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  #151  
Old 12-16-2017, 01:31 PM
Donkey Oatey Donkey Oatey is offline
 
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Holy derailment Batman.
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Attention Anti Hunters
Sit back
Pour yourself a tea

Watch us "sportsmen" attack each other and destroy ourselves from within.

From road hunters vs "real hunters" to bowhunters vs rifle hunters, long bows and recurves vs compound user to bow vs crossbow to white hunters vs Native hunters etc etc etc
.....

Enjoy the easy ride, anti hunters. Strange to me why we seem to be doing your job for you.

Excuse me while I go puke.
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  #152  
Old 12-16-2017, 01:34 PM
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so.... uhm.... anyone find out who those guys were?
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  #153  
Old 12-16-2017, 01:38 PM
Taiga Taiga is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ResidentSpokesman View Post
Crown land here vs public land there are apples & oranges. A lot of those guys are stuck in areas as small as a few acres along with a pile of other guys.

Alberta has all this awesome access BECAUSE there is no legal paid access. Here’s an example. There is an outfitter in Alberta that pays / trades landowners for exclusive access in one of the areas I hunt. Because I used to work for him I was privy to several of his deals. He has at least a couple dozen 1/4s that literally nobody else ever has a chance of getting access on because he has either paid them cash or given them freebies from the other business he owns in exchange for exclusive access.

Making this legal in any way, shape or form will magnify this problem exponentially.

So I legally bought 12 quarters and ‘literally’ nobody else will ever have a chance of getting access on (except my dad and kids when they get older) because I paid ‘$ for them for exclusive access’. So what’s the problem?

Guys complain about not being allowed to hunt on private land, makes me laugh. Buy your own private land and open’er up to the public and hopefully that will make you happy.
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  #154  
Old 12-16-2017, 01:55 PM
SLH SLH is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Taiga View Post
So I legally bought 12 quarters and ‘literally’ nobody else will ever have a chance of getting access on (except my dad and kids when they get older) because I paid ‘$ for them for exclusive access’. So what’s the problem?
This is a perfectly acceptable situation. You retain full control on access and my rights to the public trust (wildlife) is protected. You and your family have the right to that portion of the public trust that the province grants you by way of hunting licences. If at anytime your situation changes and you desire more of the resource harvested then you control who gets on at that time.

Ideal!
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  #155  
Old 12-16-2017, 02:01 PM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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Originally Posted by Taiga View Post
So I legally bought 12 quarters and ‘literally’ nobody else will ever have a chance of getting access on (except my dad and kids when they get older) because I paid ‘$ for them for exclusive access’. So what’s the problem?

Guys complain about not being allowed to hunt on private land, makes me laugh. Buy your own private land and open’er up to the public and hopefully that will make you happy.
Prime example Taiga. No one will have access except your immediate family. Now if you were able to charge access would you allow access to a outsider?
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  #156  
Old 12-16-2017, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Norwest Alta View Post
Prime example Taiga. No one will have access except your immediate family. Now if you were able to charge access would you allow access to a outsider?
And how would you protect my right to the public trust?
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  #157  
Old 12-16-2017, 02:13 PM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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Originally Posted by SLH View Post
And how would you protect my right to the public trust?
I wouldn’t. Not into public trust. Don’t trust the public much at all.
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  #158  
Old 12-16-2017, 02:20 PM
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58thecat 58thecat is offline
 
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Most drifters got invited in and fed. They most certainly didn’t get shot.
Maybe a drifter only if he wasn't in possession of another mans horseor woman

image.jpg
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  #159  
Old 12-16-2017, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Norwest Alta View Post
I wouldn’t. Not into public trust. Don’t trust the public much at all.
"The public trust".

You do know what that means right?
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  #160  
Old 12-16-2017, 02:31 PM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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Originally Posted by SLH View Post
"The public trust".

You do know what that means right?
Yes I do perhaps a ill attempt to lighten the mood regarding paid access.

I don’t know why your right to the wildlife would be affected. From what I’ve noticed is that the wildlife seem to move freely from my land to the other neighboring land.
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  #161  
Old 12-16-2017, 02:51 PM
Taiga Taiga is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Norwest Alta View Post
Prime example Taiga. No one will have access except your immediate family. Now if you were able to charge access would you allow access to a outsider?
No I would not allow access to outsiders, not my interest to make money that way. I favour management for trophy (= maturity, let the males get older), I enjoy having lots of animals around (don’t kill the females and juvenile males).
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  #162  
Old 12-16-2017, 03:13 PM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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Thanks taiga
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  #163  
Old 12-16-2017, 06:36 PM
270person 270person is offline
 
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Originally Posted by HuntingAlberta View Post
Good morning all, just a follow up as I've received lots of questions, and some help.

