Reliable cheap on fuel 4x4 that is woman friendly?

[W921]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Absolutely spot on. My first car was a 54 Ford flat head followed by the high output Dodge Royal push button hemi. In their day, they were the shizzel and I was one cool Cat that all the girls wanted to ride, (with). I could fix pretty much anything with 4 wrenches, a screw driver and a vacuum guage. At 80,000 miles they were done and if you ever got 100,000 miles you were a legend. In comparison to todays vehicles not even close in performance, the 426 blown hemi GTX wouldn't come close to my Lexus, forget about a Viper, in the 0 to 60 mph time, let alone longevity. My last Lexus went 400,000 klms with nothing but maintenance, my 1970 Charger was dead at 120,000 miles and the cost to extend its life far exceeded the cars value. Thank god they don't make them like they used to.

70 charger is stupid money to buy right now. You wouldn't believe what wrecks are currently being restored. Lexus like all other plastic cars with here to the moon wiring won't be around in years to come but surviving 100 year old chargers will be.
Electronics and plastic ages out. Everything wired together makes diagnosis so hard after so many years. Making everything as complicated as possible just makes everything more trouble than its worth at a certain point to repair and replace. What are shops charging now an hour? Will ad up like crazy if you are hiring it done.

[W921]

If you compare trucks to guns.

I dont even look at new pistols because 1911 colt is perfect but say I was in market for a pistol.
Why not improve the colt and put electronic trigger on it. Why not computerize whole gun? Make it a smart gun that can tell who is using it. Keeps track of how many shots,where and when. Keeps track and records location like on star on new trucks. Maybe shoots only new modern case less non reloadable ammunition. Progress?

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by W921

If you compare trucks to guns.

I dont even look at new pistols because 1911 colt is perfect but say I was in market for a pistol.
Why not improve the colt and put electronic trigger on it. Why not computerize whole gun? Make it a smart gun that can tell who is using it. Keeps track of how many shots,where and when. Keeps track and records location like on star on new trucks. Maybe shoots only new modern case less non reloadable ammunition. Progress?

To some this is progress but on the same note not to others.

1911 colt is nice but I prefer the S&W model 629 classic 5”...44mag.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by W921

If you compare trucks to guns.

I dont even look at new pistols because 1911 colt is perfect but say I was in market for a pistol.
Why not improve the colt and put electronic trigger on it. Why not computerize whole gun? Make it a smart gun that can tell who is using it. Keeps track of how many shots,where and when. Keeps track and records location like on star on new trucks. Maybe shoots only new modern case less non reloadable ammunition.
Progress?

You are ignoring the fact that new vehicles are producing double the hourspower and twice the fuel economy that they did in the 70s. Fuel injection, electronic ignitions and things like variable valve timing , and turbocharging have allowed this to happen, but they are more complicated.
To compare that to firearms, it would be like inventing a new propellant that provides double the velocity, with half the throat erosion, but that requires a more complicated loading procedure, at a higher cost.
Yes some of us might choose to stick with what we have, but most would gladly accept the extra cost for such a huge increase in performance.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

You are ignoring the fact that new vehicles are producing double the hourspower and twice the fuel economy that they did in the 70s. Fuel injection, electronic ignitions and things like variable valve timing , and turbocharging have allowed this to happen, but they are more complicated.
To compare that to firearms, it would be like inventing a new propellant that provides double the velocity, with half the throat erosion, but that requires a more complicated loading procedure, at a higher cost.
Yes some of us might choose to stick with what we have, but most would gladly accept the extra cost for such a huge increase in performance.

Most don’t have the skill set to trim toe nails let alone work on a vehicle but then again lift the hood on your new ride…..good god!
I use to sit in the wheel well and change plugs etc or lay on my back and change out a starter, water pump but today well we just phone the shop and book it in.
We did buy a code reader which has saved us literally thousands of dollars over the years and toss in YouTube vids help too.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Most don’t have the skill set to trim toe nails let alone work on a vehicle but then again lift the hood on your new ride…..good god!
I use to sit in the wheel well and change plugs etc or lay on my back and change out a starter, water pump but today well we just phone the shop and book it in.
We did buy a code reader which has saved us literally thousands of dollars over the years and toss in YouTube vids help too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

True, but that is the cost of getting double the power, for half of the fuel consumed. I don't like a lot of the electronics nonsense that add nothing to the performance of the vehicle, and I avoid ordering them if they are options, but I do appreciate the extra power and
fuel economy.

