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  #31  
Old 06-15-2017, 12:01 PM
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Yuppers, put some heavy lead in front of the old 303 British and let'er buck. Ha.

Now exactly wheres that dam target at again.
174 Match Kings work in the Enfields!
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  #32  
Old 06-15-2017, 09:56 PM
Bustercluck Bustercluck is offline
 
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What kind of range do you hunt at and what round are you shooting to worry about wind? My idea is to kill the animal as quickly as possible and cause as little suffering as possible. I respect animals and the sport too much to take lousie shots. It's alright to practice on paper, but I'd rather buy meat from the store than wing an animal to suffer for days just because I want to play sniper.
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  #33  
Old 06-15-2017, 11:15 PM
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What kind of range do you hunt at and what round are you shooting to worry about wind? My idea is to kill the animal as quickly as possible and cause as little suffering as possible. I respect animals and the sport too much to take lousie shots. It's alright to practice on paper, but I'd rather buy meat from the store than wing an animal to suffer for days just because I want to play sniper.
I have never met a person who wanted to wound an animal rather than kill it.
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  #34  
Old 06-16-2017, 07:08 AM
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I have never met a person who wanted to wound an animal rather than kill it.
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Agreed. But unethical shots or shooting beyond your skill level or the limitations of your gear leads to all kinds of bad shots. And then there's good old buck fever which we can't do anything about.

I don't think I've wounded an animal to date. I've had to put things out of their misery when I got to them, but haven't had to track anything through the bush or have it get away. I've helped other people, but it hasn't happened to me. If I have to start guessing at things it's time to let the animal go.
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  #35  
Old 06-16-2017, 07:27 AM
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Agreed. But unethical shots or shooting beyond your skill level or the limitations of your gear leads to all kinds of bad shots. And then there's good old buck fever which we can't do anything about.

I don't think I've wounded an animal to date. I've had to put things out of their misery when I got to them, but haven't had to track anything through the bush or have it get away. I've helped other people, but it hasn't happened to me. If I have to start guessing at things it's time to let the animal go.
You are totally off the track here.
Gitrdun is evolving his skill set through practice and more practice. He is developing a skill set through this practice that allows him to grow as a hunter.

Just because your skill set may lag his and others, doesn't mean it can't be done.

Now I'm going to temper this with a great big BUT.

This type of shooting is not for everybody, nor should it be.
This type of shooting takes years of practice, and thousands of rounds put down range, and a lot of paper and steel get shot, before a single hair is touched on a living being.
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  #36  
Old 06-16-2017, 07:37 AM
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Agreed. But unethical shots or shooting beyond your skill level or the limitations of your gear leads to all kinds of bad shots. And then there's good old buck fever which we can't do anything about.

I don't think I've wounded an animal to date. I've had to put things out of their misery when I got to them, but haven't had to track anything through the bush or have it get away. I've helped other people, but it hasn't happened to me. If I have to start guessing at things it's time to let the animal go.
That's why we train. Your comfort level for shooting distance depends on your training level. There's no question that I will always TRY to get closer but if it's not possible I train hard so I can make an ethical shot at longer distance. Practice at ranges also gives you a real view of what you can do in the wind so it's easier to make an ethical call on whether to shoot or not.
FYI I have never lost an animal before either but the ones that I had the most difficulty finding where ones that were shot inside of 100 yds. 1 a head shot on a wt doe that took the whole left side of her head ( tracked for about 300yds before she went down) and a bull elk shot at 30 ft in the shoulder bullet just splashed on the bone and the critter got quite a ways before we could put it down for good
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  #37  
Old 06-16-2017, 07:47 AM
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Because someone practise at long range also does not automatically mean theyshoot animals at ranges further than others
Anytime someone starts stating about ethics long range versus short range shooting in a thread things go sideways fast so let's stop that right away .because some think 200 yards is long and others don't
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  #38  
Old 06-16-2017, 07:57 AM
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The more I shoot long range and the more I see what effects the environment can have the closer my max hunting range gets.
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  #39  
Old 06-16-2017, 08:26 AM
Beeman3 Beeman3 is offline
 
