Need some help! rem 700 accuracy issues

[bsmitty27]

I my father in-law gave me a 700 in 243. He said it used to shoot OK. But it won't group under 2 feet now. I removed and re installed the rings and based I installed a reliable scope no changes. He tried to bed the rifle and made a mess. I removed most of the botched epoxy job, free floated the barrel. Action seems to be sitting good now. Still wont group under 2 feet. I'm assuming the bedding job is at least part of the problem. Father in-law is known to run some hot loads as well but the barrel looks OK. Any ideas or tips. I have shot different manufactures and different grain bullets with no effect. Any ideas are welcome.
Thanks
Brad

[gitrdun]

If as you say, the action is sitting ok, I would start by checking the crown for damage. Then I would scrub the barrel clean of copper fouling using Barnes CR10 or Wipeout. Once these 2 items are checked and/or corrected, then a proper bedding job. Keeping in mind that the .243 may not yield more than 1500 shots before throat erosion rears it's ugly head, even sooner if he's ran hot loads. Good luck.

[3blade]

Crown damage or the entire barrel is not ok. Hot loads in a hot cartridge are a recipe for burnout.

I'd get it bore scoped before continuing to spend time on it.

Edit: gitrdun beat me to it.

[TUFFBUFF]

First thing I do when I get a new to me used rifle is clean it, last one I got took 3 days with patch out and butchs bore shine! Wasted 1/2 bag patches.
Then take it apart including the bolt and clean everything else. Brake clean trigger and bolt and check mag box for general fit. Then G96 everything and put it back together, action screws 40lbs front and 30 back.

2ft sounds excessive, how did it shoot before? Od chance the barrel popped loose? Heard of this on sakos before. Maybe bulged the last bit of barrel from snow or a bit of dirt in there?

[propliner]

Be careful with some copper removers in a stainless barrel. They can react with the stainless and make your patch look black. I think the ammonia ones are the worst. It can cause you to think the barrel is still dirty, and all the while you're etching and scrubbing away good metal.

[Ranger CS]

I have four Rem 700s and had to work on all of them to make them shoot to my satisfaction. Bedding definitely helps, however mine do not like free floating and perform better with some barrel pressure. I would suggest if you have not done rebidding to take it to someone who is good at it, or a qualified gunsmith. One of my rifles is also vary fussy as to type and weight of bullet. You might also make sure the barrel totally clean and free of any lead and copper fouling.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by propliner

Be careful with some copper removers in a stainless barrel. They can react with the stainless and make your patch look black. I think the ammonia ones are the worst. It can cause you to think the barrel is still dirty, and all the while you're etching and scrubbing away good metal.

This is a bunch of malarchy!

I currently have 6 stainless barrels, and probably have owned well over a dozen through the years. Black is carbon, powder, or bullet coating, fouling. It has nothing to do with solvents and barrel steel.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

I have four Rem 700s and had to work on all of them to make them shoot to my satisfaction. Bedding definitely helps, however mine do not like free floating and perform better with some barrel pressure. I would suggest if you have not done rebidding to take it to someone who is good at it, or a qualified gunsmith. One of my rifles is also vary fussy as to type and weight of bullet. You might also make sure the barrel totally clean and free of any lead and copper fouling.

My last three 700's did not mirror your results. .223, .243, and 30'06.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=214860

[Slicktricker]

My 40 year old rem 700 sure shoots very well its first 30 years were not taking very well care of

[Ranger CS]

Originally Posted by Dick284

My last three 700's did not mirror your results. .223, .243, and 30'06.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=214860

Wow, impressive results. Mine are, 25-06, 270, and 2(7mm Mags)
They all have a little age on them. One made in late 60's, 2 early 70's and one early 80's. Did you have to work on your rifles to get the results you have?

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

Wow, impressive results. Mine are, 25-06, 270, and 2(7mm Mags)
They all have a little age on them. One made in late 60's, 2 early 70's and one early 80's. Did you have to work on your rifles to get the results you have?

Those groups in the linked thread, were all stock except for the boys .223 had an aftermarket trigger installed. Since then the stocks were stiffened, bedding done, and some fine tuning in load development. Yes they shoot a smidge better now.

Most aspiring shooters suffer from 3 ills.
1, HMI issues.
2, suspect reloading techniques.
3, rushing and failed repeatability.(tail chasing)

[Ranger CS]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Those groups in the linked thread, were all stock except for the boys .223 had an aftermarket trigger installed. Since then the stocks were stiffened, bedding done, and some fine tuning in load development. Yes they shoot a smidge better now.

Most aspiring shooters suffer from 3 ills.
1, HMI issues.
2, suspect reloading techniques.
3, rushing and failed repeatability.(tail chasing)

How well does your 30-06 group? What is HMI?

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

How well does your 30-06 group? What is HMI?

The 30'06 shot 180's and heavier very well, but struggled on lighter pills, so I had it rebarreled because I'm not a great lover of 30 cal 180's. First reloads with 180's were sub MOA, 165's and 150's wouldn't shrink below 1-1/2 MOA.
It's now a 280AI, but only cuz of my 180 predjudice.

Human
Machine
Interface

A nice way of saying the skill set lags behind the equipment potential.

[fps plus]

I would suspect the muzzle has been damaged .sometimes it is very faint and hard to see .

Have it checked

[bsmitty27]

Think I'll get the muzzle checked before I spend anymore time on it.
Will keep updates coming.

[SpectreBallistics]

Originally Posted by bsmitty27

I my father in-law gave me a 700 in 243. He said it used to shoot OK. But it won't group under 2 feet now. I removed and re installed the rings and based I installed a reliable scope no changes. He tried to bed the rifle and made a mess. I removed most of the botched epoxy job, free floated the barrel. Action seems to be sitting good now. Still wont group under 2 feet. I'm assuming the bedding job is at least part of the problem. Father in-law is known to run some hot loads as well but the barrel looks OK. Any ideas or tips. I have shot different manufactures and different grain bullets with no effect. Any ideas are welcome.
Thanks
Brad

Is the barrel on straight and hows the crown look? Sounds like a crown issue, but could also be the barrel is not mounted right. Unfortunately the bedding job probably ruined the warranty, but you could always ask Remington.

[ak-71]

Originally Posted by propliner

Be careful with some copper removers in a stainless barrel. They can react with the stainless and make your patch look black. I think the ammonia ones are the worst. It can cause you to think the barrel is still dirty, and all the while you're etching and scrubbing away good metal.

Depends on what material your brush is, isn't it?

[Robmcleod82]

Make sure your recoil lug has clearance on the bottom, make sure there is no bedding protruding into the trigger pin bores, make sure mag isn't binding in stock, make sure front base screw isn't contacting barrel threads, check for excessive copper fouling, make sure front action screw isn't touching bolt head, if brass is old anneal necks. 2 foot groups is more than likely more than one issue.

[fps plus]

I often see barrels that are damaged near the muzzle , the crowns do not looked damaged but usually a groove or two has been bulged.

This is due to a drop of moisture being in the bore and being fired.
It only takes a drop of rain water or a little over zealous application of oil or solvent

It take an experienced eye to see the damage
Sometimes you can feel a loose spot when