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  #121  
Old 08-20-2012, 11:19 AM
mark-edmonton mark-edmonton is offline
 
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Blake

You are as much of a troll as anyone else posting their opinion on this forum. You seem to be unable to comprehend that others opinions may vary from what you deem correct.

And in my experience it is not the emt's that have a god complex, paramedics I would say some I work with have it. But they have also saved a few lives. And I am proud to say that I have been a participant in a few of those cases. And I would bet my next pay cheque that %50 or more of peace officers are in that role simply because they cannot become a real police. I am all for them
Being able to defend themselves, I just do not feel they should have a deadly force weapon on their hips.

So get over yourself and accept the fact that many people will have a different opinion that yourself. And if the solicitor generals office deemed that these people should be armed then so be it, no skin off my ass either way. I'm am merely stating my opinion.
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  #122  
Old 08-20-2012, 11:24 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Quote:
And I would bet my next pay cheque that %50 or more of peace officers are in that role simply because they cannot become a real police. I am all for them
Being able to defend themselves, I just do not feel they should have a deadly force weapon on their hips.
I agree on both counts. If the average citizen isn't trusted to carry a handgun, why should someone that wasn't accepted to be a real police officer be trusted to carry a handgun?
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  #123  
Old 08-20-2012, 11:43 AM
Theganch Theganch is offline
 
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No thanks!!... "Peace Officers" with guns?!!... Sorry, no!. Peace officers were created to take the strain off of "Police Officers" in the motor vehicle tracfic laws. Since the Peace officer, I'm thinking they have overstepped thier job discriptions. Arming them would only inflate thier egos even more. It's kinda like a fireman now a days!... Lots of the younger one think they belong to the "9-11" heros club, like they were there!. Peace Officers with guns?!.. Sorry, not a chance!
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  #124  
Old 08-20-2012, 01:54 PM
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By the looks of all the law enforcement haters on this fourm I definitely want PO's armed!

Oh and arming regular citizens? Lol. Bunch of redneck cowboy vigilantes running around pulling sidearms on each other. No thanks!
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  #125  
Old 08-20-2012, 02:19 PM
mark-edmonton mark-edmonton is offline
 
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So you assume that because some inividuals don't feel peace officers should that those people are haters!! Nice logic. You want them armed sign the petition.
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  #126  
Old 08-20-2012, 03:21 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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By now, the PO's should have some empathy for us fudds. It's easy for all to get tarred with the same brush. Among us fudds, the spectrum ranges from individuals who have serious "control" issues to folks that just want to help. I doubt that any of the posters who were critical of PO's in this thread are "haters"....I am certainly not. But, I do oppose the lethal arming any more PO's than we already have. Prisoner transfers for Sheriffs, no problem.
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  #127  
Old 08-20-2012, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Kale_M View Post
By the looks of all the law enforcement haters on this fourm I definitely want PO's armed!

Oh and arming regular citizens? Lol. Bunch of redneck cowboy vigilantes running around pulling sidearms on each other. No thanks!
I've delt with other peace officers in town and they have been more than reasonable.

And I agree with you on C&C, not trying to steriotype all C&C supporters with the same brush but most of the guys I know who want C&C are exact people who shouldnt be carrying around sidearms... redneck cowboy vigilantes pretty much sums the particular guys I know.
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  #128  
Old 08-20-2012, 03:50 PM
Olderangler Olderangler is offline
 
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I just want to add that alot of mall cops and wanna be's are retired police officers. Alot of the younger ones are law enforcement students putting themselves through college.
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  #129  
Old 08-20-2012, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Olderangler View Post
I just want to add that alot of mall cops and wanna be's are retired police officers. Alot of the younger ones are law enforcement students putting themselves through college.
indeed. one more thing to add, go ask a CPS/RCMP/EPS recruiter what they think of the Peace Officers in the province, and how many they recruit. You'd be surprised in the numbers.
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  #130  
Old 08-20-2012, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mark-edmonton View Post
Blake

You are as much of a troll as anyone else posting their opinion on this forum. You seem to be unable to comprehend that others opinions may vary from what you deem correct.

And in my experience it is not the emt's that have a god complex, paramedics I would say some I work with have it. But they have also saved a few lives. And I am proud to say that I have been a participant in a few of those cases. And I would bet my next pay cheque that %50 or more of peace officers are in that role simply because they cannot become a real police. I am all for them
Being able to defend themselves, I just do not feel they should have a deadly force weapon on their hips.

