Do you think all sheep should be on a draw?

[Dark Wing]

Here's an idea, put the first half of the season on draw and the last half on a general tag. Although I don't see anything wrong with the way it is now.

[LongDraw]

Getting back to the draw idea;
I hunted sheep in Canmore when there was no draw in the late season and I belive the draw has made it more difficult to kill a ram, 50 tags available now on draw and when a guy pulls a tag he hunts hard!

Maybe there are more serious sheep hunters now, but it seemed there was no more pressure on those rams when it was a general tag in November in 410, Who knows? I think a bigger reason for the 410 draw was to limit the hunter visibility in Canmore, most guys just glass off the road.

All a draw would do is unneccesarily limit guys to hunting sheep every 4 or so years, the guys who actually get drawn will pound on it way harder because the are "drawn", guys who would never normally buy a tag would put in for the draw just because it is on draw.

As far as an age restriction goes; A legal ram in Alberta is a minimum 5-6 years old. That is old when you look at how many ram lambs are born and actually make it to 5 or 6 years old.

Why limit it to one or two a lifetime when this would also have no effect on the age stucture or hunting pressure?

Seems guys either figure sheep hunting out and have success, or never figure it out. Bottom line is you work you azz off and you will eventually have success. Luck is what you make of it.

Seems guys either figure sheep hunting out and have success, or never figure it out. Bottom line is you work you azz off and you will eventually have success. Luck is what you make of it.

Truer words were never spoken!

My first day ever hunting sheep i was within a few hundred metres (one hump) of a book ram when someone else shot him. Since then i have seen a few legal rams but never taken a shot, most have disappeared into a no hunting area before i had a chance to cut the distance by a few miles. I like the idea of a 5 year wait instead of a 2 year wait after shooing a ram.
I talked to a guy two years ago (while hunting) that had taken 18 rams in his lifetime (older guy), none of any size is how he put it. Now if you had to wait 5 years you may not shoot the first squeaker you see increasing the number of sheep that grow up and you may also find bigger rams. I don't like the draw idea as in other districts (US) it seems to turn into a once in a lifetime opportunity. And ewes are always there for meat for all those sheep hunters relying on rams to fill the freezer .

[sheep nut]

Some say that draws won't work. I don't see how they can't work. You take 4500 anual sheep hunters and let them hunt a sheep every 3 years. Thats 1500 hunters a year. You split thet up over 32 zones that have sheep and you only have 32 hunters per zone instead of 32 hunters in 1 valley!
How can this not grow more therefore bigger sheep.

[Pathfinder76]

I for one am pretty excited about 32 sheephunters in one valley. Kept them outa my way.

It's hard to really save people from themselves sometimes.....................

I'm not sure I've ever seen more than four people in one valley but I do work at avoiding crowds.

Originally Posted by sheep nut

Some say that draws won't work. I don't see how they can't work. You take 4500 anual sheep hunters and let them hunt a sheep every 3 years. Thats 1500 hunters a year. You split thet up over 32 zones that have sheep and you only have 32 hunters per zone instead of 32 hunters in 1 valley!
How can this not grow more therefore bigger sheep.

You are likely right that some zones could benefit from draw...it sure works in Montana. Other than a few big rams, we sure take a back seat to them in the trophy department. I'd be okay with some draws in limited WMUs but I'd never want to see it province wide. Manage a few WMUs for high trophy quality and only give out a few tags but leave the rest of the province general...ya I could live with that. Give me the opportunity to draw one tag in a lifetime in a specially managed WMU where my chances at a 180+ ram are high and I could be talked into a few draw zones. Montana has managed to blend the general and draw areas but it sure increases the pressure in the general areas. That's why I think only a few draw WMUs and keep the general pressure spread out as it is now.

[LongDraw]

Originally Posted by sheep nut

Some say that draws won't work. I don't see how they can't work. You take 4500 anual sheep hunters and let them hunt a sheep every 3 years. Thats 1500 hunters a year. You split thet up over 32 zones that have sheep and you only have 32 hunters per zone instead of 32 hunters in 1 valley!
How can this not grow more therefore bigger sheep.

Sheepnut,

Problem is the 4500 annual sheephunters turn into probably over 20,000 people putting in for the draw. Now you can hunt sheep every 15 years! I hope you are young! 15 years is a long wait.

There are sheep dying in the general zones of old age...

We already have zones that draw for bighorns. Those are enough for me.

[sheep nut]

As far as going back farther in or deeper into sheep country. This is Alberta's problem. Other than a few valleys in the Wilmore,there's nowhere that I can't take my packstring as far as you can go in 1 day's ride. ( 12 hrs)

[sheep nut]

That 4500 are people buying sheep tags now. However that number is a few years old , but I understand hunter nubers are dropping.

Originally Posted by sheep nut

That 4500 are people buying sheep tags now. However that number is a few years old , but I understand hunter nubers are dropping.

