Contractor Labour cost dispute

[canuckistanian]

I'm currently getting a detached garage built and just received the invoice last night for the work done which only covers framing and sheathing.

Everything has been verbal for this job, no written contract. The contractor said the total labour cost would be $1800, the invoice I received has it listed at $2455 plus an additional $320 for a picker truck for lifting the roof up. I'm considering the $320 under labour since he had told me 3 weeks ago he was just going to get one of his workers to help lift the trusses up by hand and there was never any mention of a crane being used or additional costs. I think it's quite ridiculous for him to expect me to pay over 50% extra on labour and really just want to pay him what we had agreed on before this project began and tell him to go urinate up a rope. I'm just curious at this point if he has any ground to stand on as far as putting a lien on my title or if he tries to take me to court? He isn't even denying our prior agreement but he just keeps saying it was a lot bigger project then he anticipated. I just don't get it, if I tell someone I'm going to weld them up a fire pit for $300 and it takes me 3 times longer then I estimated I'm going to eat that cost because it was my mistake.

On a side note does anyone here do roofing for a living or can recommend someone in Calgary?

Thanks

[The Cook]

So you are going to rip off one tradesman and want recommendations for another tradesman. Good luck. Building a garage is a lot more work than a $300.00 fire pit but then again you probably work for free to feed your family.

[NCC]

If the guy quoted you $1800, you should have to pay $1800. It’s not your fault it took longer than he thought it would. Missing by $1000 on an $1800 bid is a rip off.

That said, it might not be worth having a builder’s lien placed against your property for a $1000. I would try to negotiate a price that you can both live with.

[Scottmisfits]

I think he should stand up to his original agreement. You aren’t asking for free like the Cook suggests, you just want was agreed upon. I had the same thing happen to me, I told someone a price to do a fence. It took me longer than expected but I didn’t ask for more, even though they knew it took longer as well. A price was agreed upon, a price was paid, that’s it.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by The Cook

So you are going to rip off one tradesman and want recommendations for another tradesman. Good luck. Building a garage is a lot more work than a $300.00 fire pit but then again you probably work for free to feed your family.

If buddy said it was going to cost $1,800 and he wants to pay him $1,800, how is that ripping someone off? I'd consider telling someone it was going to cost $1,800 and then charging them $2,455, ripping someone off.

[roughneckin]

If you decided on a price then that’s the price unless he discussed it with you. Especially when it comes to adding a crane for the trusses, that’s definitely something that would’ve been brought up at the beginning of most jobs I know of. That’s a large expense that was definitely unplanned for.
I’d talk to him again and see where you can find equal ground.

[Ken07AOVette]

First rule of getting someone to do work for you- GET IT ON PAPER.

2nd rule - GET IT ON PAPER

3rd rule - GET IT ON PAPER

If this is his first ever job his underbidding can be forgiven, work with him. If not he underbid on purpose to get the job then will threaten to place a lien or sue if you do not pay.

Did you get him to do ANYTHING extra above and beyond the original job scope?

Little more info is needed. I deal with this all the time.

[Jerry D]

Should get it in writing.

Hard to do with cash deals as most don't want paper trails.

[MrPants]

Meet halfway on the labour and consider it a lesson for both parties. Had you had a written contact for the original amount he would be out money. He doesn’t get his ~$2800 in full because he under estimated the job. Pay $2300 and be done with him. He could put a lien on the house and that is simply a pain.

Always get a written quote and at the very least write up a simple contract.

[Jerry D]

Contracting should say. We will try to lift them up... if we can't it will be an extra $$ to get a crane in. but any experienced guy wouldnt risk their life doing that depending on size.. Most would be upfront about it and not even take the job if a guy would be to cheap to pay for a crane.

That being said. Should stick to original cost. To be that far off quote shows lack of experience or missed something.

He should chalk it up as a learning experience.

A lot of guys will want payment over certain stages.

[Bigwoodsman]

Split the difference with him. Get all future trades to put their quote in writing.