So get over yourself and accept the fact that many people will have a different opinion that yourself. And if the solicitor generals office deemed that these people should be armed then so be it, no skin off my ass either way. I'm am merely stating my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I agree on both counts. If the average citizen isn't trusted to carry a handgun, why should someone that wasn't accepted to be a real police officer be trusted to carry a handgun?

Ok. I'll bite.

50+% huh? Source? Or will this be the first ever "Just cause I think so and I don't need proof cause that's what my buddy told me" post deemed acceptable fact on the forum.

I'll let you two know where to send the certified cheques. Just let me know when they're ready boys.

Out of all the people I've worked with in the last 11 years, TWO were rejected by the police. And one was because he was half blind and wouldn't get surgery to fix his eyes. The other twenty or so that applied were accepted. The RCMP, EPS and CPS look on the experience gained as a peace officer favourably indeed.

The majority of the remainder, myself included, have no desire to be police. I do the job because it pays well, I have a family to support and I only work 12 hour days 14 days a month on a full time line.

Now, at risk of repeating myself, if you were paying attention to my other posts I already agreed that most peace officers DON'T need sidearms.

I also agreed that not all that work with us are suitable for the position. But you could say that about any profession. Yours included. And you kind of agreed ("god complex" mm hmm). If it makes you feel any better they're usually weeded out pretty quickly.

And I never once said the citizenry didn't have a right to protect themselves. Even though the majority of the citizenry seem to feel running someone on a stolen quad off the road with your truck then shooting them in the back twice as they run away is protecting themselves.

I don't have a problem with anyone's opinion on the matter. Never did. But people aren't just stating their opinion. They're attacking people and calling them names. My issue lies in the complete disrespect being shown to a victim of a violent crime and honest hard working people. People that are all being painted with the same brush (apparently this is the phrase of the day). AND MERE DAYS AFTER THE VICTIM WAS MURDERED!

And if you were being honest about the matter you would agree.

Now tell me, If the roles were reversed and this started as a thread regarding safety issues for EMS after one was beaten to death with an IV pole, then turned into a bashing session saying all medics abuse their lights and sirens to run red lights and avoid traffic so they can go to lunch faster (Tell me it doesn't happen. I dare ya!), and they're lazy uneducated louts who should be replaced by real doctors and nurses, what would your reaction be? Would you just lay down?


Now Mark and Elk. How much can I expect? I'm in the market for a new rifle and scope and I'm curious as to how much I'll be able to spend. Cooper or Mossberg? Swarovski or Tasco?
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  #131  
Old 08-20-2012, 06:08 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Out of all the people I've worked with in the last 11 years, TWO were rejected by the police. And one was because he was half blind and wouldn't get surgery to fix his eyes.
So he is half blind and he is acceptable to work as a peace officer? So what might happen if he lost his glasses in an altercation, and he was armed and trying to aim a handgun? Who knows who might get shot.

Quote:
The other twenty or so that applied were accepted. The RCMP, EPS and CPS look on the experience gained as a peace officer favourably indeed.
I personally know a few people that work as bylaw/peace officers, and as security, that were took these jobs after being turned down, when they applied to the RCMP. Obviously the RCMP had some reason that they didn't accept them.

Quote:
I also agreed that not all that work with us are suitable for the position. But you could say that about any profession. Yours included.
True, but people in my profession aren't allowed to carry firearms while on the job, so if they do make a bad decision because of incompetence,nobody gets shot.

Quote:
I don't have a problem with anyone's opinion on the matter. Never did. But people aren't just stating their opinion. They're attacking people and calling them names.
Would you care to point out where I called anyone names in my post?
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  #132  
Old 08-20-2012, 06:15 PM
BeeGuy BeeGuy is offline
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Will anyone here support my "arm nightclub bouncers" petition? or my "arm guys with big mouths" petition?

They are all at high risk of violence.

If being a traffic tax man in rural areas is so dangerous, it is a job for the real police.
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  #133  
Old 08-20-2012, 06:21 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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I haven't followed the PO's murder very close ...is there some evidence suggesting that if he had a sidearm, that he would have been able to protect himself?
Perhaps those PO's advocating lethal carry could also provide some statistics regarding the number of PO's killed in the line of duty....facts may convince a change of opinion, unsupported rhetoric won't.
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  #134  
Old 08-20-2012, 06:23 PM
BeeGuy BeeGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
I haven't followed the PO's murder very close ...is there some evidence suggesting that if he had a sidearm, that he would have been able to protect himself?
Perhaps those PO's advocating lethal carry could also provide some statistics regarding the number of PO's killed in the line of duty....facts may convince a change of opinion, unsupported rhetoric won't.
Facts?

