Pronghorn questions

[Arachnodisiac]

Hey all

Looking for some background.
After the killing winter of 2010, pronghorn allocations were reduced, but perhaps not for outfitters? I’m looking for an experienced pronghorn hunter to talk to about those changes, and I’d love to speak to an outfitter as well.
On or off the record works. General comments on the pronghorn hunt and population rebound welcome.
Message me! Better yet, email me directly at sherimonk@gmail.com
This is for an article in Alberta Outdoorsman Magazine.

[marky_mark]

Winter of 2017/18 was hard on them
Lots of snow at the end of the year
Pronghorn management in the province is terrible
Even after the die off they never adjusted tags
I’m not sure who these biologists are trying to fool. I doubt many leave the office
The govt needs to decide what is more important, protecting and sustainability for all animals or satisfying certain special interest groups that aren’t regulated

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Winter of 2017/18 was hard on them
Lots of snow at the end of the year
Pronghorn management in the province is terrible
Even after the die off they never adjusted tags
I’m not sure who these biologists are trying to fool. I doubt many leave the office
The govt needs to decide what is more important, protecting and sustainability for all animals or satisfying certain special interest groups that aren’t regulated

What are the special interest groups that aren't regulated?

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Winter of 2017/18 was hard on them
Lots of snow at the end of the year
Pronghorn management in the province is terrible
Even after the die off they never adjusted tags
I’m not sure who these biologists are trying to fool. I doubt many leave the office
The govt needs to decide what is more important, protecting and sustainability for all animals or satisfying certain special interest groups that aren’t regulated

I’m pretty sure they did adjust tags. For example I noticed they only gave out 50 tags in 102/118 last year.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

I’m pretty sure they did adjust tags. For example I noticed they only gave out 50 tags in 102/118 last year.

That was only for the archery tags, which was an increase from 38 the year before.
When I look at the draw summaries on ABRelm it shows for 102/118 trophy antelope: 2017-262 tags, 2018-250 tags.
They did cut the nontrophy tags in half though, from 20 in 2017 to 10 in 2018.

[H380]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Winter of 2017/18 was hard on them

Lots of snow at the end of the year

Pronghorn management in the province is terrible

Even after the die off they never adjusted tags

I’m not sure who these biologists are trying to fool. I doubt many leave the office

The govt needs to decide what is more important, protecting and sustainability for all animals or satisfying certain special interest groups that aren’t regulated

They are the same bios that dont have clue about mule deer numbers in these same zones ...big die off in winter of 17/18 like you said , but they doubled the tags given out...I talked with that same bio 2 weeks ago about it and he says same number of tags will be given out this year . I thi k he needs to get out of the office and do some counting .

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by albertadave

That was only for the archery tags, which was an increase from 38 the year before.
When I look at the draw summaries on ABRelm it shows for 102/118 trophy antelope: 2017-262 tags, 2018-250 tags.
They did cut the nontrophy tags in half though, from 20 in 2017 to 10 in 2018.

Your right Dave, I was looking at the wrong summary!

[walking buffalo]

Spidey,

This is some real old dirty underwear to pick up.
Sure you want to touch it?



There are some old threads on the topic that provide a bit of bleach.

Myself and Deer Hunter have most of the data from that time.

[Dean2]

Like just about every other game animal, predation, disease, road kill, habitat loss, unlicensed hunters, poaching and mostly the weather all have a FAR bigger impact on game numbers than hunting harvest ever has or ever will have. On an aggregated basis these factors combined are many times more impactful than legal harvest. If we really want to manage game populations we need to work on the factors that really affect game numbers. Messing around with the number of tags issued is farting against thunder.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Like just about every other game animal, predation, disease, road kill, habitat loss, unlicensed hunters, poaching and mostly the weather all have a FAR bigger impact on game numbers than hunting harvest ever has or ever will have. On an aggregated basis these factors combined are many times more impactful than legal harvest. If we really want to manage game populations we need to work on the factors that really affect game numbers. Messing around with the number of tags issued is farting against thunder.

