New electricity rules announced

[traderal]

https://www.westernstandard.news/alb...pulation/53030

Might work if gov't owned the utilities. Companies will find a way of making up their profits, probably add 5 more lines of imaginary fees.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Wow, Klein Guberment deregulated power in Alberta to let Free Market give us low power cost. Then when we had previous extreme cold weather we were short of power. I noticed not a Single turbine was operating in Transalta's largest Alberta/Wabamun power plant. Sure helped too send Kw power rate through the roof for us Albertans.

[dmcbride]

Before Ralph deregulated power alberta was experiencing rolling blackouts because no one wanted to build more generation. It took years to get more generation capacity and before the NDP prematurely shut down coal and messed with the power purchase contracts Alberta had some of the lowest rates in the country.

A good article on why our fees are so high.

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...-fiasco-mounts

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Wow, Klein Guberment deregulated power in Alberta to let Free Market give us low power cost. Then when we had previous extreme cold weather we were short of power. I noticed not a Single turbine was operating in Transalta's largest Alberta/Wabamun power plant. Sure helped too send Kw power rate through the roof for us Albertans.

Why is that do you think?

[32-40win]

I don't have a huge issue with the power price itself, but, I do have an issue with the admin charges inflating the overall cost every month.

[traderal]

Not Surprising that ATCO was expanding into Australia gas fields with their profits and Alberta gov't help but yet losing money here. What a scam. We are on the hook for every bit of infrastructure costs through all kinds of rider fees while they invest in other ventures.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Wow, Klein Guberment deregulated power in Alberta to let Free Market give us low power cost. Then when we had previous extreme cold weather we were short of power. I noticed not a Single turbine was operating in Transalta's largest Alberta/Wabamun power plant. Sure helped too send Kw power rate through the roof for us Albertans.

Wabamum hasn’t had a generators since March of 2010!

Sundance has one gas fired generator Sun 6 and in early January had a boiler leak issue and was offline on a forced outage.

Keephills 2 and 3 (Kep 1 was decommissioned) were online and available in early January.

When investors start leaving coal fired generating companies and political trade winds make coal a bad thing, don’t hold out hope a company will stay with coal. Transalta converted from coal to gas at Sundance and Keephills, keeping what they felt they could afford to keep, the shareholders hold the company accountable so don’t fault companies for doing things to maintain their balance sheet, they aren’t charities after all.

You want to rant try knowing what actually was going on.

[59whiskers]

Originally Posted by traderal

Not Surprising that ATCO was expanding into Australia gas fields with their profits and Alberta gov't help but yet losing money here. What a scam. We are on the hook for every bit of infrastructure costs through all kinds of rider fees while they invest in other ventures.

Why would any utility company invest in Alberta when we have the anti business Liberal and NDP governments running the show. The Renewable Experiment failed to pull its weight about 6 weeks ago when it was -40 C. Stupid to have decommission Coal Fired Assets. Buying Coal Fired Power from Saskatchewan. Glad I can burn wood.

[El Carnicero]

Originally Posted by 32-40win

I don't have a huge issue with the power price itself, but, I do have an issue with the admin charges inflating the overall cost every month.

THIS!!!!!

The prices per KWH and GJ's are not the issue. The issue squarely lies in the ability for these companies to charge unlimited types and styles of rate riders, fees and surcharge.
When my power usage is only $80 but the fees and riders make my bill $190, that is a problem.

If the Govt' wants to claim they support lowering utility costs, then they need to do something to control these companies use of fees and rider charges.

BUT, Then that runs the risk of the government stepping on a free market system, and that is not cool either.

[tranq78]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Wabamum hasn’t had a generators since March of 2010!

Sundance has one gas fired generator Sun 6 and in early January had a boiler leak issue and was offline on a forced outage.

Keephills 2 and 3 (Kep 1 was decommissioned) were online and available in early January.

When investors start leaving coal fired generating companies and political trade winds make coal a bad thing, don’t hold out hope a company will stay with coal. Transalta converted from coal to gas at Sundance and Keephills, keeping what they felt they could afford to keep, the shareholders hold the company accountable so don’t fault companies for doing things to maintain their balance sheet, they aren’t charities after all.

You want to rant try knowing what actually was going on.

You are absolutely correct. You and I aren't working for free and neither will anyone else.

And when government tries to make you do something unprofitable, you simply won't. At least I won't.

