The Myth of Energy Transfer - Page 7

whitetail Junkie · #**181** 05-25-2010, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.

I call B.S. IMO.... or at least if it did happen, it wasn't because of shock.

No BS,180 grain bullet goes through the doe's hind leg's she drop's,she was dead.Simple as that.Why would I lie about This?

Arn?Narn. · #**182** 05-25-2010, 04:20 PM

Ok,...

What you saw was a once in a lifetime opportunity,..you witnessed a wild animal die of natural causes at the same time it was shot in the leg...

#**183** 05-25-2010, 04:26 PM

Blow out a femoral artery and death comes very quickly. I don't doubt it happened wj, just not for the reason you think.

If an animal can die from the "shock" of being struck in the hind leg, why are head shots that miss the brain so ineffective? Because blood loss is minimal....that's why.

clakjp · #**184** 05-25-2010, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Once again JustinC, your inability to read astounds me. Your question was asked and answered. There is no best for everyone or every situation. There are countless great bullets out there and I continue to use many of them. I have many favourites and I know many knowledgeable hunters that have others.

I read fine. as stated as above.You answered it alot better this time.I still dont buy to your theory as neither have been 100% proven.I find it funny how you cant answer a simple question with a simple answer.Instead you try and put peole down.Not cool.So good luck trying to fill everybody with your theory as I will not be one either.

clakjp · #**185** 05-25-2010, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.

Ok,...

What you saw was a once in a lifetime opportunity,..you witnessed a wild animal die of natural causes at the same time it was shot in the leg...

I watched a guy do the same thing and that deer did not flinch.It was dead as dead could be. (No it was not me shooting sheep)

#**186** 05-25-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clakjp

I read fine. as stated as above.You answered it alot better this time.I still dont buy to your theory as neither have been 100% proven.I find it funny how you cant answer a simple question with a simple answer.Instead you try and put peole down.Not cool.So good luck trying to fill everybody with your theory as I will not be one either.

What haven't I answered JustinC. My theory, is hardly my theory, it's pretty universally accepted and was what swayed my mind after I did the research. Not sure I've put anyone down other than a banned user that kept asking nonsensical questions and then not accepting the answer. I am having a pretty good conversation with several others.

Arn?Narn. · #**187** 05-25-2010, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Blow out a femoral artery and death comes very quickly. I don't doubt it happened wj, just not for the reason you think.

If an animal can die from the "shock" of being struck in the hind leg, why are head shots that miss the brain so ineffective? Because blood loss is minimal....that's why.

Death comes quickly with a femoral puncture laceration, indeed,...
Never heard of one resulting in a death that usually occur and not always then, from CNS involvement.

So here is the question...

What do you believe killed the deer "before it even hit the ground" DRT !

Arn?Narn. · #**188** 05-25-2010, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clakjp

I watched a guy do the same thing and that deer did not flinch.It was dead as dead could be. (No it was not me shooting sheep)

The animal did not die from the hyrdrostatic shock or whatever ...
I also do not believe that a deer, shot in the leg, dies instantaneously as some of you have claimed.

Sorry...

whitetail Junkie · #**189** 05-25-2010, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Blow out a femoral artery and death comes very quickly. I don't doubt it happened wj, just not for the reason you think.

If an animal can die from the "shock" of being struck in the hind leg, why are head shots that miss the brain so ineffective? Because blood loss is minimal....that's why.

I've honestley never heard of head shot's being ineffective,however I do got another Fairytail for yaa, when I was a kid hunting with my dad in southern saskatchewan,we heard a bunch of shooting,then 5 miniuts later saw a buck running right for us,the bucks toungue was completly hanging out and swinging all over the place because some other hunter's shot the deer's lower Jaw completley of it's head.Dad was able to put the deer out of it's misery's for the other hunter's who claimed the deer later.I guess that could be an example of a "Failed " head shot.

#**190** 05-25-2010, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.

Death comes quickly with a femoral puncture laceration, indeed,...
Never heard of one resulting in a death that usually occur and not always then, from CNS involvement.

So here is the question...

What do you believe killed the deer "before it even hit the ground" DRT !

LOL...I'm guessing there was a bit of artistic licence in that quote. I could believe it was dead when he got to it though and that it didn't travel anywhere. Smash major bone and blow out the femoral artery and a deer could easy fall right down and rapidly bleed out without moving giving the impression of dying on its feet.

whitetail Junkie · #**191** 05-25-2010, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.

