scary drop in F&W enforcement in Alberta

[Sundancefisher]

http://westerncanadiangamewarden.com/F2016Officers.html

[Newview01]

And people are wondering about the lack of enforcement?

[Scott N]

I've actually been checked more since last December than I have in the past couple of years combined... kind of odd considering that article. Once at Beaver Mines Lake in December, Two more times (different officers every time) at Beaver Mines Lake in January, Once on Spray Lake in January, and once in the Porcupine Hills while out late season cow elk hunting in January. All of my encounters where very professional, although one younger guy seemed to be a bit more overzealous than any of the others, and kept wanting to look through a cooler that I didn't have.

[CBintheNorth]

Very sad.
Time to start lobbying the current government to spend some of those exorbitant taxes on our favorite resource.
Better (far better) wages and better working conditions would be a start to getting more quality people to apply.
So much negligence regarding a resource that so many use and enjoy.
Absolutely shameful of our government. Past AND present.

[Big Grey Wolf]

What has changed is the Biologists have now taken over the trapline management. Thus they have freed up the F & W officers for field wildlife management.

[johnschmidt]

Why the decline? Are they not recruiting or is te budget too small?

[Scott N]

Originally Posted by johnschmidt

Why the decline? Are they not recruiting or is te budget too small?

The budget is never that high, and F&W have never been a top priority of any government ever since I can remember.

[Albertadiver]

Brutal.


So instead of supporting the F&W, giving them some resources to enforce what is already in place for laws, we just close areas to access instead and spend millions on the politics, studies, and sketchy science.

Shameful.

[79ford]

Isnt it better to have less government employees hassling law abiding citizens? I think most people are obeying laws so hassling people is silly. I know my woman and I have put back alot of pike and walleye that were just a centimeter short of regs.

Go to buck lake, every walleye is 48-49 cents...... obviously people are waiting for the 50's lol

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by 79ford

Isnt it better to have less government employees hassling law abiding citizens? I think most people are obeying laws so hassling people is silly. I know my woman and I have put back alot of pike and walleye that were just a centimeter short of regs.

Go to buck lake, every walleye is 48-49 cents...... obviously people are waiting for the 50's lol

Did you guys check them by TROLLING?

[Redfrog]

If you do away with hunting and fishing, there will be less need for F/W officers.

Simple, ideology based, finance management,

[79ford]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

Did you guys check them by TROLLING?

I would say most people are obeying laws, the few who dont care still dont care even if the government spends lots of money hassling the people who already obey the laws.

I dont see why people would be upset by less law enforcement in our lives.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by 79ford

I would say most people are obeying laws, the few who dont care still dont care even if the government spends lots of money hassling the people who already obey the laws.

I dont see why people would be upset by less law enforcement in our lives.

That's not right thinking. We are people. People are not to be trusted. What do people do when they are not being watched? No law enforcement leads to anarchy.

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by 79ford

I would say most people are obeying laws, the few who dont care still dont care even if the government spends lots of money hassling the people who already obey the laws.

I dont see why people would be upset by less law enforcement in our lives.

The idea is to catch the ones who don't care and to keep everyone honest.
From what I have seen, I wouldn't say "most people are obeying laws".

Besides, F&W officers do more than just catch poachers.....

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by 79ford

I would say most people are obeying laws, the few who dont care still dont care even if the government spends lots of money hassling the people who already obey the laws.

I dont see why people would be upset by less law enforcement in our lives.

I'd rather have more enforcement of existing laws, than less enforcement and outright closures of areas we previously had access to for recreational activities.

[Scott N]

Originally Posted by 79ford

Isnt it better to have less government employees hassling law abiding citizens? I think most people are obeying laws so hassling people is silly. I know my woman and I have put back alot of pike and walleye that were just a centimeter short of regs.

