Housing shortage - young people moving back home

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Pekan

Remote work doesn't seem to be brought up as a possible solution to the housing "crisis". The commercial real estate lobby must be strong.

I think the reality is, remote work simply doesn't work for alot of people.

[-JR-]

When I talk to the younger generation , they are saying prices are very high in Edmonton, as they are looking for there first home . Then I found out they are looking at brand new homes as their first house . I think they need to wake up Most big cities like Edmonton and Calgary have older nabber hoods that were built in the mid 50s on very big lots . These are solid homes that have been up dated and are going for under $ 300. Even the rent in these areas are cheep .
Its there choice I guess . Buying an older house were the monthly mortgage is less than renting it is a no brainer to me . At least you get it back when you move out .

[DirtShooter]

Originally Posted by Trochu

I think the reality is, remote work simply doesn't work for alot of people.

Remote work is a way for people to screw around on the company's time. Wine in the coffee mug, PJs for work attire, kids running around distracting you from work, dogs distracting you from work, no accountability from your peers.

My wife has a friend whos husband works for the federal government and he is still at home instead of driving downtown.

Working from home should come with a pay decrease. You aren't buying as much fuel, you aren't paying for parking, you're doing less work as described above.

I got other comments for this thread about who is at fault but all I will say is that it is MOSTLY the fault of the baby boomer generation for the housing costs/shortage etc. You can't blame people in their 30s for it.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Smoky Buck,

We had it easier than the young people starting out today because we did not support far left leaning beliefs, and were not taught in Grade School far left leaning beliefs. Back then Government promoted performance and excellence so Canada could compete on the World Stage.

It is no secret that Children's School Curriculum and teaching ideology these days centers on left leaning ideas. This has been a problem for 25 years.

My oldest child had to be motivated to do his math homework. I offered to pay him for each completed assignment, and I had a sliding scale up to $20 for 75 % or better for each test.

At the Parent - Teacher "love of learning" meeting, I was called out on this merit based reward system, as it did not promote "love of learning". Yet to get into any Professional Faculty, the Administrators do not care one bit about how much you love learning. It is a brutal competition based on grades, but of course the Teachers forgot to tell their Students that fact.

My Son is now Practicing Law. His Junior High School friends are still "finding themselves" at the age of 26. Who do you think has a better chance at owning the roof over their head? Most important, WHY?

Real World life is also a competition, other than the Public Sector. The DREAM of owning a house is achievable for the Young Adults. But they seem to forget that the fruits of their labours and efforts is earning the money to own a roof over their head. That is their current nightmare. Who made obvious reality a nightmare? The Education System and the Agenda of the Left who have slowly taken control Government through the
Government Bureaucracy.

It is fair to call out the younger generation who supported a Government hijacked by the Left. It is the young adults who never believed that the real world demands performance and effort, because that is what they were taught in school.

The Young Adults are the ones who have to change the System that has been hijacked by the Left. It is the young adults who have to admit that they were lied to, and living in a tiny house or shipping container is not what they wanted after all.

It is the Young Adults who have to learn that all the "Participation Ribbons" mean nothing in the real world.

Drewski

There has been those who thrive and those who fail throughout every generation. This not a matter of focusing on if one can succeed in today’s world it is a matter of realizing it truly is not as simple

Now for your example you are ignoring one of the biggest factors why someone is more likely to succeed or fail. It has nothing to do with left or right or schools. A huge factor is how someone was raised and morals they were taught by their parents. The parenting or lack of has a far bigger impact than schools themselves your story supports this. A child is more likely to succeed when parents put in effort to help teach their kids succeed and often help them prepare for life

Odds are from reason your son succeeded is the time and support you invested in him. Now the reality of it is there are far more parents who don’t do this and invest the minimum into their kids. There are many who worked and didn’t invest time even acknowledging their kids education or invested time to encourage hard work. The fact is the young adults with drive and moral are because of the teachings of the parents.