Actually hunter numbers have been going up the past couple years...not sure about sheep hunters but there was a 4.8% increase in hunter numbers in 2007 over 2006.

[sheep nut]

Well thats good news. I'm doing my part. My kids love to go into the hills with me. My daughter will be 14 next year and we'll hunt she want's a sheep bad!

[LongDraw]

Originally Posted by sheep nut

That 4500 are people buying sheep tags now. However that number is a few years old , but I understand hunter nubers are dropping.

If It was only a 3 year wait to get a tag it would not be that bad. The problem is once you put it on draw everyone will want to do it, or have regret that they didn't do it when it was a general tag. The numbers that would put in for a sheep draw if it went Province wide would be five fold of the number of tags they now sell.

How many non-bowhunters do you think put in for the 408 draw? I personally know of 4 guys that put in for it that say they will buy a bow if they get the tag. Same kind of theory I have about non-sheep hunters putting in if it went all draw. They will have good intentions to sheep hunt when they get drawn. I am sure most of those good intentions will be gone after the first mountain they climb...

Originally Posted by sheep nut

Well thats good news. I'm doing my part. My kids love to go into the hills with me. My daughter will be 14 next year and we'll hunt she want's a sheep bad!

Well I sure hope she has some good luck! If I had a pack string that was anxious to go, I'd be heading into the Willmore. Guarantee you'll never see 27 people in a basin on opening day there. Lots of hidden jewels out there, even in the middle of the crowds...half the fun is finding them!

Originally Posted by LongDraw

If It was only a 3 year wait to get a tag it would not be that bad. The problem is once you put it on draw everyone will want to do it, or have regret that they didn't do it when it was a general tag. The numbers that would put in for a sheep draw if it went Province wide would be five fold of the number of tags they now sell.

How many non-bowhunters do you think put in for the 408 draw? I personally know of 4 guys that put in for it that say they will buy a bow if they get the tag. Same kind of theory I have about non-sheep hunters putting in if it went all draw. They will have good intentions to sheep hunt when they get drawn. I am sure most of those good intentions will be gone after the first mountain they climb...

Ya, I know a few guys that have drawn but never even hunted...ugh!

[Frans]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I'm not sure I've ever seen more than four people in one valley but I do work at avoiding crowds.

Met five, and was told about two more in one valley on opening day this year.
Was told about 8 being in another valley which would have been my first choice, ran into a pack string in there later in the season (dozen horses or so, picking up clients). Previous years I have been good in avoiding crowds, but this year (2007) no matter what I did I found people.

Frans

[bullgetter]

Sheep on draw province wide. No non-residents allowed. I would think you would get drawn every 3 years in most areas. I went for a dall sheep in 2005 and that was a sheep hunt. In Alberta I'm to worried about others wrecking my hunt to enjoy myself. I went into Wilmore opening week this year and was disgusted with all the people. Not my idea of a wilderness hunt.

[LongDraw]

Originally Posted by bullgetter

Sheep on draw province wide. No non-residents allowed. I would think you would get drawn every 3 years in most areas. I went for a dall sheep in 2005 and that was a sheep hunt. In Alberta I'm to worried about others wrecking my hunt to enjoy myself. I went into Wilmore opening week this year and was disgusted with all the people. Not my idea of a wilderness hunt.

Were you a resident where you went on your Dall hunt?

[bullgetter]

No I was a non-resident when I went to the NWT. I see what you are getting at but it's supply and demand. We have more resident hunters then number of rams and I believe residents come first.

[ABwhitetail]

Originally Posted by LongDraw

If It was only a 3 year wait to get a tag it would not be that bad. The problem is once you put it on draw everyone will want to do it, or have regret that they didn't do it when it was a general tag. The numbers that would put in for a sheep draw if it went Province wide would be five fold of the number of tags they now sell.

How many non-bowhunters do you think put in for the 408 draw? I personally know of 4 guys that put in for it that say they will buy a bow if they get the tag. Same kind of theory I have about non-sheep hunters putting in if it went all draw. They will have good intentions to sheep hunt when they get drawn. I am sure most of those good intentions will be gone after the first mountain they climb...

I haven't begun my sheep hunting as of yet, but trust me, it is on my list of things to do. That being said I realize exactly what kind of commitment it takes to be successful. So currently I do not buy a tag, and do not apply for any (sheep draws).....I am just not ready. BUT, if the province were to go on a sheep wide draw...you better believe I would be placing my WIN# in the mix and fast track my scouting, training, and time spent in the mountains....

So I agree, I think putting the sheep on draw would increase the number of draw applicants, which would increase the # of year wait to draw a tag, which would keep you guys whom are serious sheep hunters out of the mountains (well maybe I went a little far there). Bottom line, not being an expert, my personal feelings are that there is a small percentage of sheep hunters whom have the knowledge and skill (and luck) to take sheep on a consistent basis...and from the discussion I see here, it seems majority of you are happy to manage sheep (in terms of trophies) through selective harvest....

