Scope mounting minutiae.

Pathfinder76 · #1 09-29-2023, 09:37 AM

Does anyone else use feeler gauges when mounting a scope?

silvertip · #2 09-29-2023, 09:50 AM

Hmmm interesting.....

Mounted a few but not with feeler gauges

please explain your rational

just a old guy always willing to learn some thing new !

Pathfinder76 · #3 09-29-2023, 10:09 AM

For ring cap spacing side to side.

JBE · #4 09-29-2023, 10:30 AM

Would that be considered anal? haha

fishnguy · #5 09-29-2023, 10:33 AM

I realized right away why (OCD, figuratively speaking, minds think alike, lol?). But I do not use them. If I said that I didn’t think about it, I’d be lying though, lol.

Smokinyotes · #6 09-29-2023, 10:34 AM

As long as you eyeball and have the same ring gap on all 4 corners what is the advantage of using a feeler gauge?

fishnguy · #7 09-29-2023, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBE

Would that be considered anal? haha

Yes, yes it would. That’s how you get the best, aesthetically pleasing, results though. Lol. I have a problem too, so I understand completely.

fishnguy · #8 09-29-2023, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

As long as you eyeball and have the same ring gap on all 4 corners what is the advantage of using a feeler gauge?

That way you know the gap is the same. Lol.

Groundhogger · #9 09-29-2023, 10:38 AM

Wasn't even sure what they were, and I've mounted allot of scopes. lol

I do try to get the gap even though, recognizing that the process of tightening down will often start to rotate the scope itself slightly. Granted, I only got my first torque driver about 2-1/2 years ago...and I've been shooting seriously for about 34 years. My input probably isn't that valuable.

I've also gone that far without feeling the slightest temptation to lap my rings, but rethinking that now after the most expensive rings I've ever bought marred the finish on one of my best scopes.

elkhunter11 · #10 09-29-2023, 10:48 AM

I eyeball the gaps, but I don't go to the extent of using feeler gauges.

GrandSlam · #11 09-29-2023, 10:50 AM

Mounted a lot of scopes and never used a feeler gauge. That’s a new one for me. Must be an OCD thing haha

Pathfinder76 · #12 09-29-2023, 11:19 AM

Your “eyecrometers” won’t be right. Don’t believe me. Go get a set of gauges.

elkhunter11 · #13 09-29-2023, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

Your “eyecrometers” won’t be right. Don’t believe me. Go get a set of gauges.

Out of curiosity, I grabbed my feeler gauges out of the toolbox and checked four rifles, two with Talley Lightweights, two with Leupold PRS rings. The worst side to side difference was .007" on a set of Talley rings, and the worst on the Leupold was .005". The Leupolds were on rails and were quite uniform along the ring, whereas the Talleys varied sightly from front to back of the ring. The question is, do you actually believe that .005-.007" is actually going to make any measurable difference? If so, what difference will it make?

Pathfinder76 · #14 09-29-2023, 11:58 AM

I told you they would be off. Lol.

elkhunter11 · #15 09-29-2023, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

I told you they would be off. Lol.

But you haven't answered my question, what difference will it make? Even .007" off side to side, means that each side is off .0035" , how will moving each side .0035" change anything? When it comes right down to it, you are using a cheap Wheeler torque screwdriver, that lists an accuracy of plus minus 2 inlbs, which isn't that precise at 15-20 inlbs.

Dmay · #16 09-29-2023, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

what difference will it make?

Practically, likely none. But it helps with OCD mindset and "feel-good".
I have it badly and understand.

elkhunter11 · #17 09-29-2023, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmay

Practically, likely none. But it helps with OCD mindset and "feel-good".
I have it badly and understand.

I will go to the extreme with some things as well, but this isn't one of them. Then again, I won't use the old Weaver rings with two screws on one side either.

Pathfinder76 · #18 09-29-2023, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

But you haven't answered my question, what difference will it make? Even .007" off side to side, means that each side is off .0035" , how will moving each side .0035" change anything? When it comes right down to it, you are using a cheap Wheeler torque screwdriver, that lists an accuracy of plus minus 2 inlbs, which isn't that precise at 15-20 inlbs.

It doesn’t matter, but that wasn’t the point.

270person · #19 09-29-2023, 01:42 PM

Theres supposed to be gaps? Well that explains a few things.

I suppose you're going to tell me using my Dewalt 24V cordless is a bad idea now too.

IL Bar · #20 09-29-2023, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBE

Would that be considered anal? haha

No anal is when you weigh each drop of loctite on the bases so that the front isn’t heavier than the back.

