Number of Guide/Outfitter Tags Issued

[Ranger CS]

Does anyone know where one can acquire the stats providing information on the number of draw tags issued to guides/outfitters within each WMU each year?
One can obtain such information regarding resident draws on AlbertaRELM but have not been able to find stats pertaining to guide and outfitter tag numbers for the various species within each WMU. From what I am hearing G/O are getting more than their fair share.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

Does anyone know where one can acquire the stats providing information on the number of draw tags issued to guides/outfitters within each WMU each year?
One can obtain such information regarding resident draws on AlbertaRELM but have not been able to find stats pertaining to guide and outfitter tag numbers for the various species within each WMU. From what I am hearing G/O are getting more than their fair share.

If you search back a year or so ago I think deer hunter had all the spread sheets done up.
I won't comment on your "more then fair share" comment other then the target is 10% by SMU. I personally think it should be 10% by WMU.
I will also say I know outfitters personally that have lost allocations due to resident draw numbers being reduced. Which in my opinion is the way it should be.

[Birchcraft]

Pad on my ignorance torkdiesel but what is an SMU?

[35 whelen]

Wmu

[bmac]

thank you Torkdiesel,it is very refreshing to see a guide/outfitter that has a realistic outlook.if it was 10 percent by wmu all would be good.and held to 10 percent.thats all that anyone can ask for.too bad it isn't.
do you know if the government s looking at the allocation policy yet?
they were supposed to be looking at it in late 2015 ,but i think they are too busy worrying about how to make you and i pay for all the NDP erection promises

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by Birchcraft

Pad on my ignorance torkdiesel but what is an SMU?

SMUs are groups of WMUs. Fish and Wildlife/biologists have a target number of animals they feel can be taken out of an area (not a WMU) The problem arises when game counts are down in one WMU and up in another that fall in the same SMU. The swayed numbers of allocations from one WMU to the next compared to resident draws is where the problem lies.
In a perfect world non-resident allocations would be on the 10% rule. 100 tags total for a WMU, residents get 90 and non-residents get 10. If the total number of animals killed needs to be reduced then both should be adjusted for the next year. You can't take an allocation away for the year of the hunt, but you can for the next year.
I also don't think they should take away allocations from the outfitters, I think they should be suspended until the numbers come back. 2-5-10 years, whatever it takes. I think this would help limit some of the backlash and anger coming from the outfitters right now. Allocations and business isn't cheap, we all know that. But please don't be surprised when people fight to protect their livelihoods.

[35 whelen]

MY IGNORANCE

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by 35 whelen

MY IGNORANCE

No worries whelen. I've never shared any info on this forum to make somebody feel belittled. It's about sharing info, I learn new things everyday.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by Birchcraft

Pad on my ignorance torkdiesel but what is an SMU?

Its called an SMA last I heard of it. Species Management Area.

So SMA #4 for antlered mule deer represents the following WMU's:
200
202
203
204
206
208
214
216
220
221
222
224
226
228
230
232
234
236
238
240
242
244
246
248
250
252
254
256
258
260
334
336
508

Because the SMA involves such a large number of wmu's, there are many WMU's where the outfitter allocations far exceed 10% of the harvest. And some that are much less than 10%

The SMU system is flawed imo. If srd can determine harvest goals by WMU, then they can allocate outfitter allocations by WMU as well. If they really wanted to.

But what does the current outfitter policy say? Is there one?

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Its called an SMA last I heard of it. Species Management Area.

So SMA #4 for antlered mule deer represents the following WMU's:
200
202
203
204
206
208
214
216
220
221
222
224
226
228
230
232
234
236
238
240
242
244
246
248
250
252
254
256
258
260
334
336
508

Because the SMA involves such a large number of wmu's, there are many WMU's where the outfitter allocations far exceed 10% of the harvest. And some that are much less than 10%

The SMU system is flawed imo. If srd can determine harvest goals by WMU, then they can allocate outfitter allocations by WMU as well. If they really wanted to.

But what does the current outfitter policy say? Is there one?

Yes deerhunter (SMA's) not (SMU's)

Thank you

I also agree the current system is flawed and should be managed by WMU !

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Birchcraft

Pad on my ignorance torkdiesel but what is an SMU?

Species management unit, which in Alberta comprises of numerous WMU's. As such, there may well be in excess of outfitter tags owned in a particular WMU. It's a little detail most are not aware of.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by avb3

Species management unit, which in Alberta comprises of numerous WMU's. As such, there may well be in excess of outfitter tags owned in a particular WMU. It's a little detail most are not aware of.

Which is absolutely ridiculous.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by huntwat

Which is absolutely ridiculous.

It is and it isn't.

From the biological perspective, habitat areas may well be much larger than the WMU.

Where this fell down, was when APOS was established some 18 years ago or so, they successfully lobbied to have their allocations based on the species management unit basis. Their argument was that if the biologist manage the WMUs in that manner, why should their allocations not be managed in the same way.

That argument needs to go out the window, as allocations for outfitters, or for residents for that matter, are essentially people management, and not wildlife management.

[Ruger99]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

Does anyone know where one can acquire the stats providing information on the number of draw tags issued to guides/outfitters within each WMU each year?
One can obtain such information regarding resident draws on AlbertaRELM but have not been able to find stats pertaining to guide and outfitter tag numbers for the various species within each WMU. From what I am hearing G/O are getting more than their fair share.

