Housing shortage - young people moving back home

[traderal]

Originally Posted by lmtada

Canada isn’t producing enough offspring, to pay for Canada Pension system. It’s literally a Ponzi scheme, needed more and more people to make it work. Government will open doors, borders to make this work (as is happening in Canada, America). Exploit the immigrants for pension contributions, encourage families to have more children (why do think liberals have given so many entitlements to those having families, child care, etc (never existed before except in Quebec)j. Now with $1.3 Trillion dollar debt, and interest rates normalizing. The bill is coming due……

Before Trudeau there was constant fearmongering about the CPP being almost broke, then Trudeau found almost one trillion dollars to squander, and CPP is still almost broke. Liberal math and an excuse to bring in invading hordes and dilute nationalism for the coming world order.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by lmtada

Trades are way to go. Both my nephews, 24, and 26. Both took electrical trade route. Both busy working for contractor in Regina. Both have $500,000.00/ houses. Both are married, and kids. No one helped in purchasing a home. They went school for two years, then jobs immediately out of school. They hang in a group whom all graduated same year, all were hired by same company. Work all over Canada, USA, restoring grids after hurricanes, tornadoes, etc. Best thing they started work, stacking shelves at Coop while in high school. With COVID, they were busy starting there families.

Trades can be great and good for both of them for making it work

But here is the real ? How much of their income is going to payments? Now consider the % of income used to go to the same expense

I can sit here and list many variations of your story but it doesn’t take away from the fact you have to hustle harder now to get by and own a house compared to the past

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Trades can be great and good for both of them for making it work

But here is the real ? How much of their income is going to payments? Now consider the % of income used to go to the same expense

I can sit here and list many variations of your story but it doesn’t take away from the fact you have to hustle harder now to get by and own a house compared to the past

Of course it costs more to own a house now, it always has and always will. I'm not going to crap on Gen Z, Millenials, Gen X (me), or Boomers because so many things are relative.

Boomers definitely didn't all have it easy, most that I know came from very humble roots, worked hard and did without most of the luxuries that we have today to make home ownership possible. Think about it, when they were in their 20's or 30's how many boomers would have had two or three vehicles, a new house with 3 or 4 bedrooms and 2 or 3 bathrooms 4 televisions, an RV, winter vacations in Mexico/Cuba/, boats, atv's, $5 coffee, Skip the Dishes, multiple cell phones etc. etc? Next to none. My parents married young, moved into a two room shack with wood heat, no running water, one vehicle, no TV's no bathrooms (well one outhouse I guess) and this was in the late 60' early 70's. Two bedrooms and a living room were added by my dad and grandfather in about 1971 with lumber that they milled and concrete that they mixed by hand. Indoor plumbing happened in about '75 just before I started school. Many young people would live together as room mates out of high school to save money for their own place (just like a lot of other people have done and still do). Mobile homes were a big thing because they were affordable.

When my parents got to their 30's or into their 40's they started to prosper a bit more and we started to get luxuries like a second vehicle, a color tv, microwave, a three wheeler in 1983, they were probably nearing 40 before they ever flew anywhere in a plane. Just when many were starting to prosper, the NEP came into effect and jobs were scarce, people had 17% mortgages on houses that they had bought and times were pretty grim. The thing is, I didn't think that living that simple was a big deal, because most people lived the same way at the time.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that very few people have gotten a free ride, sacrifices have always had to be made in regards to home ownership, nothing comes for free. So to blame one generation for housing being unaffordable is pretty ludicrous.

P.S. both of my parents worked (and I got a dirt bike when I was 9 and my dad was about 35, so life was good. lol)

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by HVA7mm

Of course it costs more to own a house now, it always has and always will. I'm not going to crap on Gen Z, Millenials, Gen X (me), or Boomers because so many things are relative.

