How much recoil is too much?

[Canuck44]

I went out plinking yesterday and am nursing a sore shoulder today. I went through a quite a few rounds with the 270 which should be ok but I think the real kicker was my 45/70 guide gun that I was shooting 350 grainers at about 2100 fps+/-. This load seems to be ok for accuracy (2" or less at 100yrds) and I am planning on using it for moose, elk and bear. The recoil this is supposed to put out is in the 35-40 lbs range which is about double the 270/30-06 level.

I can shoot it OK and don't mind having a sore shoulder once in a while after test sessions of 25-30 shots but I have heard of people getting injured by big calibres that put out 50-60lbs recoil and am wondering if there is any chance of getting anything more than discomfort from this sort of shooting. Maybe I should get one of those shoulder recoil pads? What do you guys use and how much is too much?

[Big Buff]

Good Question. I think this will vary from person to person, I like shooting the big calibers and especially the next day when I can feel the bruise on my shoulder, sort of an afterthought of the fun I had.

I think important here is the position you shoot from, I would hate to shoot a big caliber when lying down, there is not much room for your shoulder to move back with the recoil and the actual impact of the recoil on your shoulder will be more. Standing up our crouching will allow for your shoulder to move back with the recoil. Also important is to make sure that the butt of the gun is tightly against your shoulder, if not you will get a kick against your shoulder instead of a hard push.

I once heard about someone who shot a .600 NE while sitting with his back to a wall, broke his collar bone!!!!

[catnthehat]

Shooting big rifles is no different than any other excercise.
If you are not in shape you can overdo it.
I have met many people that say they are uneffected by recoil until they get slip a dummy round and you watch the rifle take a huge nosedive when they hit the trigger.

Everybody flinches to a degree, the bigger the kicker, the more the flinch.

Getting over tense before a shot is not good, because the muscles are not doing what they are suposed to.
Then , when the rifle hits the shoulder, the body gets pounded in tension.
If you do not let your body relaxe between shots,
the muscles ( and tendons/legiments) keep contracting.
This can result in minute tearing of tissues, and often does.

The results can be disasterous, with pulled and torn detoids, rotator damage,
capsulitous, and all sorts of bad stuff that takes years to heal and sometimes never does completely.

Ad to that a physically demading job and a person is on his/her way to permanent damage.

The answer lies in not shooting repeatably, but taking time between shots for you body to "cool down" , PROPER fitting rifles with tiop quality recoil pads, and working up to the big stuff slowly.

Continual excercise is a must for someone who is shooting heavy kickers, same as archery.
Too many arrows at one time with heavy poundage can cause untold amounts of damage to one's self.
Cat

Hi Canuck...why not mount a Limbsaver recoil pad on you GGun? You can also get a Past pad that you wear on your shoulder for extended shoots at the range. The combo will run you less than $100.00

[Rusty P. Bucket]

Yup. Those Guide Guns are rude little SOB's with full power loads. I will shoot no more than a dozen of them at the range. These things can and will turn you into a flinching idiot if you let them.

The only way to shoot well is if you can relax and concentrate. If you can't do that you are probably shooting too much gun.

[Win94]

I am shooting 405 grainers out of my Guidegun at 1985 fps on average. Realisticaly though, the old 405 grain load of 1300 fps used to drop buffalo back in the day so i am not too sure if one reallly has to run a Guidegun that hot to get results.

[ABwhitetail]

Ohhhh....the Past sissy pad makes a huge difference!!!!

I recently purchased one....and makes range time MUCH more pleasant......

[Win94]

I am sure it does but i like to practice without those type of aids just as if i was hunting. My delt is one big sissy pad.

[bingo1010]

i think the key is just to shoot lots, when i used to shoot a 270 i was afraid of my friends 300 mag. then when i shot it i thought no way will i ever own one of them. a couple years later when i was looking to strecth my shooting ability i bought a 300. now that is my go to gun. i shoot on average 300-500 rounds through just my 300 a year. now when i pull the trigger on a 270 i find i shoot it a lot better ( than i used to) because the recoil is much less than a 300. stock design and fit plays a huge role as mentioned as well. i must admit though the hardest gun to shoot accurately i have at this time would be my 30-06 titanium with an ultralight scope on it, not so much because of the recoil ( it does kick though) but more so because it jumps so much. after a couple groups off the bench i find myself wanting to jerk the trigger rather than concentrate on a smooth pull. but that is the price i am willing to pay for a light gun in the high country. recoil control and management is a learned trait, the only way to do it is to shoot....lots.

