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  #61  
Old 12-02-2018, 10:56 AM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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I agree with the idea that firearm technology has come along ways,,, better stock designs, a choice of different barrels, and all the recoil accessories to choose from.

One would think that lots of shooters take advantage of when they can,,, I know I did.

Another thing that aids us along the way is the reloading data,,, we can load hot for hunting,,, or kool things down in the off season,,, that way it saves on barrel wear and human parts. Ha.

Lots of options to choose from fore sure.

Find something that works and get at it, that's what really counts,,, big guns / small guns,,, and everything in-between.

Good times happen to people that find what there looking for.

Today is -10c hunting then plinking day,,, a little bit of everything to make the outting worth its while
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  #62  
Old 12-02-2018, 11:14 AM
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I agree with the idea that firearm technology has come along ways,,, better stock designs, a choice of different barrels, and all the recoil accessories to choose from.

One would think that lots of shooters take advantage of when they can,,, I know I did.

Another thing that aids us along the way is the reloading data,,, we can load hot for hunting,,, or kool things down in the off season,,, that way it saves on barrel wear and human parts. Ha.

Lots of options to choose from fore sure.

Find something that works and get at it, that's what really counts,,, big guns / small guns,,, and everything in-between.

Good times happen to people that find what there looking for.

Today is -10c hunting then plinking day,,, a little bit of everything to make the outting worth its while
In many respects stock design has gone backwards. There were stock makers over a century ago that could teach a thing or two to some stock designers today.
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  #63  
Old 12-02-2018, 01:12 PM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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Generic Factory stocks .. designed to fit everyone from 6'4 /240 lbs to 5'8 /145 lb. and rifle rifles balanced the same way. Before neutering the cartridge with reduced loads, it might be good to have the stock fit and gun weight tailored to the cartridge and to your dimensions. A micro-lite rifle and a medium caliber rifle is a recipe for total shooting discomfort for most if left to its own. Its not as expensive to do the mods as one might think.
Pretty easy to see why the minis are so popular these days.
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  #64  
Old 12-02-2018, 01:55 PM
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Unless someone thinks I’m referring to reduced loads, I’m referring to reduced cartridges.
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  #65  
Old 12-02-2018, 03:00 PM
Oldan Grumpi Oldan Grumpi is offline
 
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I got to thinking a bit more about this issue of recoil, and another thing came to mind.

I see a lot of fellows at the range who seldom shoot, except maybe once or twice before hunting season. They come to the range and hunker down all wrong, with the bench set way too low, and them leaning into the rifle at a low angle and their eyeball half an inch from the scope. Then they prop both elbows on the bench, and hold the rifle as if it was made out of marshmallows. That's just asking to get kicked! (Then they rest the barrel on the bags instead of the forearm and wonder why they can't get a group, but that's another story!)

Then they get hammered a few times from this bad posture, and by that time they have the flinch from hell, and they think it's the rifles fault. The stocks on hunting rifles are designed based on shooting from a standing position, with the rifle and your body at 90 degrees from each other. The flex allowed by your shoulder and upper body will absorb a whole lot of recoil, relatively painlessly.

Damn kids nowadays. Sit up straight! Do I have to tell you everything?

Last edited by Oldan Grumpi; 12-02-2018 at 03:10 PM.
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  #66  
Old 12-02-2018, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Don_Parsons View Post
I agree with the idea that firearm technology has come along ways,,, better stock designs, a choice of different barrels, and all the recoil accessories to choose from.

One would think that lots of shooters take advantage of when they can,,, I know I did.

Another thing that aids us along the way is the reloading data,,, we can load hot for hunting,,, or kool things down in the off season,,, that way it saves on barrel wear and human parts. Ha.

Lots of options to choose from fore sure.

Find something that works and get at it, that's what really counts,,, big guns / small guns,,, and everything in-between.

Good times happen to people that find what there looking for.