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I don't shoot nearly as much as I would like to. The property where I shoot allows me to go out to 910 yds. Rifles I use are 6.5X47, 6.5 SHERMAN, 280 AI, 300 WIN Mag, 25-06 AI. As mentioned earlier out to 500 you can get away with a fair bit. At 700 you better be very close to your right wind call. Beyond 700 wind calls must be dead on. Like others I look at grass or branches at the target and compare to what I am seeing with my wind meter from the shooting location. I am still learning but I find reading the mirage to help me the most. Last fall I had a tricky day to shoot. I shoot straight west and the flag on a builing was showing a north wind. Could feel a breeze on the back of my neck out of the east but mirage was moving South to North. With that said and not knowing what to do; I dialed for a 7 mph wind out of the South and made consistent hits at 910 yds. Years ago without looking at the mirage I am sure I would of missed. As far as some of the posters go on this thread. If you don't like long range hunting/shooting why open a thread like this? As long range shooters most of us spend countless hours doing load development and practicing. No one seems to complain about the guys who blow the dust off there rifle once a year and go out hunting. To me that is much more of a problem than a guy who shoots lots and knows his limitations.
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:10 AM
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That's why I asked what kind of distance he figured was long range. My limits are about 300 yards, maybe a little more if conditions are good. That's with a factory browning medallion and handloads.

I shoot at least two times per month all year. Our range goes out to 565 yards and I'm consistently under 0.5 Moa. Sometimes more, but usually I do pretty good. And that's shooting lapua target bullets, not hunting bullets. My target gun is a lot different than my hunting rig too.

I also asked what calibre he was shooting, because shooting a 55 grain .223 is a lot different than shooting a 300 grain .338 bullet.

Being a responsible hunter, it worries me when I see guys at the range that can ring the 400 m steel (24"x24") with their factory rifle mounted in a lead sled and they figure they're good to hunt at that range. I hear several stories every year where guys guess at a shot and miss. Last year a guy told me how he estimates the distance to a deer to be 400 yards and he went for a head shot, because you either make it or you don't. I think that's pretty poor.

I can tell by some of the comments here that some people are capable of making ethical long shots. I just hope people know their limits. I hate people who wound animals and don't think anything of it.
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  #41  
Old 06-16-2017, 09:20 AM
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This thread was started by a shooter who shoots long range competitions as well as short range competitions and hunts as well .

Several members have also posted in that shoot long range competitions and short range comps as well, and ALL of these people also hunt.
it does not mean that they shoot animals as long as the distances they compete in.
These are also not the type of people to guess the distance of longer ranges nor do they shoot only occasionally.
I know of four shooters in the Canadian shooting Sports Hall of Fame that were all international long range champions and not one of them ever shot an animal past 300 yards , but you can bet they took every precaution and read the wind when they did hunt.

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  #42  
Old 06-16-2017, 09:21 AM
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The fact that nothing was said about mirage kind of hints that maybe a person doesn't shoot that far or often? Just a guess.
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  #43  
Old 06-16-2017, 09:29 AM
tchardy1972 tchardy1972 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
This thread was started by a shooter who shoots long range competitions as well as short range competitions and hunts as well .

Several members have also posted in that shoot long range competitions and short range comps as well, and ALL of these people also hunt.
it does not mean that they shoot animals as long as the distances they compete in.
These are also not the type of people to guess the distance of longer ranges nor do they shoot only occasionally.
I know of four shooters in the Canadian shooting Sports Hall of Fame that were all international long range champions and not one of them ever shot an animal past 300 yards , but you can bet they took every precaution and read the wind when they did hunt.

Cat
Guys that are at the top of their game that you mention most likely check the wind before pulling the trigger on a power tool.
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  #44  
Old 06-16-2017, 09:31 AM
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The fact that nothing was said about mirage kind of hints that maybe a person doesn't shoot that far or often? Just a guess.
Have you ever used mirage to read the wind?
You know when there appears to be no wind but the mirage is moving laterally or at an angle.......

You're trying to throw a wet blanket on a good thread. Add some positives, or maybe just take a bit of a break.
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  #45  
Old 06-16-2017, 09:31 AM
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I used to be pretty good at calling the wind ..... Gopher practise and then got further and further out with targets at the farm.

Sadly not to many gophers left ( gee I wonder why , lol ) and now I don't shoot much with all my kids / lost interest kinda big time. I bet I'm pretty lousy at her now.

At my uncles place now where we got 800 yards. Atm wind seems pretty breezy. After I finish some projects / trail clean up I'm gonna try and get out there today and send some at his 66% man steel target. With my m40 / 308. I'll be definatley putting up a wind flag.