3blade · #21 09-30-2023, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IL Bar

No anal is when you weigh each drop of loctite on the bases so that the front isn’t heavier than the back.

Haha. Want to guess at shear values wet vs dry in 8/40 screws of questionable origin and material, unknown thread engagement, plus the margin of error on the torque wrench? How about after they’ve been stretched several times by chuckles playing with feelers?

Locktite is an automotive product meant for much bigger fasteners with much larger margins of error. If you use it on guns, be prepared to drill and tap, swear a lot, and source hard to find screws. I had a gun out of commission for months thanks to this stupid habit. The locktite now resides where it belongs - in the garage.

Pathfinder76 · #22 09-30-2023, 02:38 PM

Worry about your own screws.

3blade · #23 09-30-2023, 08:24 PM

Thats kinda proving my point. No locktite, no broken screws anymore (knock on wood).

But in regards to the feelers…I did a bunch of scopes the last couple months…and I hate to admit it, but I thought about it too

managed to resist because I couldn’t see a difference side to side. If I had I probably would have used em.

DLab · #24 10-01-2023, 06:15 AM

The one on the right is definitely NOT for base or scope ring screws, the one on the left is specifically made for small fine thread screws.
I was gifted that by a Machinist from the UK.

elkhunter11 · #25 10-01-2023, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLab

The one on the right is definitely NOT for base or scope ring screws, the one on the left is specifically made for small fine thread screws.
I was gifted that by a Machinist from the UK.

I have been using 242 for many years, and have never had an issue removing screws after using 242, but I don't even have 262 on hand. 262 is only required where there is a lot of vibration or shock loading of larger fasteners.

hansol · #26 10-01-2023, 08:12 AM

Ugh, this bit of Fudd lore needs to die.

General clamping force is derived from the elongation of the bolt, which is influenced by the tightening torque. During this tightening process, the impact of Loctite is minimal, often negligible (K-factor difference is hardly anything), especially considering torque specifications achieve bolt tension with an accuracy of about ±30%.

There's way smarter people than me out there on this stuff, so it's easy to do your own research if a person wants.

I hate clean-up of the stuff though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3blade

Haha. Want to guess at shear values wet vs dry in 8/40 screws of questionable origin and material, unknown thread engagement, plus the margin of error on the torque wrench? How about after they’ve been stretched several times by chuckles playing with feelers?

Locktite is an automotive product meant for much bigger fasteners with much larger margins of error. If you use it on guns, be prepared to drill and tap, swear a lot, and source hard to find screws. I had a gun out of commission for months thanks to this stupid habit. The locktite now resides where it belongs - in the garage.

hansol · #27 10-01-2023, 08:19 AM

Fun Fact: An Alaskan named Phil Shoemaker runs these on his 458win bear rifle.

He chose them after he and few guys used that ring style to mount a scope to a B2 50cal during his time in Vietnam.

Apparently they hold zero really well, and from personal experience they are THE lowest 1" ring available anywhere.

Installing them sucks big time though. As does avoiding scratches during removal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I will go to the extreme with some things as well, but this isn't one of them. Then again, I won't use the old Weaver rings with two screws on one side either.

PS-8.jpg

Dewey Cox · #28 10-01-2023, 08:27 AM

I'm happy to have my scope pointing forwards when I'm done.

Pathfinder76 · #29 10-01-2023, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hansol

Fun Fact: An Alaskan named Phil Shoemaker runs these on his 458win bear rifle.

He chose them after he and few guys used that ring style to mount a scope to a B2 50cal during his time in Vietnam.

Apparently they hold zero really well, and from personal experience they are THE lowest 1" ring available anywhere.

Installing them sucks big time though. As does avoiding scratches during removal.

Attachment 187294

Low is something so often overlooked. I look for less than 350 thou above the front ring (another good use of feeler gauges). On a straight high combed stock. Sadly most scopes now days won’t allow it.

elkhunter11 · #30 10-01-2023, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hansol

Fun Fact: An Alaskan named Phil Shoemaker runs these on his 458win bear rifle.

He chose them after he and few guys used that ring style to mount a scope to a B2 50cal during his time in Vietnam.

Apparently they hold zero really well, and from personal experience they are THE lowest 1" ring available anywhere.

Installing them sucks big time though. As does avoiding scratches during removal.

Attachment 187294

There are too many other options that are much easier to install, with less danger of damaging the scope finish, to resort to using the old Weaver rings.