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Old 10-05-2020, 06:32 AM
Don Andersen Don Andersen is offline
 
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Default Police Outpost Lake ACA aeration stopped

Folks,

During a on line meeting I learned that the ACA was stopping aeration of Police Outpost Lake and F&W anticipated winterkill.
More later.

Don
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  #2  
Old 10-05-2020, 06:53 AM
tallieho tallieho is offline
 
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It has been proven time & time .If you want to over winter fish .In shallow lakes.They require aeration.There are provinces all over Canada that aerate lakes,in the winter.Why is it every 3-5 years this item ,raises the issue.The govt,hired lawyers,to get a legal advise.From that.The determination.Was ,signage[THIN ICE CONDITIONS],ENTER AT OWN RISK.Encircle the aerator holes with fencing & signage Open water,thin ice.In some cases close the lake to ice fishing,when ice on the lake is present.
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Old 10-05-2020, 07:05 AM
tallieho tallieho is offline
 
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For your information This topic ; If ACA succeeds in shutting down the aeration at Police .imo It will start happening,to ALL aerated trout lakes,thoroughout the province
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  #4  
Old 10-05-2020, 08:35 AM
ecsuplander ecsuplander is offline
 
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Was there a reason given for the decision? I thought this issue had been sorted out. I would hate to see mass winterkills again.
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  #5  
Old 10-05-2020, 08:41 AM
gordfishing gordfishing is offline
 
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this seems a little ridiculous as they promote this lake as a trophy lake

but lets promote safe injection sites instead
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  #6  
Old 10-05-2020, 08:50 AM
Adrien Schnee Adrien Schnee is offline
 
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Don, sad news, and not as surprising as it ought to be. Alberta deserves better fisheries management - at so many levels.

Let’s hope this doesn’t occur, there are really not many quality stocked trout waters left and we can’t afford to lose one more.
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  #7  
Old 10-05-2020, 12:45 PM
PeterSL PeterSL is offline
 
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As I understand it ACA has had problems with meeting the legal requirements for running an aeration system at POL every year since they started it 4 or 5 years ago. They're legally required to maintain fencing around the polynya created by the aerators but the wind can be so severe there (up to 110kph) that the polynya expands and contracts to such a degree that maintaining the fencing - up to 900m of it - has proved impossible. Fencing has also been blown onto surrounding farmland. Net result is that provincial requirements are not met and aeration becomes a risk to the public and to the staff trying to maintain it. I think they tried different locations for installing the aerators but because wind direction is variable the result was the same.
I agree that without aeration stocked fisheries would be severely affected but think this is a one off. I believe there is strong support from ACA and AEP for maintaining stocked fisheries and aerating where possible. Last I heard ACA is even looking to aerate more ponds though I suspect its revenues might be down from major sponsors who are experiencing economic problems and from the lack of licence revenues from American and other visitors.
Would be interested to hear of ideas for solving the problem at POL - I can't think of any.
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Old 10-05-2020, 12:58 PM
tallieho tallieho is offline
 
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Peter For the money that we as fishermen send to ACA.they can try harder.For the record there was never a problem with aerators/fences.When the orginal site area was used.worked well for almost 20 years ,withonly 1 wk in that time.Since they moved it 2 times ,there has been partial kills.
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  #9  
Old 10-05-2020, 08:31 PM
Wes_G Wes_G is offline
 
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I don't understand why there is such a problem with aeration at this lake. Close the lake to all ice fishing and that solves the problem. They already close the gates at the top of the hill so what reason would there be for anyone to be down on the ice at the lake anyway?

Its going to be a damn shame to see this lake winterkill AGAIN! It was so good this past spring because it was aerated all last winter. The winter before when there was no aeration, again, an almost total winterkill.