Boomers definitely didn't all have it easy, most that I know came from very humble roots, worked hard and did without most of the luxuries that we have today to make home ownership possible. Think about it, when they were in their 20's or 30's how many boomers would have had two or three vehicles, a new house with 3 or 4 bedrooms and 2 or 3 bathrooms 4 televisions, an RV, winter vacations in Mexico/Cuba/, boats, atv's, $5 coffee, Skip the Dishes, multiple cell phones etc. etc? Next to none. My parents married young, moved into a two room shack with wood heat, no running water, one vehicle, no TV's no bathrooms (well one outhouse I guess) and this was in the late 60' early 70's. Two bedrooms and a living room were added by my dad and grandfather in about 1971 with lumber that they milled and concrete that they mixed by hand. Indoor plumbing happened in about '75 just before I started school. Many young people would live together as room mates out of high school to save money for their own place (just like a lot of other people have done and still do). Mobile homes were a big thing because they were affordable.

When my parents got to their 30's or into their 40's they started to prosper a bit more and we started to get luxuries like a second vehicle, a color tv, microwave, a three wheeler in 1983, they were probably nearing 40 before they ever flew anywhere in a plane. Just when many were starting to prosper, the NEP came into effect and jobs were scarce, people had 17% mortgages on houses that they had bought and times were pretty grim. The thing is, I didn't think that living that simple was a big deal, because most people lived the same way at the time.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that very few people have gotten a free ride, sacrifices have always had to be made in regards to home ownership, nothing comes for free. So to blame one generation for housing being unaffordable is pretty ludicrous.

P.S. both of my parents worked (and I got a dirt bike when I was 9 and my dad was about 35, so life was good. lol)

I have not blamed any generation or said they have had it easier

What I have stated is at the present time housing involves a larger % of household income than it has in the past. Because of this it is a fact that it is more difficult to afford a home. We could also add in the overall living costs are also consuming a larger % of household income than the past

If I went through my family history and even my own past it supports that past generation didn’t have it easy. But this doesn’t change the fact on the present situation.

This problem was created by poor management of our country and poor development planning. This is not the fault of one generation it is just what has created the present day situation

Basic math is what is stating it presently takes a higher % of an average household income to own a home and no matter how hard anyone works the math doesn’t change

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

I have not blamed any generation or said they have had it easier

What I have stated is at the present time housing involves a larger % of household income than it has in the past. Because of this it is a fact that it is more difficult to afford a home. We could also add in the overall living costs are also consuming a larger % of household income than the past

If I went through my family history and even my own past it supports that past generation didn’t have it easy. But this doesn’t change the fact on the present situation.

This problem was created by poor management of our country and poor development planning. This is not the fault of one generation it is just what has created the present day situation

Basic math is what is stating it presently takes a higher % of an average household income to own a home and no matter how hard anyone works the math doesn’t change

My apologies, you absolutely have not blamed any generation (other posters have). I was just trying to make a correlation between needing a higher % of income for home ownership now than in the past, with the standard of the homes and lifestyle that many people expect now compared to the past. It makes sense, as we've been conditioned to become consumers for decades.

There has been a major evolution regarding needs vs wants, but I expect that has always been the case. I think that each generation would have liked to see their kids have a better life than they did, but it has recently become a lot less likely to happen. Unless there are some really drastic and radical policy shifts going forward, things will get worse before they get better.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by HVA7mm

My apologies, you absolutely have not blamed any generation (other posters have). I was just trying to make a correlation between needing a higher % of income for home ownership now than in the past, with the standard of the homes and lifestyle that many people expect now compared to the past. It makes sense, as we've been conditioned to become consumers for decades.

There has been a major evolution regarding needs vs wants, but I expect that has always been the case. I think that each generation would have liked to see their kids have a better life than they did, but it has recently become a lot less likely to happen. Unless there are some really drastic and radical policy shifts going forward, things will get worse before they get better.