The one person has been identified. The authorities are aware and are currently building their case. I am pressing charges, to the maximum extent of the law.


Good job. Hope you nail them good.
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  #164  
Old 12-16-2017, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SLH View Post
And how would you protect my right to the public trust?
I would say that if you can get permission on a bordering property you are welcome to wait until part of the public trust leaves the other property and gets within range of your rifle.

I know a few places that have never allowed hunters and there are lots of game there. If everyone allowed access the game would be as scarce as on crown land.
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  #165  
Old 12-16-2017, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Most drifters got invited in and fed. They most certainly didn’t get shot.
and some got offered a job even if the pay was only room and board.

You are right. Only on television did they get shot and then it was by the evil cattle baron.
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  #166  
Old 12-16-2017, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tikka250 View Post
so.... uhm.... anyone find out who those guys were?
Yep, the OP posted that one of the two has been identified.
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  #167  
Old 12-16-2017, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Norwest Alta View Post
I wouldn’t. Not into public trust. Don’t trust the public much at all.
and for that reason why should a landowner trust anyone that he/she does not know.
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  #168  
Old 12-16-2017, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Norwest Alta View Post
Yes I do perhaps a ill attempt to lighten the mood regarding paid access.

I don’t know why your right to the wildlife would be affected. From what I’ve noticed is that the wildlife seem to move freely from my land to the other neighboring land.
I have noted that herd animals like elk seem to congregate and during legal hours stay where it is safe.
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  #169  
Old 12-16-2017, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Taiga View Post
No I would not allow access to outsiders, not my interest to make money that way. I favour management for trophy (= maturity, let the males get older), I enjoy having lots of animals around (don’t kill the females and juvenile males).
Your land! Your call! No problem.
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  #170  
Old 12-16-2017, 08:48 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 270person View Post
Good job. Hope you nail them good.
Hopefully it is a guide, and the outfitter sent him onto the property, so both can be charged.
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  #171  
Old 12-17-2017, 05:05 AM
ResidentSpokesman ResidentSpokesman is offline
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Originally Posted by covey ridge View Post
Illegal or legal, there already is paid access in Alberta that it fairly common knowledge. The illegal access that you were involved with is just one example.
I know of a landowner that only grants access to close friends. He would never take payment from anyone, but he will rent out one of several cabins on his property to groups of hunters

Every suspicion of paid access that I know about seems to have the stench of outfitter pay off. You say making paid hunting legal will magnify the problem. I think outfitters are the stink and are the problem.

The legal small out of wallet I paid in Wyoming is nothing compared to land that is closed off to hunters due to outfitters.

You’re right. I suppose I was involved. I should probably turn myself in.

What do you think I can expect as a penalty for being aware that he was breaking the law and reporting every single infraction that I was aware of directly to Report A Poacher?

Infering wrong doing where it doesn’t exist to prove a point only makes your point weaker friend.

To a point I agree though. Outfitters likely are a big part of the problem. They are the only group of hunters involved in this that stand to benefit financially from paid private land access for the purpose of hunting. It’s only reasonable to expect that the less scrupulous (that exist in every group) would gladly consider a bribe to be just another cost of doing business / part of the overhead for a hunt.

The dynamics of this are totally different for outfitters compared to every other stakeholder. As such, I believe outfitters should be held to a higher standard.

The one I mentioned here is greasy. I know of two others that are just as greasy. The other two have long histories with F&W including several convictions. This guy must either have F&W already in his pocket (which I doubt) or be the luckiest loser I ever met because in more than 10 years (and a lot of RAP reports from a lot of people) they have yet to charge him as far as I know.
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  #172  
Old 12-17-2017, 05:08 AM
ResidentSpokesman ResidentSpokesman is offline
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Hopefully it is a guide, and the outfitter sent him onto the property, so both can be charged.
Not sure how well that charge would stick unfortunately.
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  #173  
Old 12-17-2017, 05:19 AM
ResidentSpokesman ResidentSpokesman is offline
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Originally Posted by Taiga View Post
So I legally bought 12 quarters and ‘literally’ nobody else will ever have a chance of getting access on (except my dad and kids when they get older) because I paid ‘$ for them for exclusive access’. So what’s the problem?