[W921]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

True, but that is the cost of getting double the power, for half of the fuel consumed. I don't like a lot of the electronics nonsense that add nothing to the performance of the vehicle, and I avoid ordering them if they are options, but I do appreciate the extra power and
fuel economy.

There is another aspect to this. To me it seems crazy to spend huge money on something I think is ugly. Basically everything now a days looks pretty much the same!e and to me it's not pretty.
Again compare to guns. Some guns are beautiful. Wall hangers that just give me pleasure to look at. Sort of like how some people would look at art.
A vehicle should be the same way. Its not just about transportation. Plus all basically look a like that I'm not sure how people find their truck in a Costco parking lot. Haha

[W921]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

To some this is progress but on the same note not to others.

1911 colt is nice but I prefer the S&W model 629 classic 5”...44mag.

To me when I think of a 44 magnum I always think of dirty harry. I wouldn't be looking to buy some modern version.
Maybe its a age thing but I like the same stuff now that I liked years ago. The new versions just don't do anything for me.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by W921

There is another aspect to this. To me it seems crazy to spend huge money on something I think is ugly. Basically everything now a days looks pretty much the same!e and to me it's not pretty.
Again compare to guns. Some guns are beautiful. Wall hangers that just give me pleasure to look at. Sort of like how some people would look at art.
A vehicle should be the same way. Its not just about transportation. Plus all basically look a like that I'm not
sure how people find their truck in a Costco parking lot. Haha

I buy vehicles to drive, and firearms to shoot, they are tools to me. I won't sacrifice perfomance for looks ,but I do avoid certain cosmetic treatments that add no performance, but cost extra money. As to why vehicles tend to look alike, it's because the manufacturers have discovered which designs get the best mileage, and that is a huge factor in vehicle sales. And they also are legislated to meet certain fuel economy standards across their vehicle lines, which further dictates design.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by W921

If you compare trucks to guns.

I dont even look at new pistols because 1911 colt is perfect but say I was in market for a pistol.
Why not improve the colt and put electronic trigger on it. Why not computerize whole gun? Make it a smart gun that can tell who is using it. Keeps track of how many shots,where and when. Keeps track and records location like on star on new trucks. Maybe shoots only new modern case less non reloadable ammunition. Progress?

Hahahahaha I find this post ironic. You talk about simple and then post about the 1911 being simple and perfect. No, it is an extremely complicated pistol compared to its single action older brothers.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Hahahahaha I find this post ironic. You talk about simple and then post about the 1911 being simple and perfect. No, it is an extremely complicated pistol compared to its single action older brothers.

The 1911 has 3 safeties, overkill at it's finest.

[W921]

There is nothing new about squeezing extreme horsepower out of small engines. Indianapolis 500 cars 50 year's ago were doing this. But a Indy car has a whole team of mechanics to make it last through the race. You can't buy a Indy car and just turn the key and drive it everyday back in forth to work or as a work truck because it won't last.
These modern eco boost style engines are basically just going to be a nightmare down the road after warrantee is gone. To much that's to complicated that's maxed out from the start and not built heavy enough to last.
With farm equipment everything is getting so complicated that not only do you have to be a technician but you are basically only trained and have equipment to work at one brand of equipment. You can't just go next door and work for a different dealer. Everything is planned obsolescence and made sdo farmer can't touch.
There is one company called big bud that is restarting to make farm tractor's. There niche or market model is to make equipment that farmers can maintain and repair at home. I hope they succeed and force other manufacturers to change.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by W921

There is nothing new about squeezing extreme horsepower out of small engines. Indianapolis 500 cars 50 year's ago were doing this. But a Indy car has a whole team of mechanics to make it last through the race. You can't buy a Indy car and just turn the key and drive it everyday back in forth to work or as a work truck because it won't last.
These modern eco boost style engines are basically just going to be a nightmare down the road after warrantee is gone. To much that's to complicated that's maxed out
from the start and not built heavy enough to last.
With farm equipment everything is getting so complicated that not only do you have to be a technician
but you are basically only trained and have equipment to
work at one brand of equipment. You can't just go next
door and work for a different dealer. Everything is
planned obsolescence and made sdo farmer can't touch
.There is one company called big bud that is restarting to make farm tractor's. There niche or market model is to make equipment that farmers can maintain and repair at
home. I hope they succeed and force other
manufacturers to change.