[Win94]

Bingo you are so right. I find if i go a while with no practice, that little Guidegun can be a bit5 bothersome. After 20 or so rounds i settle down into a comfort zone. If i keep up with it a couple times every two weeks or so, its like i never stopped shooting it and its quite comfortable.

[nekred]

One of the worst kicking guns i ever had was a 12 gauge ultralite shotgun that I used for goose hunting. It knocked me right out of the shooting chair when shooting geese.

I now use a 10 gauge bolt action but it is in a heavy gun (The bolt weighs 2 pounds) and recoil with it is quite manageable. My father in law was putting on shoulder pads for his 12 gauge super manum which used 3.5 inch shells. After using my 10 gauge i tried his and it kickedthe hell out of me.

When it comes to recoil gun weight makes a huge difference. if it has heavy recoil put it in a heavy gun.

I have modified my 270 AI by leading the butt and it is very enjoyable to shoot and it balances nice.

I have used a .338 that has very nice low recoil and a 7mm that kicks like a mule. i find that stock weight, geometry, fit and also headspacing al make a difference to perceived recoil. Instead of a kick a fast push is far more comfortable.

It is not how much recoil there is but how it is transfered that makes the difference.

[ABwhitetail]

Originally Posted by Win94

I am sure it does but i like to practice without those type of aids just as if i was hunting. My delt is one big sissy pad.

I agree, it is good to practice as closely to possible as you would be shooting the rifle in the field.....

That is where the past pad is so nice....It doesn't change anything....it is VERY representative of an actual hunting scenario....

It is maybe a 1/4" thick and covers a portion of your shoulder...basically spreading out the recoil over a large area compared to just the butt plate...

clothing differences from summer to fall...account for more of a variable...

Bottom line...is if you do shoot a rifle where the recoil causes you to develop a inadvertent flinch....your shooting form is going in the wrong direction....if you can utilize something like a Past pad to allow you to shoot more often and more comfortably...your going to be a better shooter....Either that or find a caliber of lesser recoil that you can shoot (but that is getting off topic)

It isn't very often when you pull the trigger on a animal you feel the recoil....it is really only at the range where the problem exists...and IMO the past pad is a good aid in not only helping out form, but in proteting the shooter from possible injury.....

[Win94]

Good points. When you bust an animal the last thing you feel is recoil.

[ABwhitetail]

Originally Posted by Win94

Good points. When you bust an animal the last thing you feel is recoil.

Its funny how that is....but I guess its a good indication of how exciting hunting is.....

[Canuck44]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

The answer lies in not shooting repeatably, but taking time between shots for you body to "cool down" , PROPER fitting rifles with top quality recoil pads, and working up to the big stuff slowly.

Cat

Good idea, I havn't been taking time between shots to relax, I am sure that would help. A couple of times I have left the crossbolt safety on by accident and shot the gun, this really shows how much I anticipate the shot and how tense I get when shooting.

I think I will try an additional slip on recoil pad as well, or one of those shoulder pads for extended shooting sessions.

How much time do you take to unwind between shots? Do you get up and stretch of just take a minute to relax?

[Win94]

I always bring a .22 rimfire and plink with that in between. Gives the guns a chance to cool down and you still get to shoot.

[Faststeel]

I have one of the Limbsaver shoulder pads. And to look at it you would not think that it would work, but mine works great. Never go to the range with out it. FS

[Gunner22a]

Whatever hurts you or causes you to flinch. Personally the less the better for me. Too much tends to throw mw off the target and if the first one didn't do the trick I don't need to waste time finding the target again. My .06 and 270 are fine for me. Fired my buddies 300 mag and it felt like a mule just got me. No thanks.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Canuck44

Good idea, I havn't been taking time between shots to relax, I am sure that would help. A couple of times I have left the crossbolt safety on by accident and shot the gun, this really shows how much I anticipate the shot and how tense I get when shooting.

I think I will try an additional slip on recoil pad as well, or one of those shoulder pads for extended shooting sessions.