Guys complain about not being allowed to hunt on private land, makes me laugh. Buy your own private land and open’er up to the public and hopefully that will make you happy.
I don’t see anyone complaining about “not being allowed to hunt private land”. And as a matter of fact I happen to own just over 1100 acres of beautiful private land. I get hit on a lot by hunters from every walk of life so I’ve got some experience here that lends itself well to the topic at hand. If you want to continue this conversation like an adult I’m happy to do exactly that. If all you’ve got to add is tired generalizations that don’t apply to the subject at all then I encourage you to find someone else to argue with, I’m not interested.
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  #174  
Old 12-17-2017, 05:26 AM
ResidentSpokesman ResidentSpokesman is offline
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Originally Posted by covey ridge View Post
I know a few places that have never allowed hunters and there are lots of game there. If everyone allowed access the game would be as scarce as on crown land.
I couldn’t agree more. I have a neighbour a few miles down the road that has not allowed hunters since she bought the property with her husband in the 60s. Their 4 quarters seem to have as many or more deer & Elk than the rest of the zone combined. After she passes away there are going to be a couple of us in a hurry to try and buy the place.
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  #175  
Old 12-17-2017, 07:01 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ResidentSpokesman View Post
Not sure how well that charge would stick unfortunately.
The charges did stick when a guide working for one sherp outfitter was found hunting in another outfitters area. If the outfitter is aware of his guide hunting where he isn't supposed to be hunting, the outfitter can also apparently be held responsible.
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  #176  
Old 12-17-2017, 07:30 AM
ResidentSpokesman ResidentSpokesman is offline
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
The charges did stick when a guide working for one sherp outfitter was found hunting in another outfitters area. If the outfitter is aware of his guide hunting where he isn't supposed to be hunting, the outfitter can also apparently be held responsible.
We’re talking about two totally seperate and unrelated charges. One is trespassing and the other is hunting without a license (assuming we’re talking about a non resident, with a guide in the wrong zone).

In the example you gave there was almost certainly no trespassing in the equation (unless it was on a mine maybe?) because it was a sheep hunt right?

I would be surprised to see an outfitter charged with trespassing if the outfitter himself was not on the land. Not that he shouldn’t be, or that he doesn’t deserve to be.....he definitely does (assuming he instructed his guide to trespass).
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  #177  
Old 12-17-2017, 07:58 AM
35 whelen 35 whelen is offline
 
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Originally Posted by nube View Post
i would say a guide. He has no gun but the guy behind him does. Food for thought?
yep
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  #178  
Old 12-17-2017, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by HuntingAlberta View Post
This particular property is fully fenced, and i would care to guess that every third fencepost (or on an equivalent spaced tree) on the high traffic areas is a 12x36" red steel sign, a "no trespassing tire," a 12x24 bright yellow aluminum, or the typical yellow no trespassing plastics.

640 acres and probably has 150-200 no trespassing signs. Maybe more.

I literally charged a group of 3 guys, 5 or so years ago who "didn't see the signs," but were caught with a cow elk running towards the fence line dragging it to get off the property. They gave me the old "we didn't see any signs" routine and we could see 6 different signs from where we were standing.

This property has the locks cut off, gates shot, locked our locks out of the chain, cut wires, or damaged property at least 1-3 times per season. And i don't recall it ever being a repeat offender that's been charged.
For those that have forgotten what this original thread was about, read this quote from the OP.
There was NO mistake about private land, these people disregarded the signs and it is an ongoing problem with the land owner.

There is very little that disgusts me more than trespassers,thieves , and poachers,, and in my experience if the people in question have no problem breaking one law they have no problem breaking the other ones.
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  #179  
Old 12-17-2017, 08:29 AM
ResidentSpokesman ResidentSpokesman is offline
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Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
and in my experience if the people in question have no problem breaking one law they have no problem breaking the other ones.
Cat
It always seems to be the same locals and the same outfitters year after year doesn’t it
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  #180  
Old 12-17-2017, 08:55 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ResidentSpokesman View Post
We’re talking about two totally seperate and unrelated charges. One is trespassing and the other is hunting without a license (assuming we’re talking about a non resident, with a guide in the wrong zone).

In the example you gave there was almost certainly no trespassing in the equation (unless it was on a mine maybe?) because it was a sheep hunt right?

I would be surprised to see an outfitter charged with trespassing if the outfitter himself was not on the land. Not that he shouldn’t be, or that he doesn’t deserve to be.....he definitely does (assuming he instructed his guide to trespass).
The point being, that the outfitter can still be held responsible for the actions of his employees, if he is aware that the employee is committing a violation.
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