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  #121  
Old 11-21-2020, 07:15 PM
shep dog shep dog is offline
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Originally Posted by flyrodfisher View Post
Gentlemen/women, I sincerely hope we are discussing Put-and-Take fisheries in man-made reservoirs, largely paid for with tax payer dollars.

As goldscud said: "I haven't looked into where the government money gets allocated."

Don't bight the hand the feeds you.

Last edited by shep dog; 11-21-2020 at 07:44 PM.
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  #122  
Old 11-21-2020, 09:40 PM
Pudelpointer Pudelpointer is offline
 
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Originally Posted by shep dog View Post
Gentlemen/women, I sincerely hope we are discussing Put-and-Take fisheries in man-made reservoirs, largely paid for with tax payer dollars.

As goldscud said: "I haven't looked into where the government money gets allocated."

Don't bight the hand the feeds you.
Uh, no. We are talking about aeration, and the lack of it for fear of legal actions by the stupid people of the world. YOU are the one obsessed with put and take fisheries. You are the one who started insulting valued members of our community. If you work for the ACA, come out and say so. Your attitude reminds me of that arrogance (of ignorance) that we have put up with for decades from the fisheries bios in this province. Only recently has this started to change, and it is long overdue.

If you donít want money spent on aeration and put and take fisheries, that is fine and you are entitled to your opinion, as of today, Canada is still a free country. Say your peace and donít let the door hit you in the a** on the way out.

How many hours a year do you volunteer for fish and wildlife projects, and or conservation organizations? Some of us have given a significant portion of our lives to try and create better opportunities for the citizens of Alberta, both current and future. Your approach to discussing conservation issues is caustic, at best.

Enjoy what so many others have worked hard for to provide you the opportunity... including those you have insulted most.

No respect. At all.
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  #123  
Old 11-22-2020, 12:55 PM
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Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
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Originally Posted by flyrodfisher View Post
Canít say I am impressed with the annual financial report. Also hard to find where they are spending money. Looks like little in the way of hard questions.

I would love to do an in-depth review of the organization to ensure this not for profit is delivering value or is some eco country club.

https://www.ab-conservation.com/down...ts_2019-20.pdf

For example...telephone and communications. $160,000? What is this? Sometimes lump sums and a common term just has people gloss over it.

To find more money for projects like Police Outpost aeration...it has to come from somewhere.

Also...very hard from their website to see what grants are given out end two whom or which projects.
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  #124  
Old 11-22-2020, 01:48 PM
flyrodfisher flyrodfisher is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Also...very hard from their website to see what grants are given out end two whom or which projects.
Grants are identified in the annual report I linked earlier.
As I said one grant is for the "Environmental, genetic, and social influences on sex ratio in the boreal ant (Formica podzolica)"...
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  #125  
Old 11-24-2020, 08:48 AM
pipco pipco is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Pudelpointer View Post
Uh, no. We are talking about aeration, and the lack of it for fear of legal actions by the stupid people of the world. YOU are the one obsessed with put and take fisheries. You are the one who started insulting valued members of our community. If you work for the ACA, come out and say so. Your attitude reminds me of that arrogance (of ignorance) that we have put up with for decades from the fisheries bios in this province. Only recently has this started to change, and it is long overdue.

If you donít want money spent on aeration and put and take fisheries, that is fine and you are entitled to your opinion, as of today, Canada is still a free country. Say your peace and donít let the door hit you in the a** on the way out.

How many hours a year do you volunteer for fish and wildlife projects, and or conservation organizations? Some of us have given a significant portion of our lives to try and create better opportunities for the citizens of Alberta, both current and future. Your approach to discussing conservation issues is caustic, at best.

Enjoy what so many others have worked hard for to provide you the opportunity... including those you have insulted most.

No respect. At all.
X2

Thank you. To the point and articulate. Well said.
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  #126  
Old 11-24-2020, 11:04 PM
shep dog shep dog is offline
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Originally Posted by Pudelpointer View Post
Uh, no. We are talking about aeration, and the lack of it for fear of legal actions by the stupid people of the world. YOU are the one obsessed with put and take fisheries. You are the one who started insulting valued members of our community. If you work for the ACA, come out and say so. Your attitude reminds me of that arrogance (of ignorance) that we have put up with for decades from the fisheries bios in this province. Only recently has this started to change, and it is long overdue.
Yes, we are talking about aerating Put-and-Take fisheries, namely because last year's stocked fish will not survive the winter in man-made reservoirs without aeration. Can we agree on that?