This is a special interest group that is taking advantage of a man's death in order to push their agenda.
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  #135  
Old 08-20-2012, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
So he is half blind and he is acceptable to work as a peace officer? So what might happen if he lost his glasses in an altercation, and he was armed and trying to aim a handgun? Who knows who might get shot.



I personally know a few people that work as bylaw/peace officers, and as security, that were took these jobs after being turned down, when they applied to the RCMP. Obviously the RCMP had some reason that they didn't accept them.


True, but people in my profession aren't allowed to carry firearms while on the job, so if they do make a bad decision because of incompetence,nobody gets shot.



Would you care to point out where I called anyone names in my post?
In order;


Quit after he found out. Works IT now.


Does that equal more than half? And how do you know? Do you hang out with them? If so do your friends know you feel this way? Did they just pull over one day and confide in you because you have a friendly face? Or, did you hear it from someone who heard it from someone?


The people that you're so concerned about aren't allowed to carry a firearm either. What is it that you do for a living? How do I know that if you screw up it won't cost someone their life? Has anyone in your profession ever cost anyone their life? If so then clearly you should all be made to do something less dangerous.

I didn't point you out as calling anyone names. I pointed you out because according to your post you, along with mike-edmonton, bet your paycheques that more than half of the peace officers in Alberta "couldn't become real police". I called you on it, you owe me your paycheque. After all "a few" is hardly half of 3000.
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  #136  
Old 08-20-2012, 07:24 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Quote:
Quit after he found out. Works IT now.
So how did he get to be a PO without knowing that he was half blind? That doesn't say much for the standards to qualify to be a PO? And with such low standards, you want those people to carry handguns?

Quote:
Does that equal more than half? And how do you know? Do you hang out with them? If so do your friends know you feel this way? Did they just pull over one day and confide in you because you have a friendly face? Or, did you hear it from someone who heard it from someone?
I do know a few POs through a neighbor that was one, and a couple of friends became POs after the RCMP refused them. Of the POs that I know, about half were refused by the RCMP.

Quote:
The people that you're so concerned about aren't allowed to carry a firearm either. What is it that you do for a living? How do I know that if you screw up it won't cost someone their life? Has anyone in your profession ever cost anyone their life? If so then clearly you should all be made to do something less dangerous.
I work in the oil industry, and I have never heard of anyone doing my particular job that has ever shot anyone while on the job. In fact firearms are not allowed on our site, including security. In over 30 years on the job, there have been very fatalities at my plant, and none were the result of decisions by people doing my particular job.

Quote:
I didn't point you out as calling anyone names. I pointed you out because according to your post you, along with mike-edmonton, bet your paycheques that more than half of the peace officers in Alberta "couldn't become real police". I called you on it, you owe me your paycheque. After all "a few" is hardly half of 3000.
And you haven't proven that half of the POs in Alberta would be able to do the job of a real police officer, so nothing has been proven either way.
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  #137  
Old 08-20-2012, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
I haven't followed the PO's murder very close ...is there some evidence suggesting that if he had a sidearm, that he would have been able to protect himself?
Perhaps those PO's advocating lethal carry could also provide some statistics regarding the number of PO's killed in the line of duty....facts may convince a change of opinion, unsupported rhetoric won't.
They haven't released all of the details so there is no way of knowing if a firearm would have helped or not. Maybe if Kloschinksy knew CPO Lazenby was armed it may have helped, but until all the facts come out it's theory.
A first degree murder charge indicates this wasn't a spur of the moment act but planned, so a sidearm may have been a deterrent.
Most feel only the officers that respond to out of the way rural settings without backup are the ones that need the option.
The province wide use of peace officers is only about three years in. This is, to my knowledge, the first, and hopefully last, murder.
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  #138  
Old 08-20-2012, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
So how did he get to be a PO without knowing that he was half blind? That doesn't say much for the standards to qualify to be a PO? And with such low standards, you want those people to carry handguns?



I do know a few POs through a neighbor that was one, and a couple of friends became POs after the RCMP refused them. Of the POs that I know, about half were refused by the RCMP.



