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Old 02-13-2008, 11:04 AM
bruceba bruceba is offline
 
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Default Open Spaces ? Afga Resolution

Watch out at the AFGA AGM. I just heard that resolution will be brought forward in support of OPEN SPACES.

BE IT RESOLVED THAT the Alberta Fish & Game Association is in support of the proposed Sustainable Resourse Developement's " OPEN SPACES ALBERTA"
pilot program as presented in it's preliminary form to this association.
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Old 02-13-2008, 11:08 AM
Rackmastr Rackmastr is offline
 
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Duk and I had a good chat last night on the phone....

I think something different needs to be done with the AFGA and how they handle big issues like this. There needs to be more consensus from the members and have the majority of the members decide what they feel is worth fighting, and what issues feel need to be defended, supported, etc..

Seems only logical that the majority of the organization would have the say in which way to direct focus on big issues such as this. I dont know how they could accomplish this, but when new issues come into light, something needs to be done to educate the ENTIRE membership and decide a general direction or focus of the group, dependant on the majority of the members...
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Old 02-13-2008, 11:21 AM
Duk Dog Duk Dog is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceba View Post
Watch out at the AFGA AGM. I just heard that resolution will be brought forward in support of OPEN SPACES.

BE IT RESOLVED THAT the Alberta Fish & Game Association is in support of the proposed Sustainable Resourse Developement's " OPEN SPACES ALBERTA"
pilot program as presented in it's preliminary form to this association.
Refer to Duffys post in the General section titled "How AF&GA responds to issues" for an explanation of the wording.
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Old 02-13-2008, 11:23 AM
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Copidosoma Copidosoma is offline
 
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As was stated elsewhere, they have to word these proposals in a positive tone. It is up to the membership (delegates) to vote it down. Problem is that herd mentality comes in and people say yes just so they don't have to be contrarian.
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Old 02-13-2008, 11:32 AM
Duk Dog Duk Dog is offline
 
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Here would be my comment on communication between AFGA and their members, as well as the various F&G clubs and their members in the province.

It is my personal feeling that information could be communicated more effectively to their membership. Just to use OS as an example there is a statement by AFGA regarding OS on the AFGA web site. That is all fine and dandy if people check the web site. There must be a way that when you get, or renew, a AFGA membership that you are given an option to supply your e-mail address and accept e-mails from AFGA (or your local F&G club) that would keep you posted on any upcoming events, or any news that may be of interest to the members. At the AGM the executive of the AFGA, as well as the executive of the various provincial F&G clubs have to vote based on the consensus of their membership. If the information is not communicated in a timely and effective manner to the entire membership how on earth can the executive know where the consensus is to base their vote upon?

Last edited by Duk Dog; 02-13-2008 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 02-13-2008, 11:38 AM
Bull Shooter Bull Shooter is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceba View Post
Watch out at the AFGA AGM. I just heard that resolution will be brought forward in support of OPEN SPACES.

BE IT RESOLVED THAT the Alberta Fish & Game Association is in support of the proposed Sustainable Resourse Developement's " OPEN SPACES ALBERTA"
pilot program as presented in it's preliminary form to this association.
I suspect that a few individuals from AFGA will come on here to tell us all that you propose a resolution in the affirmative so if it is defeated it sends a much clearer message. I don’t disagree.

I am, however, confused by the wording of this resolution, and I wonder why it was not phrased:

BE IT RESOLVED THAT the Alberta Fish & Game Association is in support of the proposed Sustainable Resource Development’s “OPEN SPACES ALBERTA” pilot program. (Period)

It appears to me, that any changes to the “preliminary form” on Open Spaces would require a new directive from the AFGA executive and/or membership. I think this confuses the issue and I would love to know why "as presented in it's preliminary form to this association" was included in the resolution. Regards, Mike
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  #7  
Old 02-13-2008, 01:08 PM
SNIPER
 
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What concerns me is the brief that accompanies the resolution.

Who presented it to the public and who discussed it?

I don't recall it ever being released to the public.
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  #8  
Old 02-13-2008, 01:13 PM
bruceba bruceba is offline
 
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The brief reads as follows;
As this program has been presented to the hunting public in Alberta and discussed in it's proposed form, there are two underlying initiatives- Recreational Access Management Program [ RAMP] and Hunting For Habitat [HFH] having potential for enhanced access oppertunities im WMU'S 300 & 108 for all Albertans.
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:18 PM
Bull Shooter Bull Shooter is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceba View Post
The brief reads as follows;
As this program has been presented to the hunting public in Alberta and discussed in it's proposed form, there are two underlying initiatives- Recreational Access Management Program [ RAMP] and Hunting For Habitat [HFH] having potential for enhanced access oppertunities im WMU'S 300 & 108 for all Albertans.
Further info:

Submitted by: AFGA

Drafted by: AFGA Executive
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  #10  
Old 02-13-2008, 02:08 PM
MathewsArcher MathewsArcher is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duffy4
You must understand that a resolution must be phrased in a posative way(by the bylaws governing resolutions). So you cannot write a resolution"BE IT RESOLVED THAT WE DO NOT WANT SOMETHING" you have to phrase it "BE IT RESOLVED THAT WE WANT..." Then if it is defeated it shows the negative reaction to the resolution.