Go to buck lake, every walleye is 48-49 cents...... obviously people are waiting for the 50's lol

I don't look at it that way at all. Not only are they out there enforcing the laws, they are also educating the public, providing S&R when necessary, and so on. As we all know, not everyone is law abiding.

[Jjolg123]

I think there are a large percentage of people who are following the law, but i also think there's a number of those folk that think they might be following the law when they are not. Education is key and from my dealing with F&W thats a large part of what they are doing.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by 79ford

I would say most people are obeying laws, the few who dont care still dont care even if the government spends lots of money hassling the people who already obey the laws.

I dont see why people would be upset by less law enforcement in our lives.

In the absence of rules you have chaos. In the absence of enforcing those rules you have no rules. I always question the thoughts of those that think we need no rules. That we all do what we think is right.

Curious...since we had rules on catch limits for lakes and those lakes were still overfished due to fishing pressure. If there were no rules, no limits...would the fishing had been better or did the rules just need to be changed?

You are not enforcing the rules to stop those following the rules...you are enforcing the rules to stop those abusing them so that those following them can continue their enjoyment of the same.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

If you do away with hunting and fishing, there will be less need for F/W officers.

Simple, ideology based, finance management,

Now thats an interesting idea. No officers being hired, AEP Minister or rep does not attend AFGA meeting, Huge area's closed off or turned into parks (so I've been reading ), makes you wonder whats coming down the pipeline.

[srs123]

I hate to say this but I will
in the past 5 years i was stopped by F&W 3 times to check my license, 2 times at Gull Lake and one time at Allen Bill Pond (before the floods). I was never checked and never seen a F&W officer at any of the smaller lakes or ponds i have visited. which makes sense since they are more likely to catch someone doing something wrong when going to big lakes like Gull, Sylvan or other highly populated areas.

I have been hunting for three years and drove home with animals in the back every year except last year and i was never checked by any officers. as a matter of fact I hunted my first deer around ground prairie and packed the animal all the way to calgary and never got stopped. I of course had my animals properly tagged with proof of sex and hunted at legal times within season.

now we have 4.5 million people and less than 100 officers, which is a ratio of 1/45000. At these odds, anyone can go and shoot an animal in the woods without a tag and statistically they would never be caught.


in summary, poaching will be going up and up in the next few years

[does it ALL outdoors]

Originally Posted by 79ford

Isnt it better to have less government employees hassling law abiding citizens? I think most people are obeying laws so hassling people is silly.

I don't see it as a hassle at all, as long as your not dooing anything wrong.

I have been checked fishing MAYBE 3 times in the last 10 years, and 3 more times just last year alone. Once at wab on the ice and twice at NSR. Both NSR guys were younger and SUPER cool, one even pulled up a law chair and chatted with us for a good half hour, very pleasant experience. The wab guy, not so much. He is the one guy that will make people resent F&W. I called his supervisor but he could care less so I had to go to the top to let it be known his actions were unacceptable, the big boss couldn't agree more and righted the situation. I still respect them and will be pleasant in the future with any & all of them.

One of the NSR guys was telling me they caught someone keeping a Dino & how the courts threw the book at him, and rightfully so. I think they are a great use of resources when they are dooing that kind of enforcement. Hassling a guy for having a beer I find a waste of time but they are just enforcing the laws that are on the books, irrelevant of how draconian they are

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by srs123

I hate to say this but I will
in the past 5 years i was stopped by F&W 3 times to check my license, 2 times at Gull Lake and one time at Allen Bill Pond (before the floods). I was never checked and never seen a F&W officer at any of the smaller lakes or ponds i have visited. which makes sense since they are more likely to catch someone doing something wrong when going to big lakes like Gull, Sylvan or other highly populated areas.