Its ridiculous when it's 2020 and we can't keep fish alive over the winter for fear of litigation because some dumb ass might go and hurt themselves.
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  #10  
Old 10-05-2020, 10:23 PM
Soab Soab is offline
 
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It finally becomes a “trophy “ lake then this ? Wow
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Old 10-06-2020, 07:44 PM
Don Andersen Don Andersen is offline
 
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Aeration using previously purchased and install utilizing shore mounted electrical outlet.
Worked just fine.

Don
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  #12  
Old 10-06-2020, 08:12 PM
Fishtracker Fishtracker is offline
 
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Not positive news for sure and as we are looking for a solution to some of these trout lakes, I'd thought make a few suggestions which may or may not be worth considering.

1) Any lake with trophy potential like Police, needs aeration end of story! To that end, would it make sense to close them and block road access if possible. What I mean is a May 1 to Oct 31 fishing season. This would not only protect the trophy fish we are all hoping to catch against higher mortality ice fishing, but may reduce the risk of legal liability if the lake is (Closed 100%) during the months when ice is present.

2) If the lake is closed to fishing 100% from Nov 1 to May 1, would it not remove the requirement to install fencing around the aerators? Since the risk is now gone if the lake is closed? Put up a few more signs to hammer home the fact?
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  #13  
Old 10-07-2020, 06:54 AM
tallieho tallieho is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishtracker View Post
Not positive news for sure and as we are looking for a solution to some of these trout lakes, I'd thought make a few suggestions which may or may not be worth considering.

1) Any lake with trophy potential like Police, needs aeration end of story! To that end, would it make sense to close them and block road access if possible. What I mean is a May 1 to Oct 31 fishing season. This would not only protect the trophy fish we are all hoping to catch against higher mortality ice fishing, but may reduce the risk of legal liability if the lake is (Closed 100%) during the months when ice is present.

2) If the lake is closed to fishing 100% from Nov 1 to May 1, would it not remove the requirement to install fencing around the aerators? Since the risk is now gone if the lake is closed? Put up a few more signs to hammer home the fact?
Fish tracker I believe exactly as you say.
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  #14  
Old 10-07-2020, 11:38 AM
Pheasinator Pheasinator is offline
 
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It is closed and gated, but lawyers are involved so common sense is out the window.
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Old 10-07-2020, 12:45 PM
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pikergolf pikergolf is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSL View Post
As I understand it ACA has had problems with meeting the legal requirements for running an aeration system at POL every year since they started it 4 or 5 years ago. They're legally required to maintain fencing around the polynya created by the aerators but the wind can be so severe there (up to 110kph) that the polynya expands and contracts to such a degree that maintaining the fencing - up to 900m of it - has proved impossible. Fencing has also been blown onto surrounding farmland. Net result is that provincial requirements are not met and aeration becomes a risk to the public and to the staff trying to maintain it. I think they tried different locations for installing the aerators but because wind direction is variable the result was the same.
I agree that without aeration stocked fisheries would be severely affected but think this is a one off. I believe there is strong support from ACA and AEP for maintaining stocked fisheries and aerating where possible. Last I heard ACA is even looking to aerate more ponds though I suspect its revenues might be down from major sponsors who are experiencing economic problems and from the lack of licence revenues from American and other visitors.
Would be interested to hear of ideas for solving the problem at POL - I can't think of any.
Just shut the lake down for the winter, easy peasy. Bullshead was shut down from Nov.1 to April 1.
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Old 10-07-2020, 09:00 PM
PeterSL PeterSL is offline
 