Friend, in no way, shape, or form am I obsessed with Put-and-Take fisheries.

Quote:
You are the one who started insulting valued members of our community. If you work for the ACA, come out and say so. Your attitude reminds me of that arrogance (of ignorance) that we have put up with for decades from the fisheries bios in this province. Only recently has this started to change, and it is long overdue.
This is simply beneath me.

Quote:
If you donít want money spent on aeration and put and take fisheries, that is fine and you are entitled to your opinion, as of today, Canada is still a free country. Say your peace and donít let the door hit you in the a** on the way out.
Yes, I am entitled to my opinion. It's odd how you contrast a free country with a differing point of view, and crude in my opinion.

Quote:
How many hours a year do you volunteer for fish and wildlife projects, and or conservation organizations? Some of us have given a significant portion of our lives to try and create better opportunities for the citizens of Alberta, both current and future. Your approach to discussing conservation issues is caustic, at best.
Aerating stocked Put-and-Take fisheries is nothing more than producing larger, non-reproductive fish until the next stocking truck arrives.

Quote:
Enjoy what so many others have worked hard for to provide you the opportunity... including those you have insulted most.

No respect. At all
No insults intended.
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  #127  
Old 11-24-2020, 11:22 PM
shep dog shep dog is offline
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Canít say I am impressed with the annual financial report. Also hard to find where they are spending money. Looks like little in the way of hard questions.

I would love to do an in-depth review of the organization to ensure this not for profit is delivering value or is some eco country club.

https://www.ab-conservation.com/down...ts_2019-20.pdf

For example...telephone and communications. $160,000? What is this? Sometimes lump sums and a common term just has people gloss over it.

To find more money for projects like Police Outpost aeration...it has to come from somewhere.

Also...very hard from their website to see what grants are given out end two whom or which projects.
Fair enough, you're not impressed.

Specific numbers, facts, details...that would make your argument stronger.

Always easy to critisize.
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  #128  
Old 11-25-2020, 12:45 AM
flyrodfisher flyrodfisher is offline
 
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Originally Posted by shep dog View Post
Aerating stocked Put-and-Take fisheries is nothing more than producing larger, non-reproductive fish until the next stocking truck arrives.
So....?

Stocking put and take fisheries is nothing more than adding non-reproductive fish until the next stocking truck arrives....
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  #129  
Old 11-25-2020, 01:05 AM
flyrodfisher flyrodfisher is offline
 
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Originally Posted by shep dog View Post
Specific numbers, facts, details...that would make your argument stronger.
Not here to argue...just stating facts;

From an old post...

"2019 levy revenue collected by the ACA from hunting and fishing licenses was $13.5 million

Of the $13.5 million collected, $7.3 million went directly to staff salaries alone
The ACA has a staff of about 80 people, of which 50 - 60 are biologists/techs
The CEO's salary is $305,000 per year"


The ACA collects $18.30 from each fishing licence sold....so, you need to sell 16,700 fishing licences to pay the yearly salary of the CEO of the ACA

55% of the levy goes to staff salaries alone...add to that trucks, fuel, building rental, communications, grants, insurance, travel, advertising and all other ancillaries....How much of the $13.5 million collected do you think actually results in tangible benefits "in the field"?

Read the financial reports that are freely available on their site...make your own decision if the levy money is well spent.

Last edited by flyrodfisher; 11-25-2020 at 01:17 AM.
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  #130  
Old 11-25-2020, 05:55 PM
shep dog shep dog is offline
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Originally Posted by flyrodfisher View Post
So....?

Stocking put and take fisheries is nothing more than adding non-reproductive fish until the next stocking truck arrives....
$$$
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  #131  
Old 11-25-2020, 06:18 PM
shep dog shep dog is offline
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Originally Posted by flyrodfisher View Post
Not here to argue...just stating facts;

From an old post...