My dad always said the invoice comes in writing and so must the quote.

BW

[canuckistanian]

Originally Posted by The Cook

So you are going to rip off one tradesman and want recommendations for another tradesman. Good luck. Building a garage is a lot more work than a $300.00 fire pit but then again you probably work for free to feed your family.

Lol maybe you need to re-read my post? Me wanting to pay him exactly what was agreed upon is ripping him off? Whoever I hire to shingle my garage will get exactly what we mutually agree on, nothing less.

[pikergolf]

Is this one of those famous under the table deals?

[mattthegorby]

No contract makes it a shared responsibility in my mind. Working with a contractor that doesn't give written quotes is a risk that can pay off with a lower price as he is likely just charging wages, but can also bite you in the butt.

I would seek a compromise. Maybe stay firm at 1800 for labor, but offer to pay for the truck. Unless he can justify the added labour expense due to some unforseen complication, but I do not think framing and sheathing a new garage is that hard an estimate to do.

(edit: Also consider if labour costs could have been impacted by logistics such as material availability for example. A morning wasted going to pick up materials that were not on site can impact the price quite a bit on a job like this when no money is being made on materials)

[canuckistanian]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

First rule of getting someone to do work for you- GET IT ON PAPER.

2nd rule - GET IT ON PAPER

3rd rule - GET IT ON PAPER

If this is his first ever job his underbidding can be forgiven, work with him. If not he underbid on purpose to get the job then will threaten to place a lien or sue if you do not pay.

Did you get him to do ANYTHING extra above and beyond the original job scope?

Little more info is needed. I deal with this all the time.

He is new to contracting on his own, although I don't see why I necessarily should be paying for his mistakes. I have a budget I need to stick To and this is a big unexpected cost. To me that shows a lack of responsibility on his part and I personally would never expect someone to have to eat the cost of my poor labour estimation.

No he hasn't done anything extra other then leave some of his own personal garbage on my property. He still has 2 walls left to tyvek and install the runners for the overhead door. Still need to get building inspection done as well and am worried that if there are any issues to fix after I've paid him I'll never hear from him again. Some guys at work were saying you're allowed to hold back a certain percentage and was hoping you would chime in Ken.

[Talking moose]

Both of you were irresponsible. A handshake doesn’t work like it did 40 years ago. By the sounds of it he’s not really trying to rip you off. Sounds like lack of experience on the quote is the monster here. That said, do you believe a different contractor could of done the same job on that same quote? If not maybe chalk it up to bad on your part for no paper trail and bad on his part for lack of experience. Meet halfway with the rookie. But if you honestly think someone else would of been able to go it for 1800, don’t meet him halfway.

[Ken07AOVette]

PM me your phone #

[Okotok]

Originally Posted by canuckistanian

He is new to contracting on his own, although I don't see why I necessarily should be paying for his mistakes. I have a budget I need to stick To and this is a big unexpected cost. To me that shows a lack of responsibility on his part and I personally would never expect someone to have to eat the cost of my poor labour estimation.

No he hasn't done anything extra other then leave some of his own personal garbage on my property. He still has 2 walls left to tyvek and install the runners for the overhead door. Still need to get building inspection done as well and am worried that if there are any issues to fix after I've paid him I'll never hear from him again. Some guys at work were saying you're allowed to hold back a certain percentage and was hoping you would chime in Ken.

Builders Lien act is 10% for 30 days (more commonly 45 days) for holdback. That's when you get him to sign a statutory declaration prior to releasing the holdback. Assuming everything is above board. Cash deals are trickier and him placing a lien could affect his status with the CRA as well if he's doing it under the table so would give him pause for thought.

[Grizzly Adams]

Never needed a picker on a garage yet. Quoted price is quoted price. If the guy is new at this, you might have other issues as well.

Grizz

[Wrongside]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

First rule of getting someone to do work for you- GET IT ON PAPER.

2nd rule - GET IT ON PAPER

3rd rule - GET IT ON PAPER

Exactly. Silly not to in this day and age. Protects both parties.