Today is -10c hunting then plinking day,,, a little bit of everything to make the outting worth its while
I see big improvements in bullet design and improvements in selection options but not a lot in the rifles themselves.

I do see some improvements in the small game calibers, both in selection options and in performance. But little in the bog game category.

Sure there are a lot more calibers available in that class now, but I see minimal improvement in performance among them.
I don't call it an improvement when a new cartridge is so painful to shoot that it requires recoil reduction just to use it.

Of course recoil is indeed a function of other then case capacity or case design.

I agree with those who say that stock fit and rifle weight play a big role in felt recoil. And that there has been ground lost in those categories.

Too many manufacturers catering to novices chasing the new shiny.
Every company is pushing at least one new short or super short magnum mountain rifle. That's a recipe for bone rattling kick.

Company just arrive so I'll have to leave it at that
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  #67  
Old 12-02-2018, 03:54 PM
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I got to thinking a bit more about this issue of recoil, and another thing came to mind.

I see a lot of fellows at the range who seldom shoot, except maybe once or twice before hunting season. They come to the range and hunker down all wrong, with the bench set way too low, and them leaning into the rifle at a low angle and their eyeball half an inch from the scope. Then they prop both elbows on the bench, and hold the rifle as if it was made out of marshmallows. That's just asking to get kicked! (Then they rest the barrel on the bags instead of the forearm and wonder why they can't get a group, but that's another story!)

Then they get hammered a few times from this bad posture, and by that time they have the flinch from hell, and they think it's the rifles fault. The stocks on hunting rifles are designed based on shooting from a standing position, with the rifle and your body at 90 degrees from each other. The flex allowed by your shoulder and upper body will absorb a whole lot of recoil, relatively painlessly.

Damn kids nowadays. Sit up straight! Do I have to tell you everything?
I find it’s the guys who only shoot 50-100 rounds a year say recoil is not an issue for them. If I only shot 50-100 rounds a year I would agree with them. Often when I set out for a weekend of shooting it’s a couple hundred, sometimes in a day depending on how many rifles I bring.

Here’s my take on the situation. Start out with a cartridge in the 08 case size, 243, 6mm, 6.5 creedmoor, 7-08, 308 type rifle and learn how to shoot. Once you’ve learned how to shoot move up but stay within your comfort level to keep up accuracy.

Biggest misconception in Hunting is that you need a magnum rifle to make a clean kill, that simply is not true. Accuracy kills, flinching won’t help with accuracy.
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  #68  
Old 12-02-2018, 04:13 PM
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I was taught with the “ accuracy first “ philosophy , coached by two true proffesional coaches , and never have hunted with the big magnums and bullets although I have shot lots of them at the range while tuning or hand loading for them .

Never had any issues winning matches or killing animals cleanly with any cartridges and braked rifles I chose to hunt with , so I see no need to change anything that has worked for me for well over 50 years.
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  #69  
Old 12-02-2018, 04:20 PM
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I find it’s the guys who only shoot 50-100 rounds a year say recoil is not an issue for them. If I only shot 50-100 rounds a year I would agree with them. Often when I set out for a weekend of shooting it’s a couple hundred, sometimes in a day depending on how many rifles I bring.

Here’s my take on the situation. Start out with a cartridge in the 08 case size, 243, 6mm, 6.5 creedmoor, 7-08, 308 type rifle and learn how to shoot. Once you’ve learned how to shoot move up but stay within your comfort level to keep up accuracy.