And saying that utility companies can just add surcharges if they feel like it is so completely wrong. It requires sign-off from the regulators.

I'm not a fan of my power bill each month but I get the history behind it. Lashing out at the power company is like blaming grocery stores for the high price of food, gasoline stations for the price of gas, or the doctor's office for your hernia.

[Dick284]

Most people don’t get that we have 3 separate entities maybe even a 4th involved in delivery of electricity.
The generation entity drives the kw/h price.(Transalta)
Then there’s the transmission entity that has to be paid, that’s the transmission charges.(AltaLink)
At the end of the line there’s the distribution operator, who needs to be paid.(Fortis)
Sometimes the whole billing asset is a separate entity as well, so yet another charge.(Epcor)

The old pre deregulation days saw companies like Tranalta(Calgary Power) being the soup to nuts provider, with deregulation saw Transalta divest their distribution and transmission assets to focus on generation only.

How do you expect every entity who’s part of this supply chain to get paid for what they provide?

It’s simple, each entity gets their own line item on your power bill.

As for how much they charge, there are market regulators that over see the entities rates, and more often than not the process to get a rate increase is quit an intense hearing and negotiation which resembles a court litigation.

[albertan]

This is going to be THE election issue in the next provincial election. I remember when Trans Alta was in cahoots with Enron during a price fixing scandal. These companies are not run by saints.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by albertan

This is going to be THE election issue in the next provincial election. I remember when Trans Alta was in cahoots with Enron during a price fixing scandal. These companies are not run by saints.

Got anything to back this up?

[albertan]

The Enron debacle almost broke Trans Alta. You work for them and must know about that. Yes it was a while back but it did happen.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by albertan

The Enron debacle almost broke Trans Alta. You work for them and must know about that. Yes it was a while back but it did happen.

Interesting as there’s zero mention of this in the media(google search), or in any TA history I can find.

In the early 2000’s I was in the oil patch btw.

[tranq78]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Most people don’t get that we have 3 separate entities maybe even a 4th involved in delivery of electricity.
The generation entity drives the kw/h price.(Transalta)
Then there’s the transmission entity that has to be paid, that’s the transmission charges.(AltaLink)
At the end of the line there’s the distribution operator, who needs to be paid.(Fortis)
Sometimes the whole billing asset is a separate entity as well, so yet another charge.(Epcor)

The old pre deregulation days saw companies like Tranalta(Calgary Power) being the soup to nuts provider, with deregulation saw Transalta divest their distribution and transmission assets to focus on generation only.

How do you expect every entity who’s part of this supply chain to get paid for what they provide?

It’s simple, each entity gets their own line item on your power bill.

As for how much they charge, there are market regulators that over see the entities rates, and more often than not the process to get a rate increase is quit an intense hearing and negotiation which resembles a court litigation.

You forgot one. AESO. They got shafted with the off-book billion dollar liability that Notley incurred when she unilaterally broke the Power Purchase Arrangements with only 2 years before expiry.

Once the NDP realized they handed Albertans a billion plus dollar expense they blamed Enron. That is an outright lie. Enron had nothing to do with what the NDP did, it was all on Notley and her crew. But we are all paying each month to service that debt.

Of course now Notley and the NDP don't want to talk about it.

Originally Posted by albertan

The Enron debacle almost broke Trans Alta. You work for them and must know about that. Yes it was a while back but it did happen.

Are you referring to U.S. FERC around 2002 ordering every electricity trader in North America that ever accumulated an Enron business card to give information? That included Transalta, BC Hydro, TransCanada Pipelines, Enmax. Probably a bunch others too. But it was mainly BC Hydro's trading unit that was the target of the investigation, not Transalta.

I think your citation about Enron messing up Transalta is incorrect. TA didn't trade electricity contracts in the U.S. until after Enron blew up. They couldn't have because they didn't get licensed to do business in the U.S. until after Enron collapsed.

Not defending TA here, just want to get the facts correct. In fact Transalta did admit to market manipulation in Alberta separately after Enron, which is well documented in the media.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by tranq78

You forgot one. AESO. They got shafted with the off-book billion dollar liability that Notley incurred when she unilaterally broke the Power Purchase Arrangements with only 2 years before expiry.

Once the NDP realized they handed Albertans a billion plus dollar expense they blamed Enron. That is an outright lie. Enron had nothing to do with what the NDP did, it was all on Notley and her crew. But we are all paying each month to service that debt.