So guess what the big factor is with the screwed up ones? It’s not the schools you have proven yourself there is a bigger factor at play

I know lots of 20’s 30’s age that are motivated with good attitudes and they out number the lost extreme left views. Some had help to become educated by family others are just out there busting their butts because life didn’t allow the education route or just were not wired for it.

But all this doesn’t erase the fact that this world is more difficult to get ahead cost of living wise. It doesn’t change the % of one’s income needed for housing is far greater than it was in the past

I have never said owning a home is impossible I said it is far more challenging than it was in the past

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Is housing expensive in really desirable places to live, yes it is.
As everyone wants to live there, is there a competitive pool of employees, yes there are.

The obvious solution is to move, but quite a few people don't want to do that. In 2006 I moved to FSJ. Was getting paid pretty decent. Was chatting with a buddy in Edmonton, who had recently graduated and was working for an engineering consulting firm. Timmies in FSJ was paying within $1.50hr or what he was getting paid. We would have hired him immediately, given him close to a 30% raise, but he absolutely refused to move, wanted to stay in Edmonton. Not always, but often time there is a solution available, but, the Netflix is way better in Calgary, so people don't' want to move.

Yup getting away from the city makes a big difference and more people are doing so

Probably the first recommendation I give when someone complains about cost in the city

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Smoky Buck,

We had it easier than the young people starting out today because we did not support far left leaning beliefs, and were not taught in Grade School far left leaning beliefs. Back then Government promoted performance and excellence so Canada could compete on the World Stage.

It is no secret that Children's School Curriculum and teaching ideology these days centers on left leaning ideas. This has been a problem for 25 years.

My oldest child had to be motivated to do his math homework. I offered to pay him for each completed assignment, and I had a sliding scale up to $20 for 75 % or better for each test.

At the Parent - Teacher "love of learning" meeting, I was called out on this merit based reward system, as it did not promote "love of learning". Yet to get into any Professional Faculty, the Administrators do not care one bit about how much you love learning. It is a brutal competition based on grades, but of course the Teachers forgot to tell their Students that fact.

My Son is now Practicing Law. His Junior High School friends are still "finding themselves" at the age of 26. Who do you think has a better chance at owning the roof over their head? Most important, WHY?

Real World life is also a competition, other than the Public Sector. The DREAM of owning a house is achievable for the Young Adults. But they seem to forget that the fruits of their labours and efforts is earning the money to own a roof over their head. That is their current nightmare. Who made obvious reality a nightmare? The Education System and the Agenda of the Left who have slowly taken control Government through the
Government Bureaucracy.

It is fair to call out the younger generation who supported a Government hijacked by the Left. It is the young adults who never believed that the real world demands performance and effort, because that is what they were taught in school.

The Young Adults are the ones who have to change the System that has been hijacked by the Left. It is the young adults who have to admit that they were lied to, and living in a tiny house or shipping container is not what they wanted after all.

It is the Young Adults who have to learn that all the "Participation Ribbons" mean nothing in the real world.

Drewski

Its the kids fault that they were taught this in school?



--------------


When I bought my first house in '97, it was 5k cash down on a 140K 5year 5% fixed assumed mortgage, 100 a month city taxes.
No agent on either end, just a lawyer to look things over.
It was like buying a car.

What are the chances a young couple can buy a house today for 25K down without having to qualify for a mortgage?


Canada is well on the path where most will own nothing, and be told they are happy.


We can talk nuance all we want, but there is really only one reason for the housing crunch, immigration.

98% of Canada's population growth is coming from immigration.
It is too much, too fast.

Back off the current immigration levels and give our kids a chance.