Biggest misconception in Hunting is that you need a magnum rifle to make a clean kill, that simply is not true. Accuracy kills, flinching won’t help with accuracy.
I never shoot 200 or even 100 rounds of target at a single sitting., but I have been known to be at the range three times in a day for 12-20 rounds each time, during load development. Once I have a load developed, I generally shoot a big game rifle 8-10 tomes per year, usually 9-12 rounds per trip. It does help to live 10 minutes from a range. If I fire 200 rounds out of a rifle in one sitting, it is while shooting ground squirrels, with a .17 caliber rimfire or my .17 hornet.
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  #70  
Old 12-02-2018, 04:35 PM
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Start watching at 3:50.

https://youtu.be/27pSEHQbqtM
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  #71  
Old 12-02-2018, 04:53 PM
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Start watching at 3:50.

https://youtu.be/27pSEHQbqtM
Great video. For yours I've been saying smaller can be better, now here a n expert is saying it too. And I suspect most true experts would agree.
Not to say that I'm an expert. Far from it. Just an old guy that learned the hard way.
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  #72  
Old 12-02-2018, 05:16 PM
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I never shoot 200 or even 100 rounds of target at a single sitting., but I have been known to be at the range three times in a day for 12-20 rounds each time, during load development. Once I have a load developed, I generally shoot a big game rifle 8-10 tomes per year, usually 9-12 rounds per trip. It does help to live 10 minutes from a range. If I fire 200 rounds out of a rifle in one sitting, it is while shooting ground squirrels, with a .17 caliber rimfire or my .17 hornet.
I go through a few rifles a year, I’ll load a couple hundred rounds for about 4 or 5 rifles then head out to my cabin and shoot all day long. I don’t shoot 200 rounds out of one rifle in one sitting. Once I have an accurate load worked up then I take it to the pit for some long range shooting.
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  #73  
Old 12-02-2018, 06:52 PM
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Recoil inherent too the cartridge is only one part of the equation, and in my opinion, maybe less important than fit in many cases.

I'd rather shoot my 300 WBY or my Dad's 375 H&H (both unbraked) all day long rather than shooting a 270 or 30-06 in a Tikka Lite. Those rifles bite. Venomous little guns.

Having said that, I agree many of us shoot too much cartridge and like many have said, take the rifle you are confident with and you will actually put them down faster.
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  #74  
Old 12-02-2018, 08:05 PM
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So let’s take something that will not cause permanent damage and turn it into something that will. Congratulations.

Shoot something with less bullet weight and powder behind it. A novel concept I know. But it works.
Once again, delivery Charlie, delivery
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  #75  
Old 12-02-2018, 08:21 PM
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Start watching at 3:50.

https://youtu.be/27pSEHQbqtM
Great video
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  #76  
Old 12-02-2018, 08:45 PM
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start watching at 3:50.

https://youtu.be/27psehqbqtm
👍
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  #77  
Old 12-02-2018, 08:46 PM
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Once again, delivery Charlie, delivery
What are you? The feelings police? And quit calling me Charlie.
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  #78  
Old 12-02-2018, 08:47 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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I couldn't agree with you more on that Chuck.

I just about jumped into Match shooting with a custom Bell / Carlson stock,,, don't get me wrong,,, they make a nice A series. Defiantly on the heavy side if a person goes that route.

Log Comb at the rear with a limited length in the fore-end to place the Remple rest away from the trigger.

Then I shot a Custom RG stock from Cris in Calgary,,, yes,,, $$$,,, seems like alot of coin,,, what a dream to work with. Kinda like a land canon. LOL

I like custom stocks, some folks don't have this option, match grade stuff involves coin.

I switch stocks back and forth "once" in a while, it helps remind me of why I picked a few different stock designs. Big fan of wood.

A costume barrle is X amount of funds,,, so I normally double those costs for a nice chunk of wood,,, then add a soft wide body pad... Oh Yha...

The crisp lite Jewell trigger makes it happen.

I can see the shot right now with the land canon planted,,, a quick bubble test, quick glance at the shifting winds,,, remain calm and relaxed,,, bring the cross hairs form bottom up,,, the count down is closing in on 2 seconds,,, my eye takes over.

My cheek weld and left hand only steer the ship,,, "hopefully" the trigger goes off clean. Hopefully under the 3 second mark.

Did I mention I'm a South-paw working off of right-hand rocks. Ha. Dam mother nature !!!