While your comments hold merit, Spidey's topic appears to be highlighting the issue of user group allocations and policy.

What happened within F&W after the 2011 winterkill exemplified Alberta wildlife hunting policy abstinence and the resulting negative effects on Resident hunters.

I'm curious as to how dirty Spidey is willing to get.

[Arachnodisiac]

Well, that sounds like a challenge... especially with a limited word count.
But I am more than willing to pursue it. I am NOT having any luck getting information from the government, which is rather odd.

Does anyone know any outfitters in the SE corner? I'm going to have to track some down.

Also, I did find the draw/licence numbers, but those don't include outfitter allocations. Is that correct?

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I'm curious as to how dirty Spidey is willing to get.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Arachnodisiac

Well, that sounds like a challenge... especially with a limited word count.
But I am more than willing to pursue it. I am NOT having any luck getting information from the government, which is rather odd.

Does anyone know any outfitters in the SE corner? I'm going to have to track some down.

Also, I did find the draw/licence numbers, but those don't include outfitter allocations. Is that correct?

Odd? Makes one's Spidey senses tingle...

The lack of transparency is more like normal when the cat is in the bag.

To understand the issue, you also need historical population estimates and hunting licences issued, the Pronghorn Management Plan and the ever fluid Outfitter Allocation policy agreements ...

Correct. Draw licence numbers do not include outfitter allocations.

[Arachnodisiac]

'
So, as far as you know, there is no publicly accessible record of pronghorn outfitter allocations?
I just want to make sure I am not missing anything.

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Odd? Makes one's Spidey senses tingle...

The lack of transparency is more like normal when the cat is in the bag.

To understand the issue, you also need historical population estimates and hunting licences issued, the Pronghorn Management Plan and the ever fluid Outfitter Allocation policy agreements ...

Correct. Draw licence numbers do not include outfitter allocations.

[marky_mark]

Alberta isn’t know to be a “hot spot” for antelope hunting
Not sure why anyone would come here compared to a antelope hunt offered in Wyoming

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Alberta isn’t know to be a “hot spot” for antelope hunting
Not sure why anyone would come here compared to a antelope hunt offered in Wyoming

That is true for sure. There are at least ten states with better Antelope hunting and it is a pretty cheap hunt in the States compared to even WT hunts let alone Elk.

[thumper]

Silver Sage Outfitters seems to be the biggest Alberta outfitter offering antelope hunts.

Alberta residents must wait for their draws to come up, and it's now a 10 year + wait, whilst non-residents can hunt every year on an outfitters tag. This injustice is rubbed in our noses when non-resident TV hunting show personalities have annual episodes of Alberta pronghorn hunts. When the draw wait was around 2 years, it was no big deal, but not now.
The outfitters position, is that they advertise and take bookings one or two years in advance, so they need to have a set, guaranteed number of antelope tags, well before any annual population review is conducted, and an overall harvest is allotted. This means that resident tags have been drastically reduced, with no reduction in outfitter tags, leaving a higher percentage of the available tags in the hands of non-residents. In most jurisdictions, if residents had to wait 10+ years to be drawn, there would be 0 tags allotted to non-residents. Not here.
That's my understanding.

[270person]

Originally Posted by thumper

SOME Alberta residents must wait for their draws to come up, and it's now a 10 year + wait,
.

Edited for accuracy.

[270person]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Alberta isn’t know to be a “hot spot” for antelope hunting
Not sure why anyone would come here compared to a antelope hunt offered in Wyoming

For a freebie to help promote the outfitters?

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by 270person

For a freebie to help promote the outfitters?

No matter how much you try and edit an antelope hunt from Alberta
I can’t see it comparing to a hunt in Wyoming or New Mexico
250 guys who have waited 10 years plus is hard to edit out unless your shooting one the guide picked out opening morning

I’m no expert but I have shot 7 in the last 2 years and by far the worst hunt was here in Alberta