All good the joys of forums vs BSing in person things get missed or lost in text

Definitely what some deem as a necessity is very different than it was in the past. As someone who is a cheap bugger ( old habits from starting life broke lol) I shake my head on what some think are must haves. I find it crazy how many people are loaned up and the bank actually owns most of their equity. I am not just talking houses

I see all generations guilty of it

[W921]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

All good the joys of forums vs BSing in person things get missed or lost in text

Definitely what some deem as a necessity is very different than it was in the past. As someone who is a cheap bugger ( old habits from starting life broke lol) I shake my head on what some think are must haves. I find it crazy how many people are loaned up and the bank actually owns most of their equity. I am not just talking houses

I see all generations guilty of it

I think a lot of people spend money on what I consider as waste. Different color fridge, new style furniture, trips,etc
But if someone saved their money in a mattress before covid. Its only worth about half what it was before.
So there is such a thing as good debt. Example land equipment, etc. Everything gone up in price and money you are paying back to the bank is worth half of what you borrowed

[elkhunter11]

Everyone has different priorities, and spends their money on different things. Lifestyle has a huge effect on expenses, smoking, drinking and gambling can be huge expenses ,as can changing vehicles every year, or going on expensive vacations . Some people spend huge amounts on RVs, boats, snowmobiles and motorcycles. Paying high interest rates on credit cards, is a huge expense, yet some people do it every month.
If you make enough to comfortably own a home and pay for food and utilities , and provide transportation, then these types of expenditures may not be an issue, but if you are having trouble paying for the necessities, then you should be looking at reducing these type of expenses.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by W921

I think a lot of people spend money on what I consider as waste. Different color fridge, new style furniture, trips,etc
But if someone saved their money in a mattress before covid. Its only worth about half what it was before.
So there is such a thing as good debt. Example land equipment, etc. Everything gone up in price and money you are paying back to the bank is worth half of what you borrowed

All I am going to say is I have done alright in life and choose to live fairly basic. I have not owed the bank a dime since I was 25 and I haven’t stressed about money in a long time. But I am still a cheap bugger lol

I don’t believe in good debt but I believe in good investment and wise spending

There is times loans are needed but paying unnecessary interest is wasteful. But this is just how I find managing my personal finances and it works for me

[Bushrat]

I dunno, I remember working full time for $3.75 an hour, mortgage rates were 18%, older 2 bedroom bungalow was $50,000, a nothing fancy truck was $7,000. It wasn't a cakewalk back in those days either.

Then we got spoiled with 3-5% mortgages, 0 down 0% vehicle and toy loans, credit cards and debt proliferated, for about 25 years, that got lots of people in over their heads. Personal and gov't debt went through the roof and got us to where we are now.

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

I dunno, I remember working full time for $3.75 an hour, mortgage rates were 18%, older 2 bedroom bungalow was $50,000, a nothing fancy truck was $7,000. It wasn't a cakewalk back in those days either.

Then we got spoiled with 3-5% mortgages, 0 down 0% vehicle and toy loans, credit cards and debt proliferated, for about 25 years, that got lots of people in over their heads. Personal and gov't debt went through the roof and got us to where we are now.

There's the real problem, housing costs are just part of the picture, people have been encouraged to live beyond their means and eagerly bought into it. Credit card rates are legally usury when it comes down to it.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

I dunno, I remember working full time for $3.75 an hour, mortgage rates were 18%, older 2 bedroom bungalow was $50,000, a nothing fancy truck was $7,000. It wasn't a cakewalk back in those days either.

Then we got spoiled with 3-5% mortgages, 0 down 0% vehicle and toy loans, credit cards and debt proliferated, for about 25 years, that got lots of people in over their heads. Personal and gov't debt went through the roof and got us to where we are now.

You missed one other thing that happened, governments took more of our income through taxes, upfront taxes and hidden taxes. It's to the point now that we cannot even determine how much they are skimming without doing some serious accounting.

50% of the price of a beer is tax? I don't remember taxes like that when we paid $0.25 a glass in the bar. And that's just one example, how much of that tank of gas is now tax of one sort or another? Direct taxation and taxation that's passed down to us as the consumers ie. carbon tax, gst tax....

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

You missed one other thing that happened, governments took more of our income through taxes, upfront taxes and hidden taxes. It's to the point now that we cannot even determine how much they are skimming without doing some serious accounting.