"2019 levy revenue collected by the ACA from hunting and fishing licenses was $13.5 million

Of the $13.5 million collected, $7.3 million went directly to staff salaries alone
The ACA has a staff of about 80 people, of which 50 - 60 are biologists/techs
The CEO's salary is $305,000 per year"


The ACA collects $18.30 from each fishing licence sold....so, you need to sell 16,700 fishing licences to pay the yearly salary of the CEO of the ACA

55% of the levy goes to staff salaries alone...add to that trucks, fuel, building rental, communications, grants, insurance, travel, advertising and all other ancillaries....How much of the $13.5 million collected do you think actually results in tangible benefits "in the field"?

Read the financial reports that are freely available on their site...make your own decision if the levy money is well spent.
Sorry friend, old posts from whatever source don't carry much weight today.

Three simple facts:

1) The ACA has a budget.
2) The ACA has a mandate.
3) The ACA does not take directions from amateur fishery biologists.
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  #132  
Old 11-26-2020, 12:30 PM
Don Andersen Don Andersen is offline
 
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Originally Posted by shep dog View Post
Sorry friend, old posts from whatever source don't carry much weight today.

Three simple facts:

1) The ACA has a budget.
2) The ACA has a mandate.
3) The ACA does not take directions from amateur fishery biologists.
Gotta love #3 - and the results are obvious.

Don
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  #133  
Old 11-26-2020, 05:55 PM
flyrodfisher flyrodfisher is offline
 
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Originally Posted by shep dog View Post
Sorry friend, old posts from whatever source don't carry much weight today.
Here is the source...from the ACA website;

https://www.ab-conservation.com/down...ual_report.pdf
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  #134  
Old 11-27-2020, 03:46 PM
SNAPFisher SNAPFisher is offline
 
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Originally Posted by flyrodfisher View Post
Here is the source...from the ACA website;

https://www.ab-conservation.com/down...ual_report.pdf
Shep will not read it from here for at least 90 days.

But I did so thanks for posting!
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  #135  
Old 11-27-2020, 07:15 PM
SNAPFisher SNAPFisher is offline
 
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In case anyone was wondering the very moment of the departure of said member:
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=382119

P.S. Tried to warn him back on page 2 but he didn't listen.

So now that the grown-ups can continue to discuss, have at it with more freedom.

Don, not sure why you seem to attract the odd nut job / "out to get you severe dweeb with a vengeance". For what it is worth, I appreciate you, so keep the updates coming.

Last edited by SNAPFisher; 11-27-2020 at 07:31 PM.
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  #136  
Old 11-27-2020, 09:53 PM
PeterSL PeterSL is offline
 
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Tallieho shared with me a reply from Minister Nixon to his letter to the Minister expressing concern about the decision to discontinue aeration of Police Outpost Lake. He asked that I share it with others interested in the decision:
Dear :
Thank you for your email regarding the aeration and management of Police Outpost Lake. I welcome the opportunity to provide the following information.
The Alberta Conservation Association (ACA) aerated Police Outpost Lake on behalf of Environment and Parks to create, maintain and enhance recreational angling opportunities by promoting the year-round survival of trout in stocked water bodies.. Due to public safety concerns and organizational liability with artificially maintaining open water on the lake through aeration in the winter, the department and the ACA have jointly decided to discontinue aerating Police Outpost Lake.
Typically, high southern Alberta winter winds contribute to the expansion of the open water area beyond the safety fencing, which poses serious public safety risks. Safety precautions are required to address these risks, including the maintenance of fencing around the lake's open water section, access point signage and upkeep of the remote aeration equipment. It is not feasible for either the department or the ACA to commit to these mitigation actions at this time.
Over the last 30 years, the ACA, as well as Environment and Parks, aerated Police Outpost Lake for 15 winters. During this time, two recorded partial winterkill events occurred during aeration years, and two partial winterkills occurred during non-aeration years. As such, there is currently no visible reduction of winterkills due to aeration, which continues to be a rare event in the lake (occurring approximately every six years).
You have my assurance that Environment and Parks will continue to manage Police Outpost Lake as a quality stocked fishery to provide anglers opportunities to catch large fish, while encouraging the harvest of limited fish numbers to promote sustainability. Department biologists will also be working on improving the fishery using input from local anglers and stakeholders.
Thank you again for taking the time to write..The Alberta government is committed to supporting ongoing recreational use and enjoyment at Police Outpost Provincial Park.
Signed
Jason Nixon, Minister
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  #137  
Old 11-27-2020, 10:23 PM
Don Andersen Don Andersen is offline
 
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I got the same letter.