The animal did not die from the hyrdrostatic shock or whatever ...
I also do not believe that a deer, shot in the leg, dies instantaneously as some of you have claimed.

Sorry...

Well believe it or not,it happened,how often do you hunt deer every year?? What experiences have you ever had? You seem like a knowledgable Fella,so lets hear it Bud?

#**192** 05-25-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

I've honestley never heard of head shot's being ineffective,however I do got another Fairytail for yaa, when I was a kid hunting with my dad in southern saskatchewan,we heard a bunch of shooting,then 5 miniuts later saw a buck running right for us,the bucks toungue was completly hanging out and swinging all over the place because some other hunter's shot the deer's lower Jaw completley of it's head.Dad was able to put the deer out of it's misery's for the other hunter's who claimed the deer later.I guess that could be an example of a "Failed " head shot.

Huh? You've never heard of a head shot being ineffective then you give an example of one........you need to work on your debating skills....lol

If energy was the end all and be all, wouldn't that failed head shot have been instantly fatal...being so close to the brain and all?

Arn?Narn. · #**193** 05-25-2010, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

LOL...I'm guessing there was a bit of artistic licence in that quote. I could believe it was dead when he got to it though and that it didn't travel anywhere. Smash major bone and blow out the femoral artery and a deer could easy fall right down and rapidly bleed out without moving giving the impression of dying on its feet.

Of all people, I was wondering where you going with that

Your explanation pretty well sums it up.

clakjp · #**194** 05-25-2010, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

What haven't I answered JustinC. My theory, is hardly my theory, it's pretty universally accepted and was what swayed my mind after I did the research. Not sure I've put anyone down other than a banned user that kept asking nonsensical questions and then not accepting the answer. I am having a pretty good conversation with several others.

ok tj what ever you think.I have read some of your posts.Like I stated you know alot about alot of things but I dont buy in to this one.I asked a queston and got an answer so thanks.

Arn?Narn. · #**195** 05-25-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

Well believe it or not,it happened,how often do you hunt deer every year?? What experiences have you ever had? You seem like a knowledgable Fella,so lets hear it Bud?

Not sure what you want to hear...I have already told you what I think..

whitetail Junkie · #**196** 05-25-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Huh? You've never heard of a head shot being ineffective then you give an example of one........you need to work on your debating skills....lol

If energy was the end all and be all, wouldn't that failed head shot have been instantly fatal...being so close to the brain and all?

Well I'm contributing to the thread with a real life experience I had,you mentioned failed head shots,I gave an example of another experience I had.Obviously i'm not being totally Biaest In this thread.If I really did'nt want to contribute my last Story to the thread I would'nt have would I???

Like previously Mentioned energy is'nt the end all and be all to killing an animal.However it does play a Major Factor in Death.If you argue this Truth,then i'm afraid that you are being Neive

#**197** 05-25-2010, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

Well I'm contributing to the thread with a real life experience I had,you mentioned failed head shots,I gave an example of another experience I had.Obviously i'm not being totally Biaest In this thread.If I really did'nt want to contribute my last Story to the thread I would'nt have would I???

Like previously Mentioned energy is'nt the end all and be all to killing an animal.However it does play a Major Factor in Death.If you argue this Truth,then i'm afraid that you are being Neive

Relax Ty, just giving you a hard time.

So tell me then how energy plays a major factor in death? I'd hate to be naïve and miss out on this truth. I'm all ears.

LB 270 · #**198** 05-25-2010, 05:16 PM

I shot a mule deer doe in the back legs. She folded up and while not dead when I got to her she expired fairly quickly after. The bullet hit the bone and went up into her pelvis. She dropped like a stone, probably from the shock running up her spine. Poor shot, good result. Wasted a lot of the back leg on that one.

Bottom line, you never know how any animal is going to react to being shot. I have had deer run for a long ways pouring blood and my moose dropped right on the spot. Stir it up TJ! Ha ha

Peace!