How much time do you take to unwind between shots? Do you get up and stretch of just take a minute to relax?

I streatch often during practice, but during a match that is not possible.
Shooters often when standing use a rifle rest on their scope stand to take the weight of the rifle when they are resting.
When shooting prone rifles, there is a small bipod you can buy that goes ahead of your sling.
You can rest the riflle on the ground then without releasing sling tension.

A ten shot string should actually ttake no less than 2 minutes a shot to take to ensure your muscles return to normal after each shot.
Cat

[Rugersingle]

First thing I do at the range, after unpacking the truck , is slip on a PAST pad. Typical day is 4-5 hrs, 4-5 CF rifles, 100+ rnds and the 10/22 for "stress relief" while allowing for cleaning and bbl cooling. For the bigger bore toys, I also use a slip on limb saver pad. Ya can still fell it a bit the next day but try 510 max loads in the 458 without something and you will have problems.. the good news is "nothin" kicks after a few of those big boys
I never wear the pad in the field and never have any problems or shot placement issues. Practise makes it all flow smoothly when the chips are down..

[Young Eldon]

You will know you’re in serious trouble when you start to see white flashes at each blast. Some shooters mistake them for mussel flash even during bright sunshine. They can actually be caused by the retina in your eye being detached from the back of the eyeball. I have only met one guy that was having this happen at a range in Alaska. He was shooting a 500 + something cartridge in a bolt action that weight about 13 pounds. The cartridges were only slightly smaller than coke bottles.

[Big Buff]

Originally Posted by Young Eldon

The cartridges were only slightly smaller than coke bottles.

Sounds like my kind of gun!!!

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Big Buff

Sounds like my kind of gun!!!

Old badger has a very cool Brno in 450 Ackely, and awesome tank of a rifle with a mannlicher stock.
The case is about as blown out that you can go with the 375H&H to 450.

This thing rocks, and is very accurate.
I don't shoot it anymore however.

Cat

[sinawalli]

I have a 45-70 Marlin with the 22" barrel, and shoot 415 gr. hardcast round at 1900 fps. I use a Limbsaver, and have no problem firing 3-4 boxes of shells at the range. My brother has a GG and shoots the same round as well with no problem. I find my .280 Rem. Mountain rifle kicks a lot harder!! I found a recoil chart somewhere on the net, and it stated that anything over 19 foot pounds of recoil will cause a flinch. That's about equilvalent to a 12 guage.

[Pioneer2]

Why shoot till it hurts? The groups go all to hell and you are only cultivating a nice flinch!Never mind the macho crap.Enjoy a box of shells at the range per visit with the heavy kickers and switch to something more pleasant.To grit your teeth and keep on hammering away thinking your conditioning yourself is rediculous.You can desensitize yourself with moderation and get someone else to load it at the range so you don't know if it's loaded and try shooting to see if you are developing a flinch.I've seen good shots wildly contort anticipating recoil when the hammer drops on an empty chamber.Most people are better off with a gun they can shoot well.African PH 's nightmare is a client that shows up with a new monster magnum and the origonal box of shells to hunt something that will kill you if you mess up..............JMO....................Harold

[Canuck44]

I have also been shooting a lot of 405 gr cast loaded to 1300-1400 fps as they are nice cheap for plinking and don't kick badly. Has anyone used loads like this on big game and how do they perform? Is this load sufficient for elk, moose and bear to 150 yrds if I can place the shot in the boiler room?

[catnthehat]

The hard cast we use are a bit heavier, 460 IIRC.
Cat

[Pioneer2]

The 405 cast at 1300 fps or so wiped out a lot of bison................Harold

[Canuck44]

Just ran a 405 cast through a ballistics calculator. With a muzzle velocity of 1400fps and sighted in at 125 yrds it is within 4" at all points out to 150 yrds and has a velocity of 1121 fps and 1130lbft of energy. By comparison the 350gr jacketted bullet at 2100fps keeps it within 4" out to 200 yrds and has over 1500lbft of energy at 200 yrds. Basically an extra 50-60 yrds out of the gun but double the recoil and triple the price per shot.

[LuckySeven]

I'd try the limbsaver and if you want softer........mercury recoil reducer !!!