Sealed Window Replacement

[ken1989]

We have metal clad wood frame triple pane windows in our house but several sealed units are leaking. The wood frame and metal clad are in excellent condition. I replaced one sealed unit a few years ago - so it can be done. Rather than replacing the complete window with inferior plastic cased windows, I would prefer replacing the sealed units only. There are about 10 windows. Who does this in the Edmonton area and does excellent work?

[Dean2]

I have Crystal Glass about to do a bunch of that on my windows. They will be here next week. Everything I have found says they do great work, they were also very competitive price wise. In fact, I had originally started looking at complete window replacements and it was Crystal Glass that put me on the patch of just fixing the windows when he came out to quote new windows. Replacement was over 45,000, fixing will work out to about 2,000 in labour plus the individual glass units.

Rebecca Logan
Crystal Glass Canada Ltd. Branch 224
780-458-5611
111 Liberton Drive
St. Albert, Alberta T8N 6A7

It will at least give you one place to get a quote. The other guys that were pretty good when they quoted was All-West Glass.

[Big Grey Wolf]

I replaced number of my large windows with only sealed units from All-West. The price doubled over last 5 years for same size unit including low E etc. I also had major problems when they gave me wrong sized sealed units.

[Jamie Black R/T]

I can understand wanting to keep the wood frames. But they are likely already 30+ years old. With a 20-40 year lifespan on the new units, will these frames last through another round of sealed units?

Will the hardware hold up that long? A lot of the operators and seals for those are obsolete so keeping them serviceable for the long term is likely unrealistic.

It's pretty frustrating to get forced into a complete window replacement just a few years after putting all new glass units in.

I do both regularly and labor rates on glass only in wood frames is 3 times higher than full window replacements. So dollar for dollar, your money is better spent on a newer, superior performing window system WITH brand new glass units. You can also take advantage of the Green Homes grants this way when applications open again.

You will find a glass shop to take your money I have no doubt. But do yourself a favor and get some quotes on complete windows to compare. You will likely be surprised how much you aren't saving.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Just a question, Jami, can you provide a complete plastic PVC 4x5 foot unit for $400.

[Jamie Black R/T]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Just a question, Jami, can you provide a complete plastic PVC 4x5 foot unit for $400.

No.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Jamie Black R/T

I can understand wanting to keep the wood frames. But they are likely already 30+ years old. With a 20-40 year lifespan on the new units, will these frames last through another round of sealed units?

Will the hardware hold up that long? A lot of the operators and seals for those are obsolete so keeping them serviceable for the long term is likely unrealistic.

It's pretty frustrating to get forced into a complete window replacement just a few years after putting all new glass units in.

I do both regularly and labor rates on glass only in wood frames is 3 times higher than full window replacements. So dollar for dollar, your money is better spent on a newer, superior performing window system WITH brand new glass units. You can also take advantage of the Green Homes grants this way when applications open again.

You will find a glass shop to take your money I have no doubt. But do yourself a favor and get some quotes on complete windows to compare. You will likely be surprised how much you aren't saving.

This.

I will have the energy grant maxed out this year when I finish up the windows in the house this year. It helps

[darlin]

You can deal with Crystal Glass or you could also give Can-Am Glass Products a call (they make the sealed units for Crystal Glass) they are in Edmonton.

As for window hardware, All Glass Parts has a pretty good selection. Their website has lots of detailed pics and their warehouse is in Edmonton.

[Off in the Bushes]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

This.

I will have the energy grant maxed out this year when I finish up the windows in the house this year. It helps

Do you have a link for this energy grant?

[ken1989]

Hi guys, appreciate the info. I will certainly follow up on the recommendations. Thank you!!

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Dean2

I have Crystal Glass about to do a bunch of that on my windows. They will be here next week. Everything I have found says they do great work, they were also very competitive price wise. In fact, I had originally started looking at complete window replacements and it was Crystal Glass that put me on the patch of just fixing the windows when he came out to quote new windows. Replacement was over 45,000, fixing will work out to about 2,000 in labour plus the individual glass units.

Rebecca Logan
Crystal Glass Canada Ltd. Branch 224
780-458-5611
111 Liberton Drive
St. Albert, Alberta T8N 6A7

It will at least give you one place to get a quote. The other guys that were pretty good when they quoted was All-West Glass.

Turns out Crystal Glass couldn't actually fix the issues with the existing windows after all. Got 6 quotes on replacing the ones that have problems. There was a VERY large spread ion prices with LUX windows at nearly double the rest of the quotes.