The 400hp ecoboost that you get in an F150 is a far cry from being" maxed out". The 3.5 ecoboost in the 2019 Ford GT puts out 647hp, and that is a sreet engine that was covered by warranty. The 400hp ecoboost actually has a fairly conservative tune to greatly increase reliability.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by W921

There is one company called big bud that is restarting to make farm tractor's. There niche or market model is to make equipment that farmers can maintain and repair at home. I hope they succeed and force other manufacturers to change.

Interesting. They were built in Montana were they not?
Hope they have success

[Twisted Canuck]

[KGB]

I don’t know where you are but I just saw a few ads on Marketplace for a 2012 Acura MDX with a low mileage asking price was $3K… That’s a steal of a deal for that vehicle!

[W921]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The 400hp ecoboost that you get in an F150 is a far cry from being" maxed out". The 3.5 ecoboost in the 2019 Ford GT puts out 647hp, and that is a sreet engine that was covered by warranty. The 400hp ecoboost actually has a fairly conservative tune to greatly increase reliability.

Top fuel dragster's and funny cars get 12,000 HP out of v8 s all the time but they don't last.
On other end of spectrum inline 6 diesels from 50 years ago like 855 Cummins or 237 mack. Well I'm not sure what it would take to kill them. If one dies I will let you know. But routinely would go 800,000 km would be my guess because they front die. Overbuilt heck out of them. My grandfather had a fordson major tractor in the fifties. Used to let it run all winter because would be hard tyo start in cold. Tractor still going to this day.
I have to finish this post later

[W921]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The 400hp ecoboost that you get in an F150 is a far cry from being" maxed out". The 3.5 ecoboost in the 2019 Ford GT puts out 647hp, and that is a sreet engine that was covered by warranty. The 400hp ecoboost actually has a fairly conservative tune to greatly increase reliability.

I did a quick Google search on eco boost common problems. They claim ignition problems and say will last 300,000.
I call bull crap on that because I know from actual real people that on way lower than that mileage trucks they have injector problems, cracked exhaust manifolds not too mention sensors that go and all this stuff is expensive because way trucks are made it takes forever just to get to anything. All of this is above average owner so you are paying a shop probably a crazy hourly rate to fix this stuff.
The more you crank up a certain size engine the less longevity you will get out of it. All these sensors you replace cost money and miles of wiring and electrical connections corpse and cause misery and grief to guy that's trying to figure out electrical issues. Computers and all these ad one to a motor eventually age out. The more simple the less to go wrong.

[W921]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Interesting. They were built in Montana were they not?
Hope they have success

They were in Montana. Went bankrupt if I remember right the electronic transmission that they sourced for tractor was full of problems so warranty was costing them plus they couldn't build new tractors because had no transmission capable of standing up behind that big KT Cummins.
New outfit is in Georgia USA.

[Twisted Canuck]

They just don't make em like they used to. Steam is still the best.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by W921

The more you crank up a certain size engine the less longevity you will get out of it. All these sensors you replace cost money and miles of wiring and electrical connections corpse and cause misery and grief to guy that's trying to figure out electrical issues. Computers and all these ad one to a motor eventually age out. The more simple the less to go wrong.

I can appreciate simpler designs like you are saying but electronics have made things even more simple. Look at a modern diesel compared to an old mechanical. If we want to talk diesels, a D342 was a HUGE and heavy engine that made about 300HP give or take. They rarely exceeded 10,000 hrs without major interventions. The “four and a quarter” Cat made about 50% more HP at probably close to 50% the weight. Those engines were the beginnings of the Rotella T million mile guarantees. Then moving to a C-15 (pre-emissions) we were 575HP and lighter than the 425 again and those engines ran forever. No mechanical governor, no fuel lines cracking, no exhaust studs breaking, no warping valve covers. They were just plain superior to either in every way.

If you can actually rebuild a carb and properly set jets, floats and mixtures using a vacuum gauge. Or properly set dwell and gap on a points ignition you could learn to troubleshoot a digital sensor in about 11 minutes. Electrical is soooo easy as soon as you decide to educate yourself. A computer is nothing but switches. There is no magic. If you can rebuild or repair an old mechanical governor and injection pump and then work on an electric unit injector and tell me the old way is better, I will be dumb-founded.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

They just don't make em like they used to. Steam is still the best.