I was hounered to watch a few of the RMH shooters practic this before going to Southern Alberta for the Iron Silhouettes match down there,,, I can see my self giving their sport a try... Its a little bit different then our F Class stuff.

It's a family shooting thing,,, even the gals take part.

Like I said in my above post, there are 1000's of options,,, big / small / medium size guns,,, and the frugal 22 rimfire.

Nothing like bring the whole family into the sport,,, it helps all of us like minded folks.

Ye Ha

Last edited by Don_Parsons; 12-02-2018 at 08:54 PM.
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  #79  
Old 12-02-2018, 09:17 PM
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Shooting an 8-10lb gun takes away most of the recoil. And is easier to shoot accurately compared to something lighter.
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Old 12-02-2018, 09:43 PM
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Shooting an 8-10lb gun takes away most of the recoil. And is easier to shoot accurately compared to something lighter.
I am basically a still hunter and stalker so a 10 pound rifle is out of the question for me
That and the majority of my center fire match rifle competitions of the years prohibited the use of brakes anyway
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Old 12-02-2018, 10:10 PM
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What are you? The feelings police? And quit calling me Charlie.
Charlie, buddy, ya gotta relax a bit, its tough to take you serious when you got such a bad disposition, but that was a good video
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  #82  
Old 12-02-2018, 10:22 PM
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So let’s take something that will not cause permanent damage and turn it into something that will. Congratulations.

Shoot something with less bullet weight and powder behind it. A novel concept I know. But it works.
If your afraid of getting hurt it can happen in many ways,if you think your going to injure your self don't pick it up,plain and simple.I am not good with heights so I avoid cliffs and places I may fall.The only thing on this planet that I have no control over Chuck is my creator and I have no fear of him one bit,the rest is all good to go,but I know my limitations trust me there.


If my mag explodes and I die then it was meant to be,like I said before no one is going to like the same things ido,so enjoy your deal. I went through this large and small cartridge stuff 35 years ago and I wanted to be good with a mag when I guided for backup,thick bush they get wounded and swim or take of in into cut outs and pop out 900 yards away,that animal is hurt so I want to anchor him anyway possible or I have a night mare on my hands.

THIS only happened 3 times a green hunter did this to me and all 3 times I was very lucky.So there 's different tools for different situations that occur that you don't expect. If a guest wounds a moose 150 yards from water and it takes me a few minutes to figure that's the way it went he's already swam a 1000 plus and he's 100 yards from the far shore I need to drop him as he steps out of that lake and hits heavy timber and never to be seen again,so I pick my tools for breaken bones,backs or busten even a hip,as long as it stop him.Lung shots are the best but wounded game mostly only heads the other way.

So I got use to using that tool which was 7mm stw and 300 win and it's never let me down so no kid from gunwerks is changing my mind.

All the power to you and teaching your kids well in hunting shooting and being the best parent you can be,that I respect very much cause I never had that deal,but I am not your child and have always took my own path,so I will shoot what i wish and after 50 years of shooting so far so good.

I like smaller stuff and also enjoy bigger cartridges along with well made rifles,i can feel pain and if hurts I stop right away.
If something is hurting you , stop right away and when you start as a young shooter start small and see what you can use that gives you proper shot placement ever time,then move up if you wish,if not it's all cool and pick your tool.

Last edited by JD848; 12-02-2018 at 10:38 PM.
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  #83  
Old 12-02-2018, 10:32 PM
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If your afraid of getting hurt it can happen in many ways,if you think your going to injure your self don't pick it up,plain and simple.I am not good with heights so I avoid cliffs and places I may fall.The only thing on this planet that I have no control over Chuck is my creator and I have no fear of him one bit,the rest is all good to go,but I know my limitations trust me there.


If my mag explodes and I die then it was meant to be,like I said before no one is going to like the same things ido,so enjoy your deal. I went through this large and small cartridge stuff 35 years ago and I wanted to be good with a mag when I guided for backup,thick bush they get wounded and swim or take of in into cut outs and pop out 900 yards away,that animal is hurt so I want to anchor him anyway possible or I have a night mare on my hands.