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Maybe you're right Piker, but I'm not sure it's that easy. The counter argument I heard back when there was a major shut down of lake aeration systems a few years ago is that, regardless of whether you close the road in, close the lake to ice fishing, post more signs whatever, as soon as you make a hole in the ice you are legally liable for any harm that occurs because of that action, unless you follow the requirements of AEP as agreed with the Soicitor General - primarily maintaining fencing around any open water or thin ice created. It doesn't matter if someone ignores the closures and signs and is there illegally. The same rules apparently apply.
I'm no lawyer but I've heard of other instances where an individual has protection from loss or harm even when committing an illegal act. That may be contrary to common sense but I suspect it's true. Hopefully there's a lawyer or someone on AO with direct knowledge who could clarify this.
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  #17  
Old 10-07-2020, 09:35 PM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikergolf View Post
Just shut the lake down for the winter, easy peasy. Bullshead was shut down from Nov.1 to April 1.
I believe Police has the same closures as Bullshead.
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  #18  
Old 10-08-2020, 09:04 AM
Don Andersen Don Andersen is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSL View Post
Maybe you're right Piker, but I'm not sure it's that easy. The counter argument I heard back when there was a major shut down of lake aeration systems a few years ago is that, regardless of whether you close the road in, close the lake to ice fishing, post more signs whatever, as soon as you make a hole in the ice you are legally liable for any harm that occurs because of that action, unless you follow the requirements of AEP as agreed with the Soicitor General - primarily maintaining fencing around any open water or thin ice created. It doesn't matter if someone ignores the closures and signs and is there illegally. The same rules apparently apply.
I'm no lawyer but I've heard of other instances where an individual has protection from loss or harm even when committing an illegal act. That may be contrary to common sense but I suspect it's true. Hopefully there's a lawyer or someone on AO with direct knowledge who could clarify this.
Peter is exactly right. Leaving a hole is a criminal act.
However, society choses which hole is an issue. Examples would include drainage and sewage outflows in towns and cities, outflows from dams, 10” ice auger holes, netting jigger holes. The list is endless but trout lake aeration holes, well, they got to be protected.
No matter how the hole is fenced, someone will cross it potentially dying.
The story of Mitzi the Mutt whose HUMAN was fishing an areated lake outlines the issue. Mitzi and the HUMAN were playing catch with a ball that finally went through the exclusion fence and into the hole. Mitzi dives, couldn’t get out, HUMAN dives in and damn near drowns. Sues. BC nearly stopped aeration.
The message is clear.

Don
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  #19  
Old 10-08-2020, 01:20 PM
NCC NCC is offline
 
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No different than the idiot who rode his horse into a wire gate, caught piled, and sued the Hutterites so they shut down all access. The poor decision making of a few ruin things for all of us.
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  #20  
Old 10-08-2020, 07:04 PM
Don Andersen Don Andersen is offline
 
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Holly ****,

How about this!

The ACA staff and F&W staff from Rocky regularly Ice fish Beaver Lake when it opens April 1. The ice fishing occurs when the exclusion fence is floating around the aeration pool keeping no one from dying. Ice fishing also occurs at Police and if memory serves at Bullhead.
So, if there was no liability issue in April, why in the hell does the ACA get all excited in Feb/March?

Regards,

Don
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  #21  
Old 10-08-2020, 08:09 PM
shep dog shep dog is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallieho View Post
It has been proven time & time .If you want to over winter fish .In shallow lakes.They require aeration.There are provinces all over Canada that aerate lakes,in the winter.Why is it every 3-5 years this item ,raises the issue.The govt,hired lawyers,to get a legal advise.From that.The determination.Was ,signage[THIN ICE CONDITIONS],ENTER AT OWN RISK.Encircle the aerator holes with fencing & signage Open water,thin ice.In some cases close the lake to ice fishing,when ice on the lake is present.
Do you know how to use punctuation marks?
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  #22  
Old 10-09-2020, 04:10 PM
dumoulin dumoulin is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen View Post
Holly ****,

How about this!

The ACA staff and F&W staff from Rocky regularly Ice fish Beaver Lake when it opens April 1. The ice fishing occurs when the exclusion fence is floating around the aeration pool keeping no one from dying. Ice fishing also occurs at Police and if memory serves at Bullhead.
So, if there was no liability issue in April, why in the hell does the ACA get all excited in Feb/March?

Regards,

Don
You know people. They like to get excited especially when they are paid to do so...
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  #23  
Old 10-11-2020, 04:50 PM
shep dog shep dog is offline
 
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Sorry guys, but they're all "Put and Take" fisheries.

