made by Her Government of Her Dominion of Canada, and saving and excepting such tracts as may from time to time be required or taken up for settlement, mining, lumbering or other purposes by Her said Government of the Dominion of Canada, or by any of the subjects thereof duly authorized therefor by the said Government.

Isn't it odd how few people see the bolded phrase. That phrase provides the means to regulate all hunters, without violating the terms of the treaty.

[shawn]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Isn't it odd how few people see the bolded phrase. That phrase provides the means to regulate all hunters, without violating the terms of the treaty.

I think too few people have taken the time to read the treaties to see what is actually in them. I encourage everyone to educate themselves We have been led to believe that they say something which they don’t ( Indians can do whatever they want with no recourse) in terms of hunting.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by shawn

I think too few people have taken the time to read the treaties to see what is actually in them. I encourage everyone to educate themselves We have been led to believe that they say something which they don’t ( Indians can do whatever they want with no recourse) in terms of hunting.

Yes but the issue is getting a CO to enforce the laws and a judge that is willing to charge them

There has been many cases thrown out or slaps on the wrist given by judges when a CO lays charges. This deters many COs from even trying to lay charges

[shawn]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Yes but the issue is getting a CO to enforce the laws and a judge that is willing to charge them

There has been many cases thrown out or slaps on the wrist given by judges when a CO lays charges. This deters many COs from even trying to lay charges

This is a huge issue. Even when we get a judge with a spine the police do what they want, like refuse to enforce court orders in regards to rail blockades. As far as I am concerned who ever decided that they don’t have to enforce a court order should be in jail right now. When a judge Refuses to issue a mandatory minimum sentence they should be in jail. I see no point in having a democracy if unelected officials are going Disregard laws as they see fit. Unfortunately unless we get a government with a spine this will continue. Unless we the people start demanding more it will continue.

I have said to my wife that I honestly don’t believe that my son will be able to hunt when he is my age. Unless people look at what has happened and look at the way things are going, Sadly I will be right.

[Alfiecat]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

Im white
Pay taxes.
Work full time.
Own my home.
Hunt.
Shoot.
Fish.


And because Im white, Ive been blamed for everyones hardships who isnt white

Apparently Im racist only because im white

I get blamed today for the stuff white people did 200 years ago


Sounds like you and I should have a beer someday. We have experienced a lot of the same type of racism

Amen buddy. I hear ya. And A LOT of people are starting to agree with you. So hopefully the white man being at the bottom of the totem pole attitude out there where you are more equal than me .. will change soon