LB

switchsl · #**199** 05-25-2010, 05:51 PM

I want a smiley face stirring a pot full of brown medium. We can shoot at said pot, and test all out theories of energy dispersion

827rotax · #**200** 05-25-2010, 06:36 PM

Well I have been out of this one for a while, I can see all i missed was the ****ing contest. no one is even talking about one of the major contributing factors of the article. Shot placement. Everyone is not going to agree, it is kind of like global warming, some believe and have proof others dont and have proof. Shock wave or no shock wave, we can all agree that hitting in the boiler room is critical for fast ethical kills. Right?? Expanding bullets release more of its energy into the animal as it expands and travels through the animal compared to a fmj that does not. Thus creating a larger wound channel and excellerate bleeding out. All animals will have shock and can die from it no doubt. I have seen many lungs pure jelly, but with both a rifle and a arrow, is that from a shock wave, i do not not think so. I also believe in my theory of a bullet hitting hard enough to change the rhythm of an animals heart and that will contibute to instant death. with or with the SHOCK WAVE, I am going to continue to take ethical shots, and more so NOT shoot the lower percentage ones just to take the shot. Many hunters need to learn that there will always be another day and to not take the lower percentage shot. To me this is more important than shock wave or no shock wave.
my .02
Dennis

#**201** 05-25-2010, 06:45 PM

Actually, shot placement is pretty well all I was talking about. You need to hit them in a vital organ or cause massive enough haemoraging for them to die. As there is no such thing as a shockwave and hydrodynamic pulse plays a minor role.......placement is everything.

Arn?Narn. · #**202** 05-25-2010, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Actually, shot placement is pretty well all I was talking about. You need to hit them in a vital organ or cause massive enough haemoraging for them to die. As there is no such thing as a shockwave and hydrodynamic pulse plays a minor role.......placement is everything.

This is true.

duceman · #**203** 05-25-2010, 07:19 PM

i've whacked a pile of critters, from mice with pellet guns to moose with centerfire. the only bang-flops i've had or seen, have came from critters hit in the spine or head. period.
i've had some travel less than others, but the only ones that drop on the spot are the ones that CAN'T, due to cns disruption.
lee.

Arn?Narn. · #**204** 05-25-2010, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duceman

i've whacked a pile of critters, from mice with pellet guns to moose with centerfire. the only bang-flops i've had or seen, have came from critters hit in the spine or head. period.
i've had some travel less than others, but the only ones that drop on the spot are the ones that CAN'T, due to cns disruption.
lee.

Great Post !

Arn?Narn. · #**205** 05-25-2010, 07:48 PM

Now the thread is finally coming full circle and people are realizing the truth and facts, I can honestly say it was a good discussion and I am glad to have helped a few of you realize what the actual facts are...

you're welcome guys!

Cheers !

duceman · #**206** 05-25-2010, 07:52 PM

funny how it took 7 pages,(and probably more to come), for plain old common sense to prevail. really guys, the wheel is round, for the last time, you will never improve on the design, lee.

elkhunter11 · #**207** 05-25-2010, 08:07 PM

Quote:

i've whacked a pile of critters, from mice with pellet guns to moose with centerfire. the only bang-flops i've had or seen, have came from critters hit in the spine or head. period.

I have had several deer and pronghorn do bang-flops with heart/lung shots.In most cases,the load being used,was the 140gr ballistic tip driven out of my 7mmstw at 3500fps.In all cases,the wound channels were massive.

Pathfinder76 · #**208** 05-25-2010, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arn?Narn.

Now the thread is finally coming full circle and people are realizing the truth and facts, I can honestly say it was a good discussion and I am glad to have helped a few of you realize what the actual facts are...

you're welcome guys!

Cheers !

What exactly are we thanking you for?

Arn?Narn. · #**209** 05-25-2010, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck

What exactly are we thanking you for?

again,..

you're welcome..

fisher Gord · #**210** 05-25-2010, 10:27 PM

My first bull elk with my 7mm, I was 17 at the time. was shot right behind the shoulder quartering away from about 20 yards. the factory bullet went about 16 inches, broke 4 ribs and ended up in the same shoulder. the elk ran 40/45 yards fell over i approached and shot it in the head. lungs were black with clotted blood but the bullet never enter the chest cavity, maybe some rib fragments but not many. 4 deer I shot in the heart two with soft tips and two with fail safe. soft tips heart was in pieces, fail safe hole through, all 4 ran 80/100 yards. i have seen a buck hit with a bullet that blew up on his side destroying ribs and skin, deer still ran had to be shot again. Father in law threw a stick at a steer, hit it in the ribs, steer fell down dead. unusual kills happen, we make good ones with proper bullets ,caliber,energy,and shot placement. you do not take a 243 on an elephant hunt, okay just once.