"Put" is tax dollars, and "Take" is a measly licence fee.
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Old 10-13-2020, 03:58 AM
Don Andersen Don Andersen is offline
 
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Not again.
If one can recall the last time the ACA withdrew from the aeration of lakes it was In the fall allowing little time to figure out what to do.
And yet again, here we are, a month from ice and the ACA does it again.

Don
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Old 10-13-2020, 03:55 PM
shep dog shep dog is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen View Post
Not again.
If one can recall the last time the ACA withdrew from the aeration of lakes it was In the fall allowing little time to figure out what to do.
And yet again, here we are, a month from ice and the ACA does it again.

Don
And the ACA has a budget.

You want Put and Take fisheries aerated? Fair enough. You pony up the dough for insurance, administration, labour, equipment...

We have far bigger problems looking after wild trout.
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Old 10-13-2020, 04:11 PM
Don Andersen Don Andersen is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shep dog View Post
And the ACA has a budget.

You want Put and Take fisheries aerated? Fair enough. You pony up the dough for insurance, administration, labour, equipment...

We have far bigger problems looking after wild trout.
Hate to tell you, it is not one or the other. Both have their place. And pony up anglers do with every license purchase.

Ps, hate to tell you, Wild trout are gonna disappear. WD, power generation & irrigation, plus myriad other people related issues accomplished that.


Don
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Old 10-13-2020, 05:35 PM
shep dog shep dog is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen View Post
Hate to tell you, it is not one or the other. Both have their place. And pony up anglers do with every license purchase.

Ps, hate to tell you, Wild trout are gonna disappear. WD, power generation & irrigation, plus myriad other people related issues accomplished that.


Don
I never said it was one or the other, Don. If you want to fish for stocked trout, be my guest, no matter to me. My licence fee helps put fish in those fisheries.

The ACA has a budget. Again, you can aerated Put and Take fisheries if you want. If you want to pony up the dough and put your money where your mouth is, you can have anything you want, just add $$$. Mickey Mouse fishing license fees may not be enough.

I genuinely hope you are wrong about wild trout disappearing. If we all took your attitude, it might be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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  #28  
Old 10-14-2020, 09:35 AM
Don Andersen Don Andersen is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shep dog View Post
I never said it was one or the other, Don. If you want to fish for stocked trout, be my guest, no matter to me. My licence fee helps put fish in those fisheries.

The ACA has a budget. Again, you can aerated Put and Take fisheries if you want. If you want to pony up the dough and put your money where your mouth is, you can have anything you want, just add $$$. Mickey Mouse fishing license fees may not be enough.

I genuinely hope you are wrong about wild trout disappearing. If we all took your attitude, it might be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I hope that Wild trout won’t disappear either. That is why I’ve contributed well over $40,000 plus thousands of hours trying to stop the degradation.
The public has however voted to continue the degradation.
Tough to deal with city hall.
By the way, what have you done?


Don
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  #29  
Old 10-14-2020, 11:55 AM
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Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shep dog View Post
And the ACA has a budget.

You want Put and Take fisheries aerated? Fair enough. You pony up the dough for insurance, administration, labour, equipment...

We have far bigger problems looking after wild trout.
Aerated quality fisheries are highly sought after. They are also critical for taking pressure off wild fisheries.

Wild fisheries are suffering. I used to be a fisheries biologist and am an avid angler. I can say with certainty, fish stocks are down, angling pressure is way up.

Aeration costs do and should come out of licensing fees. Licensing fees should go the resource and not general revenue.

Police should remain areated and if you have to make a regulation that it is forbidden and illegal to go on the ice...then sombe it.
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Old 10-14-2020, 01:19 PM
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Scott N Scott N is online now
 
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I know some anglers never fish these aerated lakes, but personally, I'd be willing to pay more for a fishing license if "X" amount of it was dedicated to an aeration program for the lakes that would benefit.
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