[Big Grey Wolf]

The high housing cost for young people is very simple! The normal cost per square foot on main floor is around $300 in Edmonton, Toronto and also Vancouver. Thus 1200 square feet would be $360,000 for house. A serviced lot few years back was $50,000-$100,000 making home cost at $410,000. in Edmonton.
Why does this same home cost over $1,000,000 in Toronto or Vancouver. It is land cost because of 'Land Speculators". They get $640,000 for same small piece of clay that might cost $50-$100K in Edmonton.
Thus our kids can no longer afford a home with 7% mortgage and Land speculators pocket the windfall.

[Drewski Canuck]

"Its the kids fault that they were taught this in school?"

No Walking Buffalo, it is not the kids' fault that they were taught this Leftist Agenda in school. But they are the Generation taking over, and now they are the Generation who has felt the consequences of this misguided Agenda.

If you read on in my post, you would have to acknowledge, its the Kids' DUTY to change things.

Margaret Thatcher said it best: The problem with Socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money to give away.

I agree rampant immigration is how population decline is being addressed. Most of the newcomer Canadians are in minimum wage jobs and are not creating the housing shortage (alleged) or causing the increase in prices making housing out of reach of young Adults.

However, wages are not keeping pace with the Real Rate of Inflation, and the house prices are a symptom of inflation that has to be acknowledged.

So, just increase Wages, right? Problem is that TAXATION has been one of the big drivers of Inflation, from all levels of Government. Young Adults are left with Less and Less after Taxes each and every year, which leaves less disposable income for saving to buy and pay for a house.

Why is it that no Young Adult understands that the Government is robbing them of prosperity through ever increasing levels of Taxation?

But of course with Government employing so many people and increasing the Public Sector Workforce every day, the money has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is the rest of us including the Young Adults.

So the best course of action is to INSIST that the young adults vote Liberal / NDP and tell them in their face that if they thought they had it bad now, just wait to see what your next Socialist Government does to you.

Maybe then they will wake up to the mess they are supporting, and then they will understand how it was created.

Maybe then the ideology being spread through the Education Curriculum will be addressed, and future Canadians will have a chance at the prosperity that we enjoyed.

Drewski

[Grizzly Adams1]

Might be news and foreign to us, but the cultures that are migrating here, regard multigenerational living together as normal and that includes looking after the seniors in their declining years, not a bad thing.

[W921]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I


We can talk nuance all we want, but there is really only one reason for the housing crunch, immigration.

98% of Canada's population growth is coming from immigration.
It is too much, too fast.

Back off the current immigration levels and give our kids a chance.

In the small town I live closest to you can buy a decent house for 300,000 which because of building codes is probably almost half what it would cost you to build.
Seems like a deal but only government jobs will pay anything. Most other jobs in town only part time and only pay basic minimum wage. Town is run by people who I would never vote for and I would never start a business there because of all the regulations. But tons of immigrants from Calgary and over seas moving here and there is no way they can earn enough to afford one of these mortgages unless they already have money .
I agree the more you let in immigrants the more expensive houses are. I also suspect immigrants are getting help from government that normal people dont get because they couuld not afford what they have unless they had deep pockets before they came here.

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by DirtShooter

Remote work is a way for people to screw around on the company's time. Wine in the coffee mug, PJs for work attire, kids running around distracting you from work, dogs distracting you from work, no accountability from your peers.

My wife has a friend whos husband works for the federal government and he is still at home instead of driving downtown.

Working from home should come with a pay decrease. You aren't buying as much fuel, you aren't paying for parking, you're doing less work as described above.

I got other comments for this thread about who is at fault but all I will say is that it is MOSTLY the fault of the baby boomer generation for the housing costs/shortage etc. You can't blame people in their 30s for it.

I'm not sure how the cost/shortage of housing is the fault of the boomers (I'm not a boomer)? I don't think that the boomers are the ones that have been offering tens of thousands over and above asking price for the past couple of decades. There have probably been just as many boomers selling their houses and moving into condos, retirement communities and care homes than those who are buying new homes in that time frame. Maybe blame the immigration policies, money laundering through real estate in the GTA and lower mainland, and the instant gratification demographic.