Decided to go with Durabuilt. Craig was the only person that came out, did a quality, detailed quote like most of the others, but he also actually followed up with a phone call. Also got a lot more details from him re the full install process and he spent all the time required to answer all questions. From the other info guys posted on other window threads on here, they seem like a solid choice.

[geezer55]

Do you have a link for this energy grant?

It was to run to the end of 2027 but they have paid out what they planned for and it closed mid February. They are talking about starting a new program . . . probably just before a federal election.

[Berniebeag]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Turns out Crystal Glass couldn't actually fix the issues with the existing windows after all. Got 6 quotes on replacing the ones that have problems. There was a VERY large spread ion prices with LUX windows at nearly double the rest of the quotes.

Decided to go with Durabuilt. Craig was the only person that came out, did a quality, detailed quote like most of the others, but he also actually followed up with a phone call. Also got a lot more details from him re the full install process and he spent all the time required to answer all questions. From the other info guys posted on other window threads on here, they seem like a solid choice.

I hope you have a better experience with them than I did. I had 2 windows fail and it took 8 months to get them to replace on warranty. Was not impressed on how they handled it. I have 3 more that have broken the seal and not looking forward to dealing with them again. This is in southern Alberta so maybe your area has better service

[Moe]

I'm a big fan of these guys https://permasealwindows.com/
They did my house several years ago. Pretty sure they are still craftsman from Europe. Good quality

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Berniebeag

I hope you have a better experience with them than I did. I had 2 windows fail and it took 8 months to get them to replace on warranty. Was not impressed on how they handled it. I have 3 more that have broken the seal and not looking forward to dealing with them again. This is in southern Alberta so maybe your area has better service

Thanks for the heads up. Will do some more checking about the Edmonton location. So far Google is kind of spotty.

One big issue as I do the deep dive before awarding the contract: so far, all the window companies seem to have good long warranties, 10 years to 25 years, but they only cover the labour for 2 years. A 25 year warranty on the sealed unit is fine but paying labour to replace their defect would rankle. Doing the second round of in-depth research as the more I find the more questions I have.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Thanks for the heads up. Will do some more checking about the Edmonton location. So far Google is kind of spotty.

One big issue as I do the deep dive before awarding the contract: so far, all the window companies seem to have good long warranties, 10 years to 25 years, but they only cover the labour for 2 years. A 25 year warranty on the sealed unit is fine but paying labour to replace their defect would rankle. Doing the second round of in-depth research as the more I find the more questions I have.

Had Lux out this summer to replace a sealed unit with an internal blemish. 2 trips out of Calgary to Caroline. Everything free.
GF is in the business. Her son is a glazier. They will always recommend Lux for good reason
Get what ya pay for

[Berniebeag]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Thanks for the heads up. Will do some more checking about the Edmonton location. So far Google is kind of spotty.

One big issue as I do the deep dive before awarding the contract: so far, all the window companies seem to have good long warranties, 10 years to 25 years, but they only cover the labour for 2 years. A 25 year warranty on the sealed unit is fine but paying labour to replace their defect would rankle. Doing the second round of in-depth research as the more I find the more questions I have.

They tried every angle possible to avoid the warranty period. Even tried backdating to the date of the quote and not the actual sale. I had to send picture proving my footings were not even poured yet. Once they are over the 10 year mark i think they will only cover half and steadily gets prorated from there. No company is perfect but the true measure of a quality company is how they perform after they have made the sale.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Had Lux out this summer to replace a sealed unit with an internal blemish. 2 trips out of Calgary to Caroline. Everything free.
GF is in the business. Her son is a glazier. They will always recommend Lux for good reason
Get what ya pay for

I get what you are saying, but I have found that paying top dollar does not always guarantee top quality and very often does not guarantee top quality service. I will pay more to get top quality, plus the install service, as well as after install service and care that is top notch. As far as the quality of the actual windows being installed, everything so far points to there being very little difference between Supreme Windows, Weathertec, Durabuilt or Lux, all of which are made here in Alberta. I am however going to check out Permaseal that Moe was good enough to put me onto.

So far, what my research has actually lead me to is the quality of the install is at least as important as the maker of the window, if not even more important. Trying to track down the best installer with good after install service, is turning out to be not all that easy. Even Lux and Supreme, have a list of "Certified Installers" they don't actually install their own windows like Durabuilt and Weathertec do. So you have to checkout each one of those as well. I will say Lux has much better Google scores for after sales service than Durabuilt, and that may tip the scales in their favour.