Sad to see that level of BS.

Don
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  #138  
Old 11-27-2020, 11:23 PM
wind drift wind drift is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Don Andersen View Post
I got the same letter.

Sad to see that level of BS.

Don

What part is BS? And by BS, I assume you mean a falsehood? Iím trying to be objective in this, and I question whether anyone, besides the ACA, can determine where their legal risk thresholds are located in this regard. Disagreement with their position by us doesnít make it a wrong position.
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  #139  
Old 11-27-2020, 11:48 PM
SNAPFisher SNAPFisher is offline
 
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Too bad the letter didn't explain how environment and parks will continue to manage it as a quality fishery without aeration. The two do not jive. Like others have said, close it off the lake for the entire ice season if that is what it takes to keep aeration going.
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  #140  
Old 11-28-2020, 03:50 AM
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Scott N Scott N is online now
 
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$50 says Police winter kills again this year.
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  #141  
Old 11-28-2020, 07:06 AM
newdrenalin newdrenalin is offline
 
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$50 says Police winter kills again this year.
Agreed....such a waste. I just started fishing it this year. Not many lakes in Southern Alberta that have quality rainbows. I just got into the lake flyfishing game last year and love it.
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  #142  
Old 11-28-2020, 09:56 AM
pipco pipco is offline
 
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Originally Posted by wind drift View Post
What part is BS? And by BS, I assume you mean a falsehood? Iím trying to be objective in this, and I question whether anyone, besides the ACA, can determine where their legal risk thresholds are located in this regard. Disagreement with their position by us doesnít make it a wrong position.
My question would be what are the other reasons ( besides liability) behind this decision?

There are currently many other stocked lakes being aerated with warning signage and fencing.

Same liability issues.

Either I'm completely missing something ( wouldn't be the first time) or else we're not being told other factors involved in the decision.
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  #143  
Old 11-28-2020, 10:13 AM
SNAPFisher SNAPFisher is offline
 
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My question would be what are the other reasons ( besides liability) behind this decision?

There are currently many other stocked lakes being aerated with warning signage and fencing.

Same liability issues.

Either I'm completely missing something ( wouldn't be the first time) or else we're not being told other factors involved in the decision.
Wind and temp pushes the aerator hole larger then the fenced area. A logistics nightmare... or not with some thinking around it.
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  #144  
Old 11-28-2020, 06:52 PM
goldscud goldscud is offline
 
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I will be interesting to see if the regulations of 1 over 50cm disappear going forward.
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  #145  
Old 11-28-2020, 09:58 PM
wind drift wind drift is offline
 
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Wind and temp pushes the aerator hole larger then the fenced area. A logistics nightmare... or not with some thinking around it.
Yup, chinook country. I believe putting a fence around a hole in the ice that changes a lot and frequently is the issue. Who wants to see the fencing lost into the lake? That would be a mess.
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  #146  
Old 11-28-2020, 10:02 PM
wind drift wind drift is offline
 
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I will be interesting to see if the regulations of 1 over 50cm disappear going forward.

If the lake doesnít winterkill every year, there should be no reason to change from a quality fishery.

On a related note, the intent for Pine Coulee is to make it into a quality stocked trout fishery. Iíve seen pics of big trout caught there recently, so the plan could be working.
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  #147  
Old 11-29-2020, 10:06 AM
Don Andersen Don Andersen is offline
 
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Originally Posted by wind drift View Post
What part is BS? And by BS, I assume you mean a falsehood? Iím trying to be objective in this, and I question whether anyone, besides the ACA, can determine where their legal risk thresholds are located in this regard. Disagreement with their position by us doesnít make it a wrong position.
I got laughed at by Towns and Municipalities when I asked them about fencing their sewage aeration holes.
Locating a system where it was subject to high winds and surround it with a fence designed to stop wind followed by locating system where road access is chancy at best is a recipe for a **** up.
Use the system bought and paid for by NGOs located on the west end of the lake outta the wind. Parks wouldnít use it because they had to pay for power.
Look at the parking lot and campground to determine angler use. Huge increase.
The ministers letter failed to describe all the previous **** ups by their dept. or ACA.

Don
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