[Groundhogger]

Originally Posted by W921

I have a Great Uncle who lives in Caledon which is or used to be very high end area.
Even where I live its definitely not affordable for young people
I keep telling them you have to move someplace where not many others want to live. Not a place that's stagnant but a place that's growing but still affordable. Example Saskatchewan.
Get a starter house and build equity.

Spot on-was always high-end, now it's higher than high. Worth mentioning, as much as it would probably make most Albertans feel ill to even drive east towards Ontario, I bet most Albertans would have no issue living around there. Stunning, and has what used to be one of the best trout streams in the province. Still there, but development in the surrounding areas has not been kind to it.

[Hunter Trav]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Why is it that no Young Adult understands that the Government is robbing them of prosperity through ever increasing levels of Taxation?

I would guess cause no one taught them that, and thats not their fault...it ours...

[Pekan]

Not sure how Boomers are to blame.
Cheap borrowing has had a massive effect on house prices. We had 2 decades of unusually low interest rates and it drives up real estate borrowing.

As for the younger people themselves, yes they're in a tight spot with supply and demand of houses. However, the millennial people seem to have grown up with nice things and I'd say they have an expectation of having nice things and living a certain lifestyle.

Just go to Earls on any given weeknight. Or have a look at the vehicles people drive, clothes, size of houses, new iPhones, etc. Canadian born people in their 30's don't seem to want for much. It's a mindset that doesn't seem to want to make sacrafices to get ahead.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

"Its the kids fault that they were taught this in school?"

No Walking Buffalo, it is not the kids' fault that they were taught this Leftist Agenda in school. But they are the Generation taking over, and now they are the Generation who has felt the consequences of this misguided Agenda.

If you read on in my post, you would have to acknowledge, its the Kids' DUTY to change things.

Margaret Thatcher said it best: The problem with Socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money to give away.

I agree rampant immigration is how population decline is being addressed. Most of the newcomer Canadians are in minimum wage jobs and are not creating the housing shortage (alleged) or causing the increase in prices making housing out of reach of young Adults.

However, wages are not keeping pace with the Real Rate of Inflation, and the house prices are a symptom of inflation that has to be acknowledged.

So, just increase Wages, right? Problem is that TAXATION has been one of the big drivers of Inflation, from all levels of Government. Young Adults are left with Less and Less after Taxes each and every year, which leaves less disposable income for saving to buy and pay for a house.

Why is it that no Young Adult understands that the Government is robbing them of prosperity through ever increasing levels of Taxation?

But of course with Government employing so many people and increasing the Public Sector Workforce every day, the money has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is the rest of us including the Young Adults.

So the best course of action is to INSIST that the young adults vote Liberal / NDP and tell them in their face that if they thought they had it bad now, just wait to see what your next Socialist Government does to you.

Maybe then they will wake up to the mess they are supporting, and then they will understand how it was created.

Maybe then the ideology being spread through the Education Curriculum will be addressed, and future Canadians will have a chance at the prosperity that we enjoyed.

Drewski

You are making some big claims and generalizations there

[The Cook]

Originally Posted by roper1

Our oldest came home from college, paid a little rent but dear old Dad made dang sure he was socking lots away. Skookum down payment on his first house.

Same with my son, he bought a condo in canmore in 2009 and will be mortgage free in 2 years.

[Groundhogger]

Originally Posted by Pekan

Someone mentioned a house selling for way over asking price. This game is played by realtors and it really needs to be a crime in my opinion.

Back in Ontario they started playing this game 25 years ago and now it's catching on out here. The real estate sales business is the shadiest, unethical, BS group of greedy, self serving SOBs there are. It wouldn't surprise me if they offer courses on how to successfully orchestrate a bidding war.

^bingo. Real Estate is something else here, especially in S. Ontario. There are houses that sell here that never went on the market, agents start working backroom deals/bidding wars. High demand/short supply+opportunity, and the greasy stuff starts.