I work in the oil industry, and I have never heard of anyone doing my particular job that has ever shot anyone while on the job. In fact firearms are not allowed on our site, including security. In over 30 years on the job, there have been very fatalities at my plant, and none were the result of decisions by people doing my particular job.

And you haven't proven that half of the POs in Alberta would be able to do the job of a real police officer, so nothing has been proven either way.

Never said he was a CPO. I said I worked with him.

So hearsay and you're selling out your friends.

A CPO in Alberta has never killed anyone either. Saying they can't have a firearm because of what might happen or something they might do seems to be something most people on this forum are trying to stop. You might climb the clock tower one day and start squeezing off rounds too. So how should we start climbing that slippery slope?

So does that mean you're not sending me your cheque?
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  #139  
Old 08-20-2012, 07:41 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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So hearsay and you're selling out your friends.
I am not selling out anyone, they now work in jobs that they are very happy to have.And they don't seem to be regretting not being accepted by the RCMP anymore.

Quote:
So does that mean you're not sending me your cheque?
You haven't proven that you won any bet. And if you somehow assume that you have, it's even more reason for me not to want you to carry a handgun while on duty.
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  #140  
Old 08-20-2012, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
I haven't followed the PO's murder very close ...is there some evidence suggesting that if he had a sidearm, that he would have been able to protect himself?
Perhaps those PO's advocating lethal carry could also provide some statistics regarding the number of PO's killed in the line of duty....facts may convince a change of opinion, unsupported rhetoric won't.
Also. By unsupported rhetoric do you mean being disgusted after being insulted by the troglodytes on this thread that are calling CPO's names, insulting the memory of a murder victim and accusing them of being on par with monkey's as far as intelligence goes?
Because that's the problem.
Not a difference of opinion as to whether we should have guns or not.

Any further questions?
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  #141  
Old 08-20-2012, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I am not selling out anyone, they now work in jobs that they are very happy to have.And they don't seem to be regretting not being accepted by the RCMP anymore.



You haven't proven that you won any bet. And if you somehow assume that you have, it's even more reason for me not to want you to carry a handgun while on duty.
Most I know that have moved on are happy doing what they do now too.

I don't want a handgun. As I've said repeatedly. I want the officers that need them to have them. I don't need one.

So just to confirm, no cheque? Damn... I had the money spent too... Maybe Mark will still fall for it. Don't say anything

Last edited by Blake; 08-20-2012 at 07:58 PM.
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  #142  
Old 08-20-2012, 07:55 PM
cnjb223 cnjb223 is offline
 
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Last time I checked way more regular Canadian citizens are killed than police, peace officers and firefighters combined. I think we deserve it more. And to the people who say they are the same as you and I, punch a peace officer then punch a white guy and see what happens. I doubt you will see equality
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  #143  
Old 08-20-2012, 08:06 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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Blake...no need for me to repeat my questions as you have already ignored answering them...but if you need a reminder, look at post 140. By not supporting the "need", I'm afraid PO's run the risk of appearing as nothing more than a special interest group as referenced by BeeGuy.
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  #144  
Old 08-20-2012, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
Blake...no need for me to repeat my questions as you have already ignored answering them...but if you need a reminder, look at post 140. By not supporting the "need", I'm afraid PO's run the risk of appearing as nothing more than a special interest group as referenced by BeeGuy.
First off, I have beeguy on my ignore list. For some reason every time I read one of his posts I actually lose bits of my long term memory for short periods of time. For example. I read a post of his once and I couldn't remember where I went to elementary school for three weeks. And the physical pain in my stomach is unbearable. So ya...

Secondly, The misconceptions shown and the stubborn refusal to listen to attempts to explain what CPO's do being ignored would render any further explanation or argument redundant. Simply because the only two answers the againsts have seem to be. "If they get one I want one", and "they're too stupid to have one".
Not to mention the ridiculous notion that the average person on the street is at as much risk as a CPO daily because CPO's only write bylaw tickets for noxious weeds.
Tell that to the Edmonton Remand CPO's that are on the segregated gang unit. Or the AHS CPO's that work in the Southern Alberta Forensic Psychiatric Centre. Or the CPO that does traffic duty in small town Alberta that does high risk traffic stops in the middle of the night on a deserted highway.
But I'm sure the average Joe is at just as much risk...
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  #145  
Old 08-20-2012, 08:53 PM
Cal Cal is offline
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[QUOTE=Blake;1568947]First off, I have beeguy on my ignore list. For some reason every time I read one of his posts I actually lose bits of my long term memory for short periods of time. For example. I read a post of his once and I couldn't remember where I went to elementary school for three weeks. And the physical pain in my stomach is unbearable. So ya...