50% of the price of a beer is tax? I don't remember taxes like that when we paid $0.25 a glass in the bar. And that's just one example, how much of that tank of gas is
now tax of one sort or another? Direct taxation and
taxation that's passed down to us as the consumers ie.
carbon tax, gst tax....

If you look at statistics, they will tell you that Canadians pay about 45% of their income in taxes, but they don't
account all of the taxes and user fees. If you add in the carbon tax, EI, CPP and every user fee we are charged, that number will be well over 50%, and for some people could be closer to 60%

[jstubbs]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

I dunno, I remember working full time for $3.75 an hour, mortgage rates were 18%, older 2 bedroom bungalow was $50,000, a nothing fancy truck was $7,000. It wasn't a cakewalk back in those days either.

Then we got spoiled with 3-5% mortgages, 0 down 0% vehicle and toy loans, credit cards and debt proliferated, for about 25 years, that got lots of people in over their heads. Personal and gov't debt went through the roof and got us to where we are now.

So you were making minimum wage and couldn’t afford a house… haven’t been able to do that ever. Minimum wage now is $15 and that same 2 bedroom bungalow in Calgary is $500,000. So priced have over 10x but wage growth is less than 5x since. Wonder what the issue is?

[Rvsask]

Originally Posted by Scott h

It's telling that so many want to blame immigration (yes the rate is probably much too high) yet many of those same immigrants arrive in Canada, get jobs, work very hard, and buy homes. They then put their kids into school and graduate the next generation of nurses, etc. . I've got life long friends that still live in SE Calgary with 4 kids from 35 on down, and not one of them went to school to get ahead. Yes 2 (maybe 3) of them are still at home, and only one of them owns anything (a trailer).
And some how this is immigrants or the federal governments fault???? Really??

lol, no doubt.

Weird take here possibly but….. the houses I and all my friends grew up in would be considered a peasant shanty compared to most homes being built today and what a big number of middle class people want to live in. Let’s consider this as being a contributing factor too in home affordability. Keeping up with the Jones’ could be our societies motto.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by Rvsask

lol, no doubt.

Weird take here possibly but….. the houses I and all my friends grew up in would be considered a peasant shanty compared to most homes being built today and what a big number of middle class people want to live in. Let’s consider this as being a contributing factor too in home affordability. Keeping up with the Jones’ could be our societies motto.

Growing up, my dad was a contractor building residential homes.. I remember him discussing with my uncle how things have changed and that they would concentrate more on rural homes as there was a demand at that time. As time moved forward, I asked why they decided to get out of the home building in town and do their majority in the country. His response was that when they started building homes, people wanted a typical bi-level or similar, finished main floor and that was all.... The market developed into new homes finished top to bottom, landscaped and turn key.

My first home was a mobile, my friends built on the golf courses and wondered why I didn't. Many are struggling to make ends meet, but looking from the outside you would think they are living the dream...

[Rvsask]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Growing up, my dad was a contractor building residential homes.. I remember him discussing with my uncle how things have changed and that they would concentrate more on rural homes as there was a demand at that time. As time moved forward, I asked why they decided to get out of the home building in town and do their majority in the country. His response was that when they started building homes, people wanted a typical bi-level or similar, finished main floor and that was all.... The market developed into new homes finished top to bottom, landscaped and turn key.

My first home was a mobile, my friends built on the golf courses and wondered why I didn't. Many are struggling to make ends meet, but looking from the outside you would think they are living the dream...

In the town I grew up in, every new build the last ten years is a “mansion” for lack of better words. Affordable to people that built them but in reality, never affordable for the average person. I bought a very modest home on twenty acres for a fifth of what a new build in the new part of town would cost.

[nelsonob1]

The housing crisis really can't be blamed on a government. The problems were seeded 30+ years ago. The number one issue is the market cost of production of new housing. And the notion that housing is a commodity rather than a basic need.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by jstubbs

So you were making minimum wage and couldn’t afford a house… haven’t been able to do that ever. Minimum wage now is $15 and that same 2 bedroom bungalow in Calgary is $500,000. So priced have over 10x but wage growth is less than 5x since. Wonder what the issue is?