Of course now Notley and the NDP don't want to talk about it.






Are you referring to U.S. FERC around 2002 ordering every electricity trader in North America that ever accumulated an Enron business card to give information? That included Transalta, BC Hydro, TransCanada Pipelines, Enmax. Probably a bunch others too. But it was mainly BC Hydro's trading unit that was the target of the investigation, not Transalta.

I think your citation about Enron messing up Transalta is incorrect. TA didn't trade electricity contracts in the U.S. until after Enron blew up. They couldn't have because they didn't get licensed to do business in the U.S. until after Enron collapsed.

Not defending TA here, just want to get the facts correct. In fact Transalta did admit to market manipulation in Alberta separately after Enron, which is well documented in the media.

Yes and AESO and the NDP PPA debacle…….

Glad I’m not totally OTL on this, especially the ENROn stuff….. half truths and made up news, really gets my hackles up.

[tranq78]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Interesting as there’s zero mention of this in the media(google search), or in any TA history I can find.

In the early 2000’s I was in the oil patch btw.

Saw this after my last post.

You won't find any mention Dick, ever. It never happened. Unless TA's trading unit can time travel they weren't able to do business in the U.S. until after Enron.

Truth these days is being replaced with "narratives". Enron is not to blame for TA's woes any more than your dentist is to blame for a dead tooth, or Notley blaming Enron for her breaking electricity contracts.

[albertan]

I simply typed in Trans Alta trading fiasco and I got pages of information on Trans Alta's woes in 2014 and 2015.
Trans Alta will pay a 52 million dollar administrative penalty which the commission says is the Largest in Canadian history plus a 43 million dollars to cover the cost of the investigation.
Last year (2014) Trans Alta paid a nearly 150 million dollar US settlement after allegations were raised that it manipulated the electricity and natural gas markets during California's energy crisis 15 years ago.
In 2011, the company also admitted it had manipulated energy imports, driving up prices so that consumers had to pay an extra 5.5 million dollars for power.
In assessing the penalty the commission said "the contraventions resulted in significant, widespread harm to customers and the market by negatively impacting pool prices, the forward market and customer confidence."
Trans Alta spokeswoman Stacey Hatcher said with the commission's approval of the consent order the company is now " focused on moving forward."
This came from the Calgary CBC dated October 2015. The Calgary Herald had other stories dated 2015 in abundance.
The share price of Trans Alta has never recovered after these transgressions were made public.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by albertan

I simply typed in Trans Alta trading fiasco and I got pages of information on Trans Alta's woes in 2014 and 2015.
Trans Alta will pay a 52 million dollar administrative penalty which the commission says is the Largest in Canadian history plus a 43 million dollars to cover the cost of the investigation.
Last year (2014) Trans Alta paid a nearly 150 million dollar US settlement after allegations were raised that it manipulated the electricity and natural gas markets during California's energy crisis 15 years ago.
In 2011, the company also admitted it had manipulated energy imports, driving up prices so that consumers had to pay an extra 5.5 million dollars for power.
In assessing the penalty the commission said "the contraventions resulted in significant, widespread harm to customers and the market by negatively impacting pool prices, the forward market and customer confidence."
Trans Alta spokeswoman Stacey Hatcher said with the commission's approval of the consent order the company is now " focused on moving forward."
This came from the Calgary CBC dated October 2015. The Calgary Herald had other stories dated 2015 in abundance.
The share price of Trans Alta has never recovered after these transgressions were made public.

And not a single tie to the Enron scandal!


Transalta has its own transgressions 100% truth, contrary to your earlier assertions they had 0 involvement in the Enron scandal of 2001-2002!

Transalta’s troubles are an Alberta issue only.

[tranq78]

Originally Posted by albertan

I simply typed in Trans Alta trading fiasco and I got pages of information on Trans Alta's woes in 2014 and 2015.
Trans Alta will pay a 52 million dollar administrative penalty which the commission says is the Largest in Canadian history plus a 43 million dollars to cover the cost of the investigation.
Last year (2014) Trans Alta paid a nearly 150 million dollar US settlement after allegations were raised that it manipulated the electricity and natural gas markets during California's energy crisis 15 years ago.
In 2011, the company also admitted it had manipulated energy imports, driving up prices so that consumers had to pay an extra 5.5 million dollars for power.
In assessing the penalty the commission said "the contraventions resulted in significant, widespread harm to customers and the market by negatively impacting pool prices, the forward market and customer confidence."
Trans Alta spokeswoman Stacey Hatcher said with the commission's approval of the consent order the company is now " focused on moving forward."
This came from the Calgary CBC dated October 2015. The Calgary Herald had other stories dated 2015 in abundance.
The share price of Trans Alta has never recovered after these transgressions were made public.