THIS only happened 3 times a green hunter did this to me and all 3 times I was very lucky.So there 's different tools for different situations that occur that you don't expect. If a guest wounds a moose 150 yards from water and it takes me a few minutes to figure that's the way it went he's already swam a 1000 plus and he's 100 yards from the shore I need to drop him as he steps out of that lake and hits heavy timber and never to be seen again,so I pick my tools for breaken bones,backs or busten even a hip,as long as it stop him.Lung shots are the best but wounded game mostly only heads the other way.

So I got use to using that tool which was 7mm stw and 300 win and it's never let me down so no kid from gunwerks is changing my mind.

All the power to you and teaching your kids well in hunting shooting and being the best parent you can be,that I respect very much cause I never had that deal,but I am not your child and have always took my own path,so I will shoot what i wish and after 50 years of shooting so far so good.

I like smaller stuff and also enjoy bigger cartridges along with well made rifles,i can feel pain and if hurts I stop right away.
If something is hurting you , stop right away and when you start as a young shooter start small and see what you can use that gives you proper shot placement ever time,then move up if you wish,if not it's all cool and pick your tool.
I’m talking about your ears. You know. Adding a break. Permanent damage to your hearing. That is not subjective.
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  #84  
Old 12-02-2018, 10:50 PM
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I’m talking about your ears. You know. Adding a break. Permanent damage to your hearing.
I had a friend by a Tikka T3 superlite in 300wsm last spring, he brought it over to sight in. After the first couple times shooting he decided he wanted a brake on it. He came back the third time with the brake installed, shot it off the bench and loved it.

Fast forward to this fall. I told him if he’s going to shoot that rifle with the brake on that he had better pack ear protection. “Naw, I won’t even notice the bang while I’m hunting......”

Well the moose ran out, the gun went boom.... boom.... boom.

Once we met up he unknowingly yelled “My ears are eff’d up! The first shot really hurt but the next two weren’t so bad”

His hearing was shot for two days then slowly started to recover. I’ll take recoil over hearing loss any day of the week.
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Old 12-02-2018, 10:52 PM
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I’m talking about your ears. You know. Adding a break. Permanent damage to your hearing. That is not subjective.
I know what your talking about,but a 6.5 beside a building or flat rock face ten feet away will hurt,so I wear hearing protect of different types for testing my rifles and hunting,go stand besides a 223 with no hearing protection ,you will damage your hearing for life a 22 mag shot by your head will cause damage.

If your not holding your rifle right you can get hurt just like wipe lash or lose and eye if you don't know what your doing.So I wear in the bush and while shooting the best clear safety glasses I can buy,you get a branch stuck in your eve ball,any recoil will seem mild,it hurts trust me I know all about it.

So break or no break always wear hearing protection,the real good hunting stuff costs more money,but way less than years of suffering.
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Old 12-02-2018, 11:04 PM
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I had a friend by a Tikka T3 superlite in 300wsm last spring, he brought it over to sight in. After the first couple times shooting he decided he wanted a brake on it. He came back the third time with the brake installed, shot it off the bench and loved it.

Fast forward to this fall. I told him if he’s going to shoot that rifle with the brake on that he had better pack ear protection. “Naw, I won’t even notice the bang while I’m hunting......”

Well the moose ran out, the gun went boom.... boom.... boom.