So I am not sure if there really is a "major" problem here????

[Duk Dog]

Originally Posted by bullgetter

Sheep on draw province wide. No non-residents allowed. I would think you would get drawn every 3 years in most areas. I went for a dall sheep in 2005 and that was a sheep hunt. In Alberta I'm to worried about others wrecking my hunt to enjoy myself. I went into Wilmore opening week this year and was disgusted with all the people. Not my idea of a wilderness hunt.

If we look at non-resident Canadians applying through the draw process for hunting sheep in Alberta - there are only 2 of these tags issued every year.

[Simpatico Outdoors]

I agree with you ABwhitetail,
If there is committment to implement selective harverst in your success than the quality of the sheep should remain or increase to even greater value. Of course that does not rule out winter kill, predation & other forms of disease.

Right now i think AB is the only province in North America with a general wild sheep permit for residents. This must be in relation to the responsible management from all parties involved thus far from Hunters to Biologists & Conservation groups.

What is the problem, why a province wide draw? Some WMU's for sure, based on specific issues only though.

Simpatico

Originally Posted by bullgetter

Sheep on draw province wide. No non-residents allowed. I would think you would get drawn every 3 years in most areas. I went for a dall sheep in 2005 and that was a sheep hunt. In Alberta I'm to worried about others wrecking my hunt to enjoy myself. I went into Wilmore opening week this year and was disgusted with all the people. Not my idea of a wilderness hunt.

Funny how that works. I spent 10 days in the Willmore this year and never saw a soul but did see plenty of sheep. Hunted the Wilmore lots in the past and ran into three guys once back six or seven years ago. Have never seen anyone else though.

Originally Posted by Simpatico Outdoors

I agree with you ABwhitetail,
If there is committment to implement selective harverst in your success than the quality of the sheep should remain or increase to even greater value. Of course that does not rule out winter kill, predation & other forms of disease.

Right now i think AB is the only province in North America with a general wild sheep permit for residents. This must be in relation to the responsible management from all parties involved thus far from Hunters to Biologists & Conservation groups.

What is the problem, why a province wide draw? Some WMU's for sure, based on specific issues only though.

Simpatico

BC, NWT, Yukon and Montana all have general wild sheep permit for residents.

I don't see any advantage to a province-wide draw. A few select WMUs managed for trophy yes but putting every WMU on draw will accomplish nothing except taking a bunch of hunters out of the field for no reason.

[pika]

Originally Posted by sheep nut

Some say that draws won't work. I don't see how they can't work. You take 4500 anual sheep hunters and let them hunt a sheep every 3 years. Thats 1500 hunters a year. You split thet up over 32 zones that have sheep and you only have 32 hunters per zone instead of 32 hunters in 1 valley!
How can this not grow more therefore bigger sheep.

s

[Torkdiesel]

Putting all WMU's on draw would definitly spread the hunting out more. And you wouldn't have 100 guys standing on the mine boundary on oct 25-31. I would force people to spread out and work for the easier zones to get drawn in. Look at the Mule deer in the Peace region. Yah the draw realy killed the hunting there. Where else would you pick to kill a 200" deer every 3 years

[ABwhitetail]

I am not sure you can compare management for big (trophy) rams to that of Antlered Mule deer when discussing the effectiveness of a strategy like a draw system. I think the two are too vastly different and live in totally different habitats....

Originally Posted by ABwhitetail

I am not sure you can compare management for big (trophy) rams to that of Antlered Mule deer when discussing the effectiveness of a strategy like a draw system. I think the two are too vastly different and live in totally different habitats....

Ya, I gotta agree with you ABwhitetail but Montana sure seems to have a system of draw and general sheep tags figured out and Alberta pales in comparison to the trophies they produce. I agree that I'd like to have a chance at more big sheep but I also want to hunt every year. There are lots of nice mature rams (8 years) and areas with virtually no hunting pressure in Alberta and I think sheep hunters should be able to enjoy those on a general tag but trying to manage a few high-quality trophy zones that you'd maybe only draw once in a lifetime...I'd be okay with that.

For guys that are constantly fighting crowds and not seeing mature rams, the only advice I can offer is to try a new area because there are lots of sheep hunters that see good rams every year and virtually no hunters. Seems to me if guys were willing to do a bit of exploring rather than hitting the traditional sheep spots that everyone seems to know that we could spread the pressure out pretty well without putting the entire province on draw.

All of my best secrets have been found by accident just hiking and riding areas that I knew nothing about!

[ABwhitetail]

I hear what your saying sheep.....and I agree.

If we want to compare how a draw system could be beneficial, and one to model it after....then the Montana "Sheep draw system" would be a great place to start....

I definitley think that would be THE KEY; to look at a place like Montana and see how it works, why it works, and then see if it translates (and what modifications would be necessary) into our neck of the woods.