I really do appreciate all the input from the folks on here as it has given me a good heads up to service/warranty issues and provided some avenues to explore that I didn't know about.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Thanks for the heads up. Will do some more checking about the Edmonton location. So far Google is kind of spotty.

One big issue as I do the deep dive before awarding the contract: so far, all the window companies seem to have good long warranties, 10 years to 25 years, but they only cover the labour for 2 years. A 25 year warranty on the sealed unit is fine but paying labour to replace their defect would rankle. Doing the second round of in-depth research as the more I find the more questions I have.

I have some Durabuilt windows. I am in the process of replacing a number of other windows in the house. I DID NOT CALL DURABUILT FOR A QUOTE. You could buy the cheapest windows on the market and they will likely outperform the units I have.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

I have some Durabuilt windows. I am in the process of replacing a number of other windows in the house. I DID NOT CALL DURABUILT FOR A QUOTE. You could buy the cheapest windows on the market and they will likely outperform the units I have.

Pretty consistent feedback on Durabuilt. You guys and Google reviews have pretty much convinced me to keep shopping. Who are you ordering from this time?

[FCLightning]

I ordered my new Garden Doors from Permasol - European tilt/turn design. Loewen is the front runner for the casement/awning windows because they still offer wood interior with metal cladding.

[Vingiu]

I can’t speak much to warranty and after-sales service. But from a carpenter’s perspective - Ply Gem and Durabuilt are absolute no-gos if I was paying for it.

Units from All Weather Windows and Lux are a pleasure to install. Very seldom do they have any defects when they arrive.

That being said, if your window frames are still intact and weathertight, a skilled carpenter can reglaze a window for a fraction of the cost of new assemblies. That would be my suggestion, if you’re happy with your frames as they are.

The more times a window and the siding around it are fiddled with, the more likely you’ll have weatherproofing issues.

[walker1]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Pretty consistent feedback on Durabuilt. You guys and Google reviews have pretty much convinced me to keep shopping. Who are you ordering from this time?

Hi Dean
I am in Calgary so do not know if this helps or not but was asking questions here very similar about 6 months back.
I just had 4 large windows installed last week.
I went with Cossins . Not cheap but that is also not what I was looking for. Triple pane low E. They came under Lux in price. I got 5 quotes. I am now finishing up the work for the grant $ as they qualify for 250 each.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by walker1

Hi Dean
I am in Calgary so do not know if this helps or not but was asking questions here very similar about 6 months back.
I just had 4 large windows installed last week.
I went with Cossins . Not cheap but that is also not what I was looking for. Triple pane low E. They came under Lux in price. I got 5 quotes. I am now finishing up the work for the grant $ as they qualify for 250 each.

All of this info has been VERY helpful. Between here, Google and Homestars it is amazing how much you can learn about the performance of different companies. The Homestars reviews of Durabuilt were absolutely brutal, just like what the guys on AO have warned me about.

Thanks to Moe I have Permaseal coming out next week. Google, Homestars reviews are strong and I have gotten a very positive feeling from my limited dealings so far. Will know better after our face to face meeting. To me, one of the great strengths of places like AO is you get unvarnished feedback from people who have actually used suppliers or done what you are trying to do. It is why I always respond to these kinds of threads if I have relevant experience. Thanks for your input, will keep that in mind too.

Will be interested to hear how Ken made out with Crystal Glass once the job is done.

[rafternk]

I first replaced my bathroom and main bedroom window during our initial renovation and went with All Weather. All went well but did have a tiny bit of frost at -43C one morning. All Weather said that's normal.
Two years ago I replaced every window and door in my 24 year old house including main entrance and patio doors, went with Lux. Installer was there for 9 days and we were very pleased with the whole installation. One window was rejected by the installer because it had marks and one window was replaced a year later from an instantaneous shatter. Lux never blinked an eye and the warranty service side was as we expect when you spend $42,000.
I would go with Lux again and yes they were more money than the other quotes.

[Dean2]

So, got the quote from Permaseal. Literally 4 times the p[rice of the next highest quote. Their quote worked out to over $15,000 per window, which is well past stupid pricing. They wanted over $4,000 just to remove and replace an existing window that needed to be levelled properly. No idea who they find to pay those prices but you can certainly bet it won't be me.