This particular rifle dials out at 600 yards so I'll need to hold over 5 ' approx. for 800. Gonna read thread more later and get back to ya


As for hunting. Mainly varmints ..... Coyotes 2-300 yards with wind common place. Wind adjustment so critical. Usually just aim on one edge of the animal.

And used to hammer the gophers with my 204. Sure it shoots like a laser but 32 grain pills weak against the wind. Taught me a lot picking them off 100-300 yards
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  #46  
Old 06-16-2017, 09:47 AM
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Guys that are at the top of their game that you mention most likely check the wind before pulling the trigger on a power tool.
At least when they use a saw so the sawdust doesn't get into their eyes!
Cat
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  #47  
Old 06-16-2017, 09:51 AM
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The fact that nothing was said about mirage kind of hints that maybe a person doesn't shoot that far or often? Just a guess.
Mirage is an integral part of long range conditions reading and anybody that shoots at distance takes that as second nature.
In fact, anybody that COMPETES takes that as second nature, be it with 3P match rifles at 100 yards or SBR.
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  #48  
Old 06-16-2017, 03:30 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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Funny how folks read into stuff.

So and so's "Long Range Shooting & Hunting"gets folks thinking that the statement means that people are shooting critters at long range because they presume that this is what they just read into.

The key note they missed out on is the word "and."

Long Range Shooting is that of its self,,, hunting is the second part.
This is not saying that folks don't Long Range Shoot too harvest,,, "as there is no and in that statement."

I long range shoot at paper, iron, dirt piles and when I miss I claim to fame the bardwire fence lines at our farm. LOL.

All of my harvests have been with in 40 to 147 yards over the many years,,, and I have no need too push much past this limit as Im not a steady enough fellow.

General plinking is enjoyible for others and my self,,, it keeps us in the loop of building up our skills, refreshing them, and hoping for improvements along the way.

As I'm guessing only that this is what Getterdun's thread is about.

I read into the thread this way, but I could be most likely wrong.

Each too their own as they read into or out-of what their take on the thread is.

Don
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  #49  
Old 06-16-2017, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Don_Parsons View Post
Funny how folks read into stuff.

So and so's "Long Range Shooting & Hunting"gets folks thinking that the statement means that people are shooting critters at long range because they presume that this is what they just read into.

The key note they missed out on is the word "and."

Long Range Shooting is that of its self,,, hunting is the second part.
This is not saying that folks don't Long Range Shoot too harvest,,, "as there is no and in that statement."

I long range shoot at paper, iron, dirt piles and when I miss I claim to fame the bardwire fence lines at our farm. LOL.

All of my harvests have been with in 40 to 147 yards over the many years,,, and I have no need too push much past this limit as Im not a steady enough fellow.

General plinking is enjoyible for others and my self,,, it keeps us in the loop of building up our skills, refreshing them, and hoping for improvements along the way.

As I'm guessing only that this is what Getterdun's thread is about.

I read into the thread this way, but I could be most likely wrong.

Each too their own as they read into or out-of what their take on the thread is.

Don
You are correct in reading the thread as I intended Don.

Shooting long range and especially bucking the wind has become my favourite past time. I enjoy running my load data through ballistic programs. Taking the notes to my range and pulling the trigger to "steer" the projectile to paper. As a means of entertainment, I prefer shooting with wind for a challenge. I use a variety of tools to learn the wind effect. I use an anemometer to measure velocity and compare the reading to how various vegetation reacts, grass, tree branches, leaves and flags that I've put up. I also attempt to make a correlation between those signals and the mirage. When shooting far out there, the mirage most often blurs my small diameter bullet impacts on paper so that I cannot see them through even the best spotting scope. For this reason, I use a Bullseye Camera system. This adds up to a past time and a skill set that hopefully put me contention when entering a match. Do I use the skills that I've learned to "place" my shot when hunting. Of course I do. But, do I stretch it to idiotic ranges, of course not. In fact, the majority of my hunting is done not far from home on a heavily wooded patch where even a 200 yard shot is not likely to happen, where I hunt with my .444 Marlin.
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  #50  
Old 06-16-2017, 05:03 PM
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The fact that nothing was said about mirage kind of hints that maybe a person doesn't shoot that far or often? Just a guess.
You've guessed wrong.
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  #51  
Old 06-16-2017, 06:44 PM
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QUOTE=tchardy1972;3564921]Guys that are at the top of their game that you mention most likely check the wind before pulling the trigger on a power tool.[/QUOTE]
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  #52  
Old 06-16-2017, 07:19 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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Good too hear.