Now you are mixing things up again. First you say Enron is responsible for TA's problems.

Now you bring up a different topic as proof. TA got in trouble in Alberta over price fixing 15 years after Enron collapsed. This has nothing to do with Enron.

As for CBC's one liner about TA paying $150 million for what happened 14 years ago, that's literally a throwaway line designed to mislead. It's a half truth. The best lies have a nugget of truth, to quote George RR Martin.

Almost $100 million of the FERC settlement from early 2000's was write-off of receivables, and that is a non-cash item. And this had nothing to do with Enron either. TA supplied power to California post-Enron when prices were high, the regulator then sued everyone in sight who had deep pockets. There was never an admission or finding of guilt. Enron was not related to this and everyone got sued.

Not sure if Dick will chime in here but half truths are just as bad as complete untruths. Whatever problems Transalta had were not due to Enron. TA couldn't have, they didn't get involved in power trading until post-Enron.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by tranq78

Now you are mixing things up again. First you say Enron is responsible for TA's problems.

Now you bring up a different topic as proof. TA got in trouble in Alberta over price fixing 15 years after Enron collapsed. This has nothing to do with Enron.

As for CBC's one liner about TA paying $150 million for what happened 14 years ago, that's literally a throwaway line designed to mislead. It's a half truth. The best lies have a nugget of truth, to quote George RR Martin.

Almost $100 million of the FERC settlement from early 2000's was write-off of receivables, and that is a non-cash item. And this had nothing to do with Enron either. TA supplied power to California post-Enron when prices were high, the regulator then sued everyone in sight who had deep pockets. There was never an admission or finding of guilt. Enron was not related to this and everyone got sued.

Not sure if Dick will chime in here but half truths are just as bad as complete untruths. Whatever problems Transalta had were not due to Enron. TA couldn't have, they didn't get involved in power trading until post-Enron.

Half truths and misleading presentations, what else do you expect from someone who resides beneath a bridge someplace.

[albertan]

The commission ruled that clear, cogent and convincing evidence showed Trans Alta timed outages at its coal-fired plants in late 2010 and early 2011 to drive up power prices when demand was high.
It also found that the company (Trans Alta) used privileged information to benefit while trading in the electricity market.

The California energy energy crisis was the Enron debacle and yes, Trans Alta got embroiled in it. Hence the "nearly 150 million dollar" fine.
As for trolling, if the truth is trolling, so be it. If you work in an industry and such behavior is occurring, brace yourself; there is going to be a fallout.
The Alberta Energy Minister during all of this was Margaret McCuaig-Boyd.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by albertan

The commission ruled that clear, cogent and convincing evidence showed Trans Alta timed outages at its coal-fired plants in late 2010 and early 2011 to drive up power prices when demand was high.
It also found that the company (Trans Alta) used privileged information to benefit while trading in the electricity market.

The California energy energy crisis was the Enron debacle and yes, Trans Alta got embroiled in it. Hence the "nearly 150 million dollar" fine.
As for trolling, if the truth is trolling, so be it. If you work in an industry and such behavior is occurring, brace yourself; there is going to be a fallout.
The Alberta Energy Minister during all of this was Margaret McCuaig-Boyd.

Transalta never was involved in Enron!

Please stop your trolling.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by albertan

The commission ruled that clear, cogent and convincing evidence showed Trans Alta timed outages at its coal-fired plants in late 2010 and early 2011 to drive up power prices when demand was high.
It also found that the company (Trans Alta) used privileged information to benefit while trading in the electricity market.

The California energy energy crisis was the Enron debacle and yes, Trans Alta got embroiled in it. Hence the "nearly 150 million dollar" fine.
As for trolling, if the truth is trolling, so be it. If you work in an industry and such behavior is occurring, brace yourself; there is going to be a fallout.
The Alberta Energy Minister during all of this was Margaret McCuaig-Boyd.

If you knew Dick284 you would know he is far more educated on this subject than just random Google searches

But keep going it’s humorous