Robin in Rocky


Where is this coming from? I can't find anything in Roberts Rules of Order that a Resolution must be written in the affirmative. In addition a quick search shows many UN and other resolutions written in the negative and quick search of Operative Clauses suggested for resolutions shows many in the negative form: condem, expresses its regret, fails to support or renews its appeal are among a few that could have been chosen to show how membership feels.

This resolutions does nothing but indicate that the executive is in favor of the pilot in my opinion.

Quote:
The Operative Clause
All operative clauses begin with "THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Alberta Urban Municipalities Association..." This is usually followed with either "requests" or "is opposed to". Operative clauses should specifically indicate the government to which the resolution is directed; for example, the Government of Alberta, the Federal Government, FCM. The operative clause is the call to action, the very reason the resolution was drafted in the first place. This is the most important part of the resolution and should be written very clearly. There should be no doubt as to what specific action is being requested.
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  #11  
Old 02-13-2008, 03:49 PM
sheephunter
 
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No one has ever accused me of being the brightest bulb in the pack but when speaking of AFGA resolutions and not UN resolutions, don't you think the AFGA bylaws would be a better place to start your search for rules than the UN or Roberts??? Seems simple enough to me.
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  #12  
Old 02-13-2008, 04:00 PM
sheephunter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rackmastr View Post
Duk and I had a good chat last night on the phone....

I think something different needs to be done with the AFGA and how they handle big issues like this. There needs to be more consensus from the members and have the majority of the members decide what they feel is worth fighting, and what issues feel need to be defended, supported, etc..

Seems only logical that the majority of the organization would have the say in which way to direct focus on big issues such as this. I dont know how they could accomplish this, but when new issues come into light, something needs to be done to educate the ENTIRE membership and decide a general direction or focus of the group, dependant on the majority of the members...
How are the votes that come out of resolutions not the will of the majority? It is delegates voting the will of their club that decides on resolutions and all clubs are represented.
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  #13  
Old 02-13-2008, 04:02 PM
sheephunter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPER View Post
What concerns me is the brief that accompanies the resolution.

Who presented it to the public and who discussed it?

I don't recall it ever being released to the public.

The AFGA does not represent the public...it represents its membership. Are you a member?
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  #14  
Old 02-13-2008, 04:05 PM
MathewsArcher MathewsArcher is offline
 
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You could be correct if the AFGA has written it directly into their bylaws. It has been my experience though that most organizations do not go into that much detail in there constitution and bylaws and generally observe Roberts Rules of Order. The UN was an example, as was the quote below that (of an Alberta Organizations resolution to Government) of a properly written resolution.

If the AFGA has something different in their bylaws than the majority of other organizations formed under the Alberta Societys Act I would find that interesting.

Resolution Number W-4-2007
BE IT RESOLVES THAT no non-resident alien be allowed to hunt consecutive
years for those species for which resident hunters must apply for draws annually to
gain priority.

This resolution from AFGA appears to be written in the negative. Shouldn't it be worded the opposite and then defeated given the premise previously suggested? Many previous resolutions are in the negative and either passed or defeated in the AFGA minutes.
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  #15  
Old 02-13-2008, 04:09 PM
sheephunter
 
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Hey, I'm noo expert on bylaws but I know if I'm looking for the instructions to put a bbq together, I don't start by looking at the instructions that came with the toilet. I'd think I'd do the same before I started arguing about AFGA bylaws...just a thought. For someone who admittedly knows nothing about AFGA bylaws, you sure have a lot to say about their proceedure...hmmmmmm I was just pointing out the painfully obvious....not commenting on anyone's bylaws.
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  #16  
Old 02-13-2008, 04:14 PM
MathewsArcher MathewsArcher is offline
 
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Well sheep, prove me wrong then.........

As I posted they have allowed resolutions in the negative to go forward on many other occassions (example given) but you choose to ignore that fact. hhhhmmmm.......


If its in the bylaws then they routinely violate them anyways so why stop with Open Spaces.
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  #17  
Old 02-13-2008, 04:17 PM
sheephunter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathewsArcher View Post
Well sheep, prove me wrong then.........

As I posted they have allowed resolutions in the negative to go forward on many other occasions (example given) but you choose to ignore that fact. hhhhmmmm.......
I'm not saying you are right or wrong so why would I want to prove anything....all I pointed out was the fact that If I wanted info about an organization's bylaws...I'd look at their bylaws and not those of the UN and Roberts. It seems pretty simple to me but obviously not you. If you have specific questions about the AFGA bylaws or other resolutions I'd suggest you pose them through your local club.