All kinds of Long range shooting is fun.

Whether it be PBR, F-Class, Full-Bore, Iron Silhouette ether in match or personal practic, a past time that hopefully benefits us with in.

Just like every other hobby on the planet where some folks push their limits, others up their game plan,,, and some just get by as they enjoy the personal challange and chatting with other,,, purhaps I fit this category.

The above categories are growing fast, and different kinds of challenging courses are all ready underway in the USA and Canada.

The PBR if thats the right name has about 7 different categories,,, the new-est one is a mental challenging course.

You start off with shooting a 2 shot group at 400 yards at a 12" target... Then get too the next stage too rap off a few pron rounds at a 1" golf ball at 165 yards.

Then too the 6" disk at 200 yards that needs 4 hits in less than 12 seconds.
Followed by a 1200 yard 48" target by shooting off a stack of hay bails.

Your just getting started as its off too the 4" and 10" targets at 350 yards and 600...

Now it's time too get the 3 on 3 going.
3 pron at 6" target at 700 yards.
3 sitting at 8" target at 450 yards.
3 standing at 12" target at 250 or 275 yards.

Now your at the half way point.

Theres a time limit,,, so you better get at it as things get tuffer from there on in.

There are 3 group categories with in this shot, and the folks at the top category are pretty skilled as they have years of training in real life and non-life situations.

They take this too hart and make it look simple.

Those in the second group just get by on the seat of their pants.

The 3rd group misses 80 too 87% of the intended targets.
It takes many years too get too the second level as fitness is a major factor.

Too get too the top level 1 takes many many years.

Hitting a 1" golf ball on a string at 165 yards standing takes alot of skill.

So many challenges at shooting,,, getting the wind reading is part of it, getting the rifle and optics is another,,, then tackling the inner human element with in us is a whole new ball game.

I only share this as there are 100's of shoots out there that each person can choose from.

I don't see any golf balls in my life time as I'm at level none. My attempt at Stock F-Class will decide where I find my self.

Its about personal challange for me so far,,, it will prove to me if I can improve beyond that. Hopefully that is.

Don
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  #53  
Old 06-16-2017, 08:25 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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My bad,,, it's the PRS Extrem Series.

This is too not take away from this thread as its wize too add value of what humans can achieve if they drive them selves too the Extrem quests of being the best they can be.

Another person wrote this article as I copied and pasted it here too explain the above post.

These folks do this in all kinds of weather, might be good to have your ducks sorted as this is like going to the Olympic games of pro shooters from all around the Americas.

The All in package of shooter mind set, rifle, ammo, optics have too work together in this class...
I would rank a big fat zero since I know nothing on how this is even done.

Enjoy the read all as its in its beginning stages, I hope too see this up here in the next few years.

Don

Meet The Pros
You know NASCAR? Yes, I’m talking about the racing-cars-in-a-circle NASCAR. Before NASCAR, there were just a bunch of unaffiliated, regional car races. NASCAR brought structure by unifying those races, and created the idea of a season … and an overall champion. NASCAR identified the top races across the country (that were similar in nature), then combined results and ranked competitors. The Precision Rifle Series (PRS) is like NASCAR, but for rifle matches.

The PRS is a championship style point series race based on the best precision rifle matches nationwide. PRS matches are recognized as the major league of sniper-style rifle matches. These matches aren’t shot from a bench or even on a square range. They feature practical, real-world field conditions, and even some improvised barricades and obstacles to increase the difficulty from hard to you-have-to-be-kidding-me. You won’t be able to take all shots from a prone position, and time stressors keep you from getting to comfortable. Typical target ranges are from 300 to 1200 yards, but each PRS match has a unique personality with creative stages that challenge different aspects of precision shooting. You might start off the day with a single cold bore shot on a small target at 400 yards, then at the next stage make a 1400 yard shot through 3 distinct winds across a canyon, then try to hit a golf ball on a string at 164 yards with no backstop to help you spot misses (can’t make that up), then see how many times you can ring a small 6” target at 1000 yards in 30 seconds, next shoot off a roof top at 10”, 8”, and 6” targets at 600 yards, followed by a speed drill on 1” targets at 200 yards and repeated at 7 yards … plus 10 other stages, and then come back tomorrow and do some more! Many stages involve some type of gaming strategy, and physical fitness can also come into play. For a shooter to place well in multiple matches, they must be an extremely well-rounded shooter who is capable of getting rounds on target in virtually any circumstance.