[Supergrit]

Paper rule is the way to go for sure a job like that being 10 percent over is reasonable but the amount he his over is a bit rediculous he should take 2200 and learn to make his bids better.

[heretohunt]

There is a certain amount of responsibility on both sides. Did you get other quotes? What is his quite a bit lower than the other ones? In my opinion he should probably stick to the original price. That being said was the original price in line with the market?

[Dewey Cox]

What constitutes a verbal quote?
Did you run in to him on the street one day and say "what will this cost?" And he said "ummm, like 1800?"
If it was a serious quote, it should have been on paper. (Or email. Who uses paper anymore?)

[ssyd]

Originally Posted by NCC

If the guy quoted you $1800, you should have to pay $1800. It’s not your fault it took longer than he thought it would. Missing by $1000 on an $1800 bid is a rip off.

That said, it might not be worth having a builder’s lien placed against your property for a $1000. I would try to negotiate a price that you can both live with.

I wish my dentist honoured his quotes.

[ssyd]

Originally Posted by MrPants

Meet halfway on the labour and consider it a lesson for both parties. Had you had a written contact for the original amount he would be out money. He doesn’t get his ~$2800 in full because he under estimated the job. Pay $2300 and be done with him. He could put a lien on the house and that is simply a pain.

Always get a written quote and at the very least write up a simple contract.

And get this agreement on paper so he doesn't just go and say you shorted him and place the lien any way.

[tri777]

This gets me wondering, if the contractor quoted
canuckistanian via a text response, would that suffice as a contract?

[expedition]

People get too emotional. Pre write a cheque for what you think is fair in the memo section write for full payment to frame to lock up . If he accept done deal . If not tell him you look forward to telling a judge your side of the story . If he leans your house he has 4 months to initiate a suit or the lean comes off . Don't get emotional and don't raise your voice. Explain you ask for a price for a reason . Judges understand this is not uncommon. They will be unbiased. 1800 is fair .

[expedition]

Originally Posted by The Cook

So you are going to rip off one tradesman and want recommendations for another tradesman. Good luck. Building a garage is a lot more work than a $300.00 fire pit but then again you probably work for free to feed your family.

You're out to lunch . Nothing wrong with expecting one to stick to a quote.

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by canuckistanian

I'm currently getting a detached garage built and just received the invoice last night for the work done which only covers framing and sheathing.

Everything has been verbal for this job, no written contract. The contractor said the total labour cost would be $1800, the invoice I received has it listed at $2455 plus an additional $320 for a picker truck for lifting the roof up. I'm considering the $320 under labour since he had told me 3 weeks ago he was just going to get one of his workers to help lift the trusses up by hand and there was never any mention of a crane being used or additional costs. I think it's quite ridiculous for him to expect me to pay over 50% extra on labour and really just want to pay him what we had agreed on before this project began and tell him to go urinate up a rope. I'm just curious at this point if he has any ground to stand on as far as putting a lien on my title or if he tries to take me to court? He isn't even denying our prior agreement but he just keeps saying it was a lot bigger project then he anticipated. I just don't get it, if I tell someone I'm going to weld them up a fire pit for $300 and it takes me 3 times longer then I estimated I'm going to eat that cost because it was my mistake.

On a side note does anyone here do roofing for a living or can recommend someone in Calgary?

Thanks

What size was the garage? Roof pitch? Wall height? Any extras?
My company frames hundreds of houses and garages annually. Don’t be worried about the lien. You can simply remove it by paying it into the courts. Before doing that, the lien will expire in 180 days if he does not file for loss pending. It would be a waste of his time to lien. You hold all the cards. If $1800 was agreed on I wouldn’t pay a single penny more. Liens are next to useless under around $10k if ou know how the system works. Pm if you wanna chat further.

[klr4evr]

Originally Posted by tri777

This gets me wondering, if the contractor quoted
canuckistanian via a text response, would that suffice as a contract?

Well considering Trump won an election on Hilary's text messages I'd say - yes.