I have been hunting for three years and drove home with animals in the back every year except last year and i was never checked by any officers. as a matter of fact I hunted my first deer around ground prairie and packed the animal all the way to calgary and never got stopped. I of course had my animals properly tagged with proof of sex and hunted at legal times within season.

now we have 4.5 million people and less than 100 officers, which is a ratio of 1/45000. At these odds, anyone can go and shoot an animal in the woods without a tag and statistically they would never be caught.


in summary, poaching will be going up and up in the next few years

The numbers are misleading. How many of the 4.5 million hunt/fish, etc.?

[Ranets]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

The numbers are misleading. How many of the 4.5 million hunt/fish, etc.?

Obviously as population increases the percentage of people who fish and hunt will increase, and anyone with half a brain realizes we need more F&W officers to attempt to keep the stupid and immoral/illegal at bay. Also it makes me proud and happy that my son and his best friend are going to college this fall to become F$W officers.

[wind drift]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Now thats an interesting idea. No officers being hired, AEP Minister or rep does not attend AFGA meeting, Huge area's closed off or turned into parks (so I've been reading ), makes you wonder whats coming down the pipeline.

Did you go to the meeting? Several FW staff were there. They even did a seminar for the youth. I thought it was a strong showing and I heard many positive comments.

[Jadham]

Originally Posted by Ranets

Obviously as population increases the percentage of people who fish and hunt will increase, and anyone with half a brain realizes we need more F&W officers to attempt to keep the stupid and immoral/illegal at bay. Also it makes me proud and happy that my son and his best friend are going to college this fall to become F$W officers.

The AO magazine lists the number of wildlife certificates purchased each year, which gives the number of hunters. The number of hunters has been fairly static and is not increasing at the same rate as the general population. Less people hunt now compared to the past, as a percentage of the population.

Havent seen angler numbers, maybe someone else knows the trend there.

Not saying we couldn't use more officers, but I think looking at ratio of officers to hunter/anglers is a more pertinent stat than to general population.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Jadham

The AO magazine lists the number of wildlife certificates purchased each year, which gives the number of hunters. The number of hunters has been fairly static and is not increasing at the same rate as the general population. Less people hunt now compared to the past, as a percentage of the population.

Havent seen angler numbers, maybe someone else knows the trend there.

Not saying we couldn't use more officers, but I think looking at ratio of officers to hunter/anglers is a more pertinent stat than to general population.

As population increases so does the encroachment of urban areas on wildlife habitat. Once upon a time F&W officers checked out hunters and fisherman. Now they spend half their time on wildlife complaints in urban areas, bear , coyote, cat, problems. add to that the huge increase in campground, random campers, quadder, boater complaints, etc, etc. When they do investigate and lay charges the legalwork process and paperwork is ridiculous these days. All this has been thrown on their plate over the years. There is not enough time in the day for them to actually get out and patrol to check hunters and fisherman. Yes we need more officers.

[lead chucker]

Why is the crowsnest pass and pincher creek not on the list? Are they closing?

[super7mag]

This last season our area went from 2 F&W guys down to one , in a good sized area 6-8 WMU's . Then the Veg CO had a heart attack in Oct or so. the AB Gov just thru this one guy to do both areas???? Like an impossible task to do a good job at, and very very demoralizing. No help, no support, no one cares.
I see it very similar to the crown prosecutor office being short handed! How you expect people to do a good job but they are beat down everyday by the work load.

[sjd]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

The numbers are misleading. How many of the 4.5 million hunt/fish, etc.?

Its not just hunting and fishing. Those F&W officers are expected to also enforce all other public land infractions - riding off designated trails, wheels in water, blowing up beaver dams, torching campers etc etc.

Its no wonder that the Castle has been such a gong show with 2 F&W in Blairmore for example.

Parks have their own enforcement staff, so it would be good to see those numbers too.

I think I read somewhere the Castle Parks would come with 40 new jobs. So its not "closure" its actually dedicated resources for management and enforcement. Would be interesting to see what proportion of those would be additional enforcement.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by lead chucker

Why is the crowsnest pass and pincher creek not on the list? Are they closing?

The district office is in Blairmore (which is Crowsnest Pass).