There are about 15 national-level PRS matches each year. At the end of the year the match scores are evaluated and the top ranked shooters are invited to compete head-to-head in the PRS Championship Match. We surveyed the shooters who qualified for the championship, asking all kinds of questions about the equipment they ran that season. This is a great set of data, because 100 shooters is a significant sample size, and this particular group are experts among experts. It includes guys like George Gardner (President/Senior Rifle Builder of GA Precision), Wade Stuteville of Stuteville Precision, Jim See of Center Shot Rifles, Matt Parry of Parry Custom Gun, Aaron Roberts of Roberts Precision Rifles, shooters from the US Army Marksmanship Unit, and many other world-class shooters.

Think of the best shooter you know … it’s actually very unlikely that person is good enough to break into the top 100. I know I’m not! I competed against a few of these guys for the first time earlier this year, and I was humbled. It’s incredible what these guys can do with a rifle. For example, the match in Oklahoma I was in had a station that required you to engage 4 steel targets scattered at random distances from 300 to 800 yards, and you only had 15 seconds! I think I hit 2, and rushed my 3rd shot. I didn’t even get the 4th shot off! But, one of these guys cleaned that stage with 4 seconds to spare! Yep, he got 4 rounds on target at distance in 11 seconds. That’s the caliber of shooter we’re talking about. It’s very different from benchrest or F-class competitions, but make no mistake … these guys are serious marksmen.

Thanks to Rich Emmons for allowing me to share this info. To find out more about the PRS, check out What Is The Precision Rifle Series? or watch this video to see it in action.
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  #54  
Old 06-16-2017, 09:59 PM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is offline
 
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The more I shoot long range and the more I see what effects the environment can have the closer my max hunting range gets.
Well said.
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:24 PM
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At least when they use a saw so the sawdust doesn't get into their eyes!
Cat
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:24 PM
J0HN_R1 J0HN_R1 is offline
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I was out shooting in the wind today, just at the base of the Rockies where the wind is gusty & unpredictable.

I think they were about 20-25km gusts, with an average of about 10-15km/hr winds. Sometimes it would drop-off dead flat, no wind, but would only last 30-60 seconds before it kicked back up again.

It was challenging, and to my surprise (because of a long break in the wind) I hit the gong more @ 500 meters with my .223 than I did my .243.

I think my scope is off on the 243, I'll have to confirm zero @ 100m again... I just reassembled the gun again recently.

Practice makes perfect !
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  #57  
Old 06-16-2017, 11:15 PM
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Yup. Tried about 10 shots at 800 yards. Didn't hit the target. Wind was down to zero then breezy then this way then that way. Aside from one shot low and left i couldn't tell where they were going.

My aunt and uncle too busy on there I pads to come spot for me. Lol. There worse than kids I think.

Yup. Definatley a hard skill to master !
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  #58  
Old 06-17-2017, 11:07 AM
J0HN_R1 J0HN_R1 is offline
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...

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  #59  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:22 AM
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Wind shooting is realistic shooting. That is why I think (you don't have to agree with me) that gopher shooting is an excellent way to sharpen shooting skills. As you all know gophers never pop up in the ideal distance, and not for long. As long as I know where the wind blowing from, I can guesstimate how much to hold into the wind to make the shot. This year I started to shoot on foot and off hand. That is a nice challenge.

Belus
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:57 AM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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The winds and mirages were challenging this folks yesterday at the 7, 8, & 900 meter range.


At first the winds were dead heading the shooters, then they split into different directions at the same time.

These folks a awesome at keeping on target little lone my skills too even hit the edges of the paper.


Shooting long range with flags is at distance is hard,,, doing off range in field is 2 too 3 X's tuffer.

I took up station off range after the shoot with my M77 too find out that the winds play havoc on me at 300 yards.

Its a full time job staying on top of this, so my next build is a fold away 8' target too push my self limits.


The challange of constancy is slowly sinking in,,, I only hope that I get 30 years more too figer it out. LOL.


Don
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