As I said I'm no expert on anyone's bylaws so far be it for me to comment on them....I typically like to have some foundation to my statements before I make them...obviously others don't. I was just suggesting that you consult the bylaws of the group you are talking about and not some other group that has no bearing on the topic at hand.

Last edited by sheephunter; 02-13-2008 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 02-13-2008, 04:18 PM
Duk Dog Duk Dog is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter View Post
How are the votes that come out of resolutions not the will of the majority? It is delegates voting the will of their club that decides on resolutions and all clubs are represented.
Agreed. My comment though was that I think that there could be better mechanisms of getting information out to the membership. (Whether it be direct AFGA members, or members via the associate F&G clubs.)

Personally I am a direct member of AFGA, as well as two other F&G clubs and I have not seen any of the resolutions that are up for vote. How can the F&G groups vote on behalf of their membership effectively if the information to be voted on is not shared with the membership? The executive may or may not have a clear picture of the consensus of the membership.
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  #19  
Old 02-13-2008, 04:22 PM
sheephunter
 
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I can't speak to your specific clubs Duk but typcally these resolutions are brought forward to the members at a local meeting and then the delegates vote for the will of the entire club.
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Old 02-13-2008, 04:24 PM
SNIPER
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duk Dog View Post

Personally I am a direct member of AFGA, as well as two other F&G clubs and I have not seen any of the resolutions that are up for vote. How can the F&G groups vote on behalf of their membership effectively if the information to be voted on is not shared with the membership? The executive may or may not have a clear picture of the consensus of the membership.
That is why I questioned the breif.


The brief reads as follows;
As this program has been presented to the hunting public in Alberta and discussed in it's proposed form, there are two underlying initiatives- Recreational Access Management Program [ RAMP] and Hunting For Habitat [HFH] having potential for enhanced access oppertunities im WMU'S 300 & 108 for all Albertans.
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  #21  
Old 02-13-2008, 04:25 PM
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Rockymtnx Rockymtnx is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duk Dog View Post
Personally I am a direct member of AFGA, as well as two other F&G clubs and I have not seen any of the resolutions that are up for vote. How can the F&G groups vote on behalf of their membership effectively if the information to be voted on is not shared with the membership?
All of the resolutions are sent out to the clubs. I know we receive our copy a few months in advance. I would bring it up with your club why the resolutions are not being shown to its members.
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  #22  
Old 02-13-2008, 04:26 PM
340wtby
 
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Some explanation on how it was presented to the hunting public would be nice.
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Old 02-13-2008, 04:29 PM
Duk Dog Duk Dog is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter View Post
I can't speak to your specific clubs Duk but typcally these resolutions are brought forward to the members at a local meeting and then the delegates vote for the will of the entire club.
I will look into it with the local F&G clubs I belong to and find out.

I guess then I will redirect my question for people that might just be a direct member of the AFGA, and not a member of a local F&G club. How does the AFGA inform their direct membership of the resolutions up for vote? And do it in advance of the AGM to allow for feedback (consensus) from their membership?
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  #24  
Old 02-13-2008, 04:29 PM
SNIPER
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockymtnx View Post
All of the resolutions are sent out to the clubs. I know we receive our copy a few months in advance. I would bring it up with your club why the resolutions are not being shown to its members.
Rocky, Our local club had a meeting to go over the resolutions.
How can the members make an informed decision on a resolution when no informaion on the subject has been made public?
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Old 02-13-2008, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 340wtby View Post
Some explanation on how it was presented to the hunting public would be nice.

Since the AFGA is Alberta's biggest group of hunters it was presented to them. The AFGA then informed its clubs.

Did you attend your local F&G meeting for January & February?
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  #26  
Old 02-13-2008, 04:35 PM
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Multipule Post
whoops!
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Last edited by Rockymtnx; 02-13-2008 at 04:54 PM.
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  #27  
Old 02-13-2008, 04:46 PM
SNIPER
 
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I am very good friends with the president of the local club. If it wasn't for the info that Bubba, Mav, Lurch. and the rest have presented on this board, that I have printed off and handed to him the local pres. would have been left in the dark. Communication is lacking, or the timing is not good.
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  #28  
Old 02-13-2008, 04:47 PM
340wtby
 
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According to the u of c website the working group was established in May 2007, an employee of the AFGA was apart of this working group and it took until Jan 12 2008 for them to put anything regarding the program on their website. Not until a week ago has this link provided any concrete info on what is involved in the program and there is still a substantial amount of info missing from the link. So I would have to say that it hasn't been presented to the hunting public.

And yes I have been to the local F&G meetings and we are strongly opposed to it.
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  #29  
Old 02-13-2008, 04:52 PM
sheephunter
 
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Quote:
And yes I have been to the local F&G meetings and we are strongly opposed to it.
So the process worked then...good to hear.
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  #30  
Old 02-13-2008, 04:58 PM
340wtby
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheephunter View Post
So the process worked then...good to hear.
Not quite.... None of the info was presented by AFGA. But by other members who did their own reasearch in AFGA's absence.
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