If you call APOST they should be able to tell you everything you want to know

[Talking moose]

[choink]

Go to APOS. Alberta Professional Outfitters Society.

[jwilson]

Everyone pays taxes, residents don't own the game, the government does, the sense of residents entitlement is just horrid. I hope they never go to Africa or New Zealand to hunt, or fishing in the states. They would be hypocrites.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by jwilson

Everyone pays taxes, residents don't own the game, the government does, the sense of residents entitlement is just horrid. I hope they never go to Africa or New Zealand to hunt, or fishing in the states. They would be hypocrites.

The government owns NOTHING!, they are the citizens employees, an inconvenient fact they all forget 10 minutes after the polls close....

[blgoodbrand1]

Originally Posted by hal53

The government owns NOTHING!, they are the citizens employees, an inconvenient fact they all forget 10 minutes after the polls close....

This is true.
And sadly we seem to forget as well.
Now if only I could tell knotley to clean out her desk and kick rocks

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by jwilson

Everyone pays taxes, residents don't own the game, the government does, the sense of residents entitlement is just horrid. I hope they never go to Africa or New Zealand to hunt, or fishing in the states. They would be hypocrites.

Everyone does not pay provincial tax.
The gov't does NOT own the game.
What other countries do is none of our business.

[jwilson]

Originally Posted by huntwat

Everyone does not pay provincial tax.

The gov't does NOT own the game.

What other countries do is none of our business.

My point is. Hunters are so greedy nowadays. "Just because this, I'm entitled to that." Like Tork said, it's like the kid on the basketball court that has 9 out of 10 balls and is whining for the last ball. It's sickening.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by jwilson

My point is. Hunters are so greedy nowadays. "Just because this, I'm entitled to that." Like Tork said, it's like the kid on the basketball court that has 9 out of 10 balls and is whining for the last ball. It's sickening.

So, you think it is right that a non-res can shoot a bull moose every year, but a res has to wait 10?

[jwilson]

Originally Posted by huntwat

So, you think it is right that a non-res can shoot a bull moose every year, but a res has to wait 10?

It is what it is, I don't need a moose for myself every year. And guiding is a part time gig I do, so that would let me go moose hunting every year if I decided to guide moose.

[SLH]

Originally Posted by jwilson

My point is. Hunters are so greedy nowadays. "Just because this, I'm entitled to that." Like Tork said, it's like the kid on the basketball court that has 9 out of 10 balls and is whining for the last ball. It's sickening.

My point is. Outfitters are so greedy nowadays. "just because this, I'm entitled to that." Like Tork said, it's like the kid on the basketball court that has 9 out of 10 balls and is whining for the last ball. It's sickening.

[Brock1]

Originally Posted by SLH

My point is. Outfitters are so greedy nowadays. "just because this, I'm entitled to that." Like Tork said, it's like the kid on the basketball court that has 9 out of 10 balls and is whining for the last ball. It's sickening.

reread the post

he was talking about residents

[jwilson]

Originally Posted by SLH

My point is. Outfitters are so greedy nowadays. "just because this, I'm entitled to that." Like Tork said, it's like the kid on the basketball court that has 9 out of 10 balls and is whining for the last ball. It's sickening.

I don't see it. From what I understand IN MOST CASES, (correct me if I'm wrong), most tags given out on any given draw season are reserved for residents, based on percentage. I worked for a few different outfitters that I've never heard them complain about resident pressure. I'm sure there are a few bad apple outfitters out there who break the rules or are unkindly to residents. But there are just as many bad apple residents who aren't the greatest representation of ethical hunters either.

I'm a resident hunter and I also do a bit of guiding. I can see how guys don't understand how they have to wait "x" amount of years when a non-resident can come every year, but I know that I personally don't need a trophy antelope every year, or a moose, or an elk or mule deer in the draw zones, (I could pull a landowner mule deer every year if I wanted) where I live I am content with the opportunity I have, eventually I'll pull a tag and I won't have to pay stupid money for it.

The guide in me likes seeing guys buying hunts up here, I get to participate in the hunts and get paid to do it.

[Ronji]

Originally Posted by SLH

My point is. Outfitters are so greedy nowadays. "just because this, I'm entitled to that." Like Tork said, it's like the kid on the basketball court that has 9 out of 10 balls and is whining for the last ball. It's sickening.

There are a ton of resident hunters out there, and its obvious by their posts, they are far more greedy than any outfitter I deal with. It's truly pathetic by all of the posts the huge amount of cheap shots, attacks, complaining and whining going on.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by SLH

My point is. Outfitters are so greedy nowadays. "just because this, I'm entitled to that." Like Tork said, it's like the kid on the basketball court that has 9 out of 10 balls and is whining for the last ball. It's sickening.

But outfitters only have one ball, residents already have the other 9. We don't want to lose the last ball we have.

[jwilson]

So, if in the extremely remote chance it was ever changed, and for example, non residents couldn't hunt draw species, would a resident wait 17 years for his chance at a moose and not complain? I'm using the 17 year moose draw cause it seems to be the example of choice...

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by jwilson

So, if in the extremely remote chance it was ever changed, and for example, non residents couldn't hunt draw species, would a resident wait 17 years for his chance at a moose and not complain? I'm using the 17 year moose draw cause it seems to be the example of choice...

I can't speak for all. But, I wouldn't. I don't complain about the once/ lifetime goat tag. Or the no non-res suffield tag. Or the no chance in hell trophy sheep draws.