At the time $3.75 was about 40% over minimum wage in the province I was from.

18% or 20% interest on mortgages more than made up for the difference in costs compared to the lesser tax rates back then.

Then again there wasn't the things to spend money on that we spend money on today. There were very few going on Mexican vacations every year, no cellphone, internet bills, etc. Utilities were not jacked up with 10 different delivery charges. Few had credit cards, if they did they used them very sparingly. Most people didn't have boats, quads, fifth wheels, etc.

Biggest part of the housing shortage is developers don't build affordable simple small houses anymore. They build optioned out houses with far more square footage with all the bells and whistles, people buy them because there are few other options and interest rates were not much of a factor and banks were falling all overthemselves handing out money.. Developers are out to maximize profits with the biggest house they can put on a tiny lot to maximize profits on the land they are developing. Few developers are going to build a $200,000 simple bungalow on a lot when they can put a $500,000 - million$$ house on that lot doubling or tripling profits from the same lot and still have bidding wars over it..

[I’d rather be outdoors]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

You missed one other thing that happened, governments took more of our income through taxes, upfront taxes and hidden taxes. It's to the point now that we cannot even determine how much they are skimming without doing some serious accounting.

50% of the price of a beer is tax? I don't remember taxes like that when we paid $0.25 a glass in the bar. And that's just one example, how much of that tank of gas is now tax of one sort or another? Direct taxation and taxation that's passed down to us as the consumers ie. carbon tax, gst tax....

Hypertaxation and don’t forget, the trudeau tax goes up April 1st.

[pikergolf]

Things are much different than when the boomers were young. Yes it is tougher for the young, but where there is a will there is a way. I worked in a factory in my twenties, good pay, to bad they shut down. The guy with the most toys on our shift at the factory owned a 14" boat with a 20hp outboard and he had an electric roof rack (gasp) along with a 20' gasp trailer. Everyone else had tents or tent trailers, 4X4s were for ranchers or the wealthy. We all lived within or means and it was just understood that one did so. The wife and I rarely ate out, very few toys and just the clothes we needed. Somehow our world change with easy credit and the money waste I see wasted in young folks now..... man.... $100 dollar jeans, designer hunting clothes, an assortment of guns, well you get the picture. If you have the money, no problem, if you are borrowing to keep up, huge problem.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Trades can be great and good for both of them for making it work

But here is the real ? How much of their income is going to payments? Now consider the % of income used to go to the same expense

I can sit here and list many variations of your story but it doesn’t take away from the fact you have to hustle harder now to get by and own a house compared to the past

And that is when you adjust accordingly, modify your spending and get on with it.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by nelsonob1

The housing crisis really can't be blamed on a government. The problems were seeded 30+ years ago. The number one issue is the market cost of production of new housing. And the notion that housing is a commodity rather than a basic need.

Last year there was around a million new immigrants both permanent and temporary come into Canada, we haven’t built anywhere close to enough houses for people to live in especially in cities where the vast majority of newcomers end up. Housing prices have been inflated for years but recently we just had/currently having a cycle where housing prices typically would have gone down (interest rates going up a lot) and they continued to climb simply because of demand.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

And that is when you adjust accordingly, modify your spending and get on with it.

And it still doesn’t change factual math that it takes a larger % of a household income to buy a home or the fact that both taxation and living expenses are also eating up a larger % of their income

Yes you can adjust spending but this also means for some owning a house is no longer an option or owning a home in their location at least. You can only stretch a $ so far.

No one says it’s impossible or that no one can succeed. What is being stated is fact that housing is eating up a larger percentage of household income making it much harder for this generation to by a home

I fully understand budgeting and hustle I have owned(completely paid for not just paying a mortgage) 4 houses in the last 20 years with no help starting from homeless. Longest I had a mortgage was 5 years and that was only because I didn’t want to pay the penalty for paying it of early.