Have settled on using Lux Windows. Now just deciding whether to use the Lux install team here in Edmonton, or Sherwood Windows and Doors, who also install Lux windows. Sherwood has been recommended by a friend and they have a pipeline 5 Homestar and Google ratings. Just waiting on the finalised quote from them to decide but if they are competitive with the Lux install quote they will likely get the job.

We have had a lot of renovations done on a variety of houses over the years. All have worked out fine and locating the right contractor has never been all that hard to do. When I went looking for windows I figured it wouldn't be cheap but I never expected this much price variance and certainly no where near the range of quality in the installs and after sales services.

This turned out to be a way bigger pain in the ass than I expected. I sure appreciate all the advice and help from the guys on here.

[Drewski Canuck]

The FUNNY part on all these posts is that none of you really understand who is actually making the glass units and from what!!!

I had this dance with Durabuilt who blew heavy smoke claiming theirs was the best.

I pointed out that all the quality Glass is AFG, and all the extruded Plastic Window casements are also AFG and the Quality Spacer Bars are AFG... and all that the Glass Plant making the Sealed Unit does is cut, place Spacer Bars, fill with Argon Glass (for the good units at least) and heat weld the extruded Plastic frames.

Most of our sealed units come from Ontario where the glass plants are located.

There is one Sealed Unit Maker in Acheson that I am aware of, but otherwise, you are only dealing with a middle man here.

But yes I have 3 failed Triple Pane Double Low E Argon filled units supplied by Durabuilt. Seems like they used Swiggle Seal Spacer Bars which are notorious for leaking. Past Warranty, and no reason to go back to them.

Drewski

[Jamie Black R/T]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

The FUNNY part on all these posts is that none of you really understand who is actually making the glass units and from what!!!

I had this dance with Durabuilt who blew heavy smoke claiming theirs was the best.

I pointed out that all the quality Glass is AFG, and all the extruded Plastic Window casements are also AFG and the Quality Spacer Bars are AFG... and all that the Glass Plant making the Sealed Unit does is cut, place Spacer Bars, fill with Argon Glass (for the good units at least) and heat weld the extruded Plastic frames.

Most of our sealed units come from Ontario where the glass plants are located.

There is one Sealed Unit Maker in Acheson that I am aware of, but otherwise, you are only dealing with a middle man here.

But yes I have 3 failed Triple Pane Double Low E Argon filled units supplied by Durabuilt. Seems like they used Swiggle Seal Spacer Bars which are notorious for leaking. Past Warranty, and no reason to go back to them.

Drewski

FUNNY...


There are several sealed unit plants in both Edmonton and Calgary.

They all procure flat glass from one of the few worldwide suppliers. Then assemble using components (spacer, sealant) from 3rd parties. No different than AFGD used to and no different than every other factory in basically every other industry today.

AFGD never built a complete PVC window. When they shut the edmonton plant down nearly 20 years ago I was a regular over there and still good friends with a few of the managing staff.

Swiggle went away many decades ago, for good reason. What you likely have is a knock-off "super spacer" that reacted poorly to the polysulfide edge sealant. There was a lot of that sold that failed between 2010 and 2020. Almost as widespread a problem as the old swiggle units.

Someone always trying to cut a corner and pocket the difference unfortunately.

[flydude]

Originally Posted by Jamie Black R/T

FUNNY...


There are several sealed unit plants in both Edmonton and Calgary.

They all procure flat glass from one of the few worldwide suppliers. Then assemble using components (spacer, sealant) from 3rd parties. No different than AFGD used to and no different than every other factory in basically every other industry today.

AFGD never built a complete PVC window. When they shut the edmonton plant down nearly 20 years ago I was a regular over there and still good friends with a few of the managing staff.

Swiggle went away many decades ago, for good reason. What you likely have is a knock-off "super spacer" that reacted poorly to the polysulfide edge sealant. There was a lot of that sold that failed between 2010 and 2020. Almost as widespread a problem as the old swiggle units.

Someone always trying to cut a corner and pocket the difference unfortunately.

Who would you suggest using for supply only of sealed units in Edmonton and what would you suggest for the unit specs?

[Sundancefisher]

We had the old crap Gienow windows with the black seal that fails. Had just the glass replaced and had the windows clad in aluminum. Haven’t had a problem and the exterior wood should be fine.

Also had a really hot room and opted for new triple pain windows in there. Been okay so far except the opening and closing hardware was cheap. I’d upgrade or go with a better quality one next time.

I also would have sat the job and sprayed foam insulation around the window after install had I been thinking.