Once we met up he unknowingly yelled “My ears are eff’d up! The first shot really hurt but the next two weren’t so bad”

His hearing was shot for two days then slowly started to recover. I’ll take recoil over hearing loss any day of the week.
When I had my accident a while back the air bag blew up and for a minute or two my head was pounded on the left side damaging one ear very badly,i smashed the main nerve on the same side which is hocked up to the ear and i need major surgery ,my whole jaw is like I just came out of the dentist it feels frozen for the last 24 months,but nothing worst than a bad ear,so folks protect your hearing at al costs.
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Old 12-02-2018, 11:21 PM
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If a guest wounds a moose 150 yards from water and it takes me a few minutes to figure that's the way it went he's already swam a 1000 plus and he's 100 yards from the far shore I need to drop him as he steps out of that lake and hits heavy timber and never to be seen again,so I pick my tools for breaken bones,backs or busten even a hip,as long as it stop him.Lung shots are the best but wounded game mostly only heads the other way.
A bit of friendly advice, it might be a good idea to check the law on what you suggest in this statement.

When I was a guide it was illegal for me to hunt while with a client and for longer then I can remember it has been illegal to shoot at an animal you don't have a tag for and one you don't intend to tag with you own tag.
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Old 12-03-2018, 12:18 AM
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A bit of friendly advice, it might be a good idea to check the law on what you suggest in this statement.

When I was a guide it was illegal for me to hunt while with a client and for longer then I can remember it has been illegal to shoot at an animal you don't have a tag for and one you don't intend to tag with you own tag.
That was decades ago and we all had tags in our pockets specially me,i never used mine till guiding season was all over or I had to shot for humane reasons ,so no worries about that my friend.Nothing on this site would surprise me so I am well aware of my statements.If I used my tag then only he done the shooting.

I have talked to FW about this many a times,plus I know what friendly advice is and I read it loud and clear specially the way you high lighted it triple thick.Putting an injured animal down in the bush from accidents by trucks or bullets is only humane.I know who reads these sites so it's nothing for you to worry about.
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Old 12-03-2018, 01:19 AM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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Not everyone who choses a med bore or a magnum as a hunting cartridge has chosen it as a practice rifle. Usually they have a smaller caliber for practice sessions. Why would anyone do otherwise ? Each have their place and a heavy recoiling hunting rifle is not the best choice for extended practice . Trigger time is trigger time and good shooting form is invaluable. Nothing will screw up good form quicker than an uncomfortable rifle... on the bench or in the field.
Nothing spooky about the larger calibers when the're used as intended.

Fit Form & Fire.
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  #90  
Old 12-03-2018, 04:21 AM
JD848 JD848 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KegRiver View Post
A bit of friendly advice, it might be a good idea to check the law on what you suggest in this statement.

When I was a guide it was illegal for me to hunt while with a client and for longer then I can remember it has been illegal to shoot at an animal you don't have a tag for and one you don't intend to tag with you own tag.
Guys like you enjoy getting your two bit comments in about assuming something you have no clue about.,my client or guest were friend who asked me to take them hunting with us both having tags or only one,if my tags is used I can shot my friends bull if he is with me back then and is still the same today.These were all local res,but I figured to leave that out,just for the heck of it.
The 3 friends who were green horns lived in my home town and wanted a moose,so they wounded them and i finished the job off,party hunting you may shoot his moose as long as he is in shouting distance of me and I can shoot his bull specially if it is wounded,so where did you assume I was with an outfitter or private resort camp which I never mention at all with money being a part of it.

Any one I invited to my hunting camp in those days were guest or business clients like my john deer sales men from my home town who had a tag and never shot a moose and he hammered a big one. I took friends this summer on guided fishing trips,we all fished and enjoyed our days together,i got paid with a hug.Maybe you should call RCA.

So I responded to the first post and waited to tell you this,but you as a good honest friend which had already taken you stab without any response so I waited and nothing more.

I wrote this way hoping some other clown popped out,but the circus is wide on this forum with a few clowns who assume things they know nothing about,except shooting there rifles who hurt them for life and blame there poor judgement on other reason like it took me a long time to realize my bad habits.Those are your bad habits and yours alone,so own up for not knowing better and stop passing the buck to others who you have no business telling them what they need for a rifle.

So when I finish helping guide these friends I went hunting solo for the rest of my life .If these are insults then half the forum should be banned.Either way this is my last post so everyone take care.

Cheers JD
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