This was because I know how to budgets work and how to sacrifice but this means I also analyze numbers. I also try to be very realistic

[Talleyrandophile]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

And it still doesn’t change factual math that it takes a larger % of a household income to buy a home or the fact that both taxation and living expenses are also eating up a larger % of their income

Yes you can adjust spending but this also means for some owning a house is no longer an option or owning a home in their location at least. You can only stretch a $ so far.

No one says it’s impossible or that no one can succeed. What is being stated is fact that housing is eating up a larger percentage of household income making it much harder for this generation to by a home

I fully understand budgeting and hustle I have owned(completely paid for not just paying a mortgage) 4 houses in the last 20 years with no help starting from homeless. Longest I had a mortgage was 5 years and that was only because I didn’t want to pay the penalty for paying it of early.

This was because I know how to budgets work and how to sacrifice but this means I also analyze numbers. I also try to be very realistic

Agreed, and to take that thought further... budgeting and hustling can only take you so far when properties in a purchaser's target price range increase faster than that purchaser's savings rate year over year, even if you live the most minimalistic lifestyle possible.

[MK2750]

The average home price in Canada is 141 per cent higher than what a Canadian household making the median income can afford, according to new data from RATESDOTCA. BNN Bloomberg

[lannie]

Originally Posted by MK2750

The average home price in Canada is 141 per cent higher than what a Canadian household making the median income can afford, according to new data from RATESDOTCA. BNN Bloomberg

I looked on statscan and they are saying median after tax income of 68,000.00
From what I see around my community the average younger person is not having a problem. I do think the younger people who I see are much smarter/ making better decisions than generations before. If that isn't the case there is usually some poor guidance in their life.


https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail...g-a001-eng.htm

[Dynamic]

Some people in this thread are totally out of touch you can’t help but laugh. Modifying your spending, budgeting, and cancelling your Apple Music subscription are not solutions to the explosion of house prices. And blaming young people for mess that quite frankly was created by generations before them is also a pretty gross thing to do. And that’s coming from a homeowner of almost 15 years. It sucks for me trying to make sacrifices to deal with the cost of living. I can’t even imagine being a young person looking at this garbage housing market.

It’s not a good place to be. If those young people coming up buying houses realize that it’s not even possible to own a home that is going to be a huge problem.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Things are much different than when the boomers were young. Yes it is tougher for the young, but where there is a will there is a way. I worked in a factory in my twenties, good pay, to bad they shut down. The guy with the most toys on our shift at the factory owned a 14" boat with a 20hp outboard and he had an electric roof rack (gasp) along with a 20' gasp trailer. Everyone else had tents or tent trailers, 4X4s were for ranchers or the wealthy. We all lived within or means and it was just understood that one did so. The wife and I rarely ate out, very few toys and just the clothes we needed. Somehow our world change with easy credit and the money waste I see wasted in young folks now..... man.... $100 dollar jeans, designer hunting clothes, an assortment of guns, well you get the picture. If you have the money, no problem, if you are borrowing to keep up, huge problem.

How times have changed. It's pretty hard to take someone seriously about how tough things are when they have a 4 bedroom, 3 bath house, 2 vehicles, trailer, boat and an ATV.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by lannie

I looked on statscan and they are saying median after tax income of 68,000.00
From what I see around my community the average younger person is not having a problem. I do think the younger people who I see are much smarter/ making better decisions than generations before. If that isn't the case there is usually some poor guidance in their life.


https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail...g-a001-eng.htm

Location plays a big role on affordability and CNP is less affected by this same as Drayton Valley where I am. But now look at where majority of the population in Canada or Alberta live and that would be the cities where cost is much higher do to demand

Hence why I have posted multiple time on this thread that the only solution is to spread the demand by improving infrastructure and employment opportunities in smaller communities to spread the pressure. This is something Canada as a whole fails at. We have lots of land but we lack infrastructure

But still when you start comparing even our smaller communities costs in Canada are still high compared to many countries