I sold my parents house in 2012 after dad died, agent didn't seem inspired and kept pressuring me to lower the price. Mom needed every penny for her future and was getting anxious, asked me to lower it and I wouldn't. It sold about a month later, when I learned that the agent mom picked was actually representing the her AND the buyer. She's still a working agent in town, saw a sign this week.

[The Cook]

Originally Posted by DirtShooter

Remote work is a way for people to screw around on the company's time. Wine in the coffee mug, PJs for work attire, kids running around distracting you from work, dogs distracting you from work, no accountability from your peers.

My wife has a friend whos husband works for the federal government and he is still at home instead of driving downtown.

Working from home should come with a pay decrease. You aren't buying as much fuel, you aren't paying for parking, you're doing less work as described above.

I got other comments for this thread about who is at fault but all I will say is that it is MOSTLY the fault of the baby boomer generation for the housing costs/shortage etc. You can't blame people in their 30s for it.

I didn't realize putting a roof over my families head 30 years ago would lead to the fall of civilization today but I guess putting the blame on us old farts is an easy way out.

[tranq78]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

My Son is now Practicing Law.
Drewski

Originally Posted by The Cook

Same with my son, he bought a condo in canmore in 2009 and will be mortgage free in 2 years.

Congratulations gentlemen. The most difficult job any of us will ever have is being a parent. You should be proud of your kids but you can take a lot of credit.

And as for housing, I always believed home ownership is a lifestyle choice. We rented until we were having a baby and then bought our first house. I still think home ownership is a lifestyle decision but I get that your mileage may differ.

[Pekan]

Originally Posted by Groundhogger

^bingo. Real Estate is something else here, especially in S. Ontario. There are houses that sell here that never went on the market, agents start working backroom deals/bidding wars. High demand/short supply+opportunity, and the greasy stuff starts.

I sold my parents house in 2012 after dad died, agent didn't seem inspired and kept pressuring me to lower the price. Mom needed every penny for her future and was getting anxious, asked me to lower it and I wouldn't. It sold about a month later, when I learned that the agent mom picked was actually representing the her AND the buyer. She's still a working agent in town, saw a sign this week.

Yep, zero ethics

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

The high housing cost for young people is very simple! The normal cost per square foot on main floor is around $300 in Edmonton, Toronto and also Vancouver. Thus 1200 square feet would be $360,000 for house. A serviced lot few years back was $50,000-$100,000 making home cost at $410,000. in Edmonton.
Why does this same home cost over $1,000,000 in Toronto or Vancouver. It is land cost because of 'Land Speculators". They get $640,000 for same small piece of clay that might cost $50-$100K in Edmonton.
Thus our kids can no longer afford a home with 7% mortgage and Land speculators pocket the windfall.

Speculators definitely changed BC in a big way..... That $1,000,000 house in Vancouver you mention? You haven't been able to buy one at that price for many years. It will be interesting to see how the speculation tax for non primary homes works out now that they've massively enlarged the number of areas it covers, and there will be lots of Okanagan, Shuswap, Vancouver island vacation property owners getting a big new bill in the mail. As well halting short term rentals (Airbnb) for many areas comes May1st, and a new 20% flipping tax also will catch a few by surprise. The province is really trying to make it a lot less appealing to gamble/speculate on real estate, so hopefully it may get a little easier for people find a place to live in the future.

[fishtank]

Originally Posted by -JR-

When I talk to the younger generation , they are saying prices are very high in Edmonton, as they are looking for there first home . Then I found out they are looking at brand new homes as their first house . I think they need to wake up Most big cities like Edmonton and Calgary have older nabber hoods that were built in the mid 50s on very big lots . These are solid homes that have been up dated and are going for under $ 300. Even the rent in these areas are cheep .
Its there choice I guess . Buying an older house were the monthly mortgage is less than renting it is a no brainer to me . At least you get it back when you move out .