HahahahahHaha

You kids and your freakin steam!!!!!

My old mule can do anything that contraption can.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by W921

I did a quick Google search on eco boost common problems. They claim ignition problems and say will last 300,000.
I call bull crap on that because I know from actual real people that on way lower than that mileage trucks they have injector problems, cracked exhaust manifolds not too mention sensors that go and all this stuff is expensive because way trucks are made it takes forever just to get to anything. All of this is above average owner so you are paying a shop probably a crazy hourly rate to
fix this stuff.
The more you crank up a certain size engine the less longevity you will get out of it. All these sensors you replace cost money and miles of wiring and electrical
connections corpse and cause misery and grief to guy
that's trying to figure out electrical issues. Computers
and all these ad one to a motor eventually age out. The
more simple the less to go wrong.

The early ecoboosts were a nightmare, but the one good thing about staying with a design for over a decade, is that you have plenty of time to make changes, to deal with issues. Yes you could make a simple 1970s engine today, but it would make half the power, and get half the fuel economy, so nobody would buy them. Toyota built the most reliable pickup in the last couple of decades, from 2007 through 2021,but for 2022, they finally had to go to new technology, because they couldn't compete with everyone else for fuel economy. You can have simplicity, or you can have efficiency, but you can't have both.

[Redneck 7]

My vote goes to a f150, they just work. Yeah some years have their problems but be cautious. My 2017 has 372k on it and all I've had break on it was a tail light wire twice. Just regular malignancy, 6k km oil changes and brake pads, spark plugs and the gaskets involved in that.

A jeep would work too but not the best on gas and can be quite pricey, even for replacement parts.

[W921]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

I can appreciate simpler designs like you are saying but electronics have made things even more simple. Look at a modern diesel compared to an old mechanical. If we want to talk diesels, a D342 was a HUGE and heavy engine that made about 300HP give or take. They rarely exceeded 10,000 hrs without major interventions. The “four and a quarter” Cat made about 50% more HP at probably close to 50% the weight. Those engines were the beginnings of the Rotella T million mile guarantees. Then moving to a C-15 (pre-emissions) we were 575HP and lighter than the 425 again and those engines ran forever. No mechanical governor, no fuel lines cracking, no exhaust studs breaking, no warping valve covers. They were just plain superior to either in every way.

If you can actually rebuild a carb and properly set jets, floats and mixtures using a vacuum gauge. Or properly set dwell and gap on a points ignition you could learn to troubleshoot a digital sensor in about 11 minutes. Electrical is soooo easy as soon as you decide to educate yourself. A computer is nothing but switches. There is no magic. If you can rebuild or repair an old mechanical governor and injection pump and then work on an electric unit injector and tell me the old way is better, I will be dumb-founded.

Caterpillar equipment from 60s and 70s was just loved by everyone. I ran a lot of it but I was a operator not owner. I dont remember much ever breaking or anyone ever cursing while repairing them. In big semi trucks cat wasn't common until 70s with 3406 block. In 60s there was a 1693 cat that you could get which is probably a lot like or from the d342 you mentioned. The 1693 like all the old cats you had to idle them down for ten to fifteen minutes before shutdown or you could crack the heads. I dont know if true but I was always warned about this but those cats are legendary motors. In sixties an over the road trucker would most likely stash away from cat because of lack of dealer support on the road but everybody used to love caterpillar. To this day if I see an old cat behind a barn or parked somewhere I get all excited and say to myself someday when I have money I'm going to come back here and try to buy it. Smile
The computers and new stuff is here to stay. Ive resisted as much as possible. Everything keeps changing. Feels like I could study heck out of it and be all up to date but a year later everything all changed again.
You are probably right about computers. I just love the old stuff.

[Twisted Canuck]

I'm just amazed how you can get on a Commodore 64 and post a reply on AO. We sure live in a different world then our grandparents. Imagine banging rocks together to start a fire?

[Big Sky]

You had rocks?!?!?!?

Luxury!

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Big Sky

You had rocks?!?!?!?

Luxury!

Nicely played, love a Monty Python quote.

'But you tell that to kids nowadays and they won't believe you!'