Secondly, The misconceptions shown and the stubborn refusal to listen to attempts to explain what CPO's do being ignored would render any further explanation or argument redundant. Simply because the only two answers the againsts have seem to be. "If they get one I want one", and "they're too stupid to have one".
Not to mention the ridiculous notion that the average person on the street is at as much risk as a CPO daily because CPO's only write bylaw tickets for noxious weeds.
Tell that to the Edmonton Remand CPO's that are on the segregated gang unit. Or the AHS CPO's that work in the Southern Alberta Forensic Psychiatric Centre. Or the CPO that does traffic duty in small town Alberta that does high risk traffic stops in the middle of the night on a deserted highway.
But I'm sure the average Joe is at just as much risk...[/QUOTE]

LOL I take it you've never worked on a service rig.
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  #146  
Old 08-20-2012, 09:08 PM
purgatory.sv purgatory.sv is offline
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If the solicitor general deems it, peace officers can be armed.
At the end of the trial investigation of the tragedy some change may occur.
Till that time the discussion on this thread is not accomplishing much

I believe by keeping this thread going you are making more divisions.

I cannot support this, not the way it being put forth in this thread.
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  #147  
Old 08-20-2012, 09:23 PM
mark-edmonton mark-edmonton is offline
 
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Blake you said you were done 20 posts ago but still won't seem
To let it go. 1 personally know about 7-9 po. 2 of them too fat to attempt a physical. And 3 turned down . I from RCMP and 2 from Edmonton. One was turned down for questionable Internet usage because he downloads movies. So in my count that is over the %50 I know. You haven't proven ****, nor have I. Like
I said earlier I don't care either way but I will not support it. You can try to turn my words around as much as you like. And argue til you are blue in the face. I really don't care what you think. I have merely stated my thoughts. You don't agree. Good for you Po. Now go write someone a ticket. I'm done with you.
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  #148  
Old 08-20-2012, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark-edmonton View Post
Blake you said you were done 20 posts ago but still won't seem
To let it go. 1 personally know about 7-9 po. 2 of them too fat to attempt a physical. And 3 turned down . I from RCMP and 2 from Edmonton. One was turned down for questionable Internet usage because he downloads movies. So in my count that is over the %50 I know. You haven't proven ****, nor have I. Like
I said earlier I don't care either way but I will not support it. You can try to turn my words around as much as you like. And argue til you are blue in the face. I really don't care what you think. I have merely stated my thoughts. You don't agree. Good for you Po. Now go write someone a ticket. I'm done with you.
I was done but you lured me back with the promise of easy money. Speaking of which. We still have the matter of you signing your paycheque over to me. Because even if I combined the totals for you and elkhunter together it doesn't really come anywhere near the 50% mark. Unless you're holding another 1491 peace officers, who's personal history you're privy to, in reserve. After all you offered the bet and I accepted, I think the onus is on you to produce the numbers.
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  #149  
Old 08-20-2012, 10:33 PM
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[QUOTE=Cal;1568972]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake View Post
First off, I have beeguy on my ignore list. For some reason every time I read one of his posts I actually lose bits of my long term memory for short periods of time. For example. I read a post of his once and I couldn't remember where I went to elementary school for three weeks. And the physical pain in my stomach is unbearable. So ya...

Secondly, The misconceptions shown and the stubborn refusal to listen to attempts to explain what CPO's do being ignored would render any further explanation or argument redundant. Simply because the only two answers the againsts have seem to be. "If they get one I want one", and "they're too stupid to have one".
Not to mention the ridiculous notion that the average person on the street is at as much risk as a CPO daily because CPO's only write bylaw tickets for noxious weeds.
Tell that to the Edmonton Remand CPO's that are on the segregated gang unit. Or the AHS CPO's that work in the Southern Alberta Forensic Psychiatric Centre. Or the CPO that does traffic duty in small town Alberta that does high risk traffic stops in the middle of the night on a deserted highway.
But I'm sure the average Joe is at just as much risk...[/QUOTE]

LOL I take it you've never worked on a service rig.

Lord No! What? Do you think I'm crazy???
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  #150  
Old 08-20-2012, 10:36 PM
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Nait Hadya Nait Hadya is offline
 
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Sure, arm the ambulance people too

only if they are doing police work, while they are in your home.
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