Yet a lot choose to go with these skinny infill house with a half lot size for $500k, it’s a different generation.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Scott h

A $1,000,000 house in Vancouver?? You haven't been able to buy one at that price for many years. It will be interesting to see how the speculation tax works out now that they've enlarged the number of areas it covers, as well stopping the short term rentals come May1st. The new 20% flipping tax also will catch a few by surprise.

Zero change

The speculation Tax changed nothing as the reporting is basically honor system( I had to deal with this over an appointment in the lower mainland). The trick of using a “care taker” has been going on a long time too

I doubt the flipping tax will matter as there is always a work around. The funny thing is some of the crooked realtors in the lower mainland will set up everything for you.

Yes I personally know a couple crooked realtors in that area through a good friend who has been fixing and flipping houses in the area for the last 20years.

[Dewey Cox]

My goal as a parent is to make my kids annoyed enough with me that they want to leave home, but still have enough fondness for their dear old dad that they'll visit once in a while.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Zero change

The speculation Tax changed nothing as the reporting is basically honor system( I had to deal with this over an appointment in the lower mainland). The trick of using a “care taker” has been going on a long time too

I doubt the flipping tax will matter as there is always a work around. The funny thing is some of the crooked realtors in the lower mainland will set up everything for you.

Yes I personally know a couple crooked realtors in that area through a good friend who has been fixing and flipping houses in the area for the last 20years.

Could be, and there have been a lot of guys dodging it by lying to the tax man. I do know 2 guys that have sold their homes in Alberta, and made their Kelowna, and Penticton properties their principal residence just so they don't get a $15,000 speculation tax, on top of their property tax bill every year. I also have a nephew that's renting a home that until recently had been a Airbnb, but it no longer is allowed under the new rules. So there's 3 instances that I know of where the new rules have had direct effects. The real proof will be to see if property prices finally come down or at least don't continue to rise at such obscene rates.

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Zero change

The speculation Tax changed nothing as the reporting is basically honor system( I had to deal with this over an appointment in the lower mainland). The trick of using a “care taker” has been going on a long time too

I doubt the flipping tax will matter as there is always a work around. The funny thing is some of the crooked realtors in the lower mainland will set up everything for you.

Yes I personally know a couple crooked realtors in that area through a good friend who has been fixing and flipping houses in the area for the last 20years.

I wouldn't really say crooked realtors, maybe stupid home buyers. The blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the consumer, nobody has been holding a gun to their heads. Not unlike the "crooked" auto manufacturers and dealerships. Yes vehicle prices have also gone through the roof, however the market has also dictated that trend. When individuals started paying MSRP or higher I can guarantee that it didn't take long for the manufacturers/dealers to take notice, lol.

[DirtShooter]

Originally Posted by The Cook

I didn't realize putting a roof over my families head 30 years ago would lead to the fall of civilization today but I guess putting the blame on us old farts is an easy way out.

Your generation also voted in pierre 3 or 4 times and kicked this party off..... so technically you are responsible for the fall.

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by DirtShooter

Your generation also voted in pierre 3 or 4 times and kicked this party off..... so technically you are responsible for the fall.

I'd hazard a guess that very few boomers on this site voted in Pierre.

[DirtShooter]

Originally Posted by HVA7mm

I'd hazard a guess that very few boomers on this site voted in Pierre.

I doubt many will admit it but I would guess the number of voters is higher than expected.

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by DirtShooter

I doubt many will admit it but I would guess the number of voters is higher than expected.

Doubtful, at least any that were born in Berta. I'm curious which demographic you fit into as you're not openly denying culpability but maybe you are, lol.

FYI

1968 Alberta Liberal won 4 out of 19 seats, PC got 15
1972 Alberta Liberal won 0 out of 19 seats, PC got 19
1974 Alberta Liberal won 0 out of 19 seats, PC got 19
1980 Alberta Liberal won 0 out of 21 seats, PC got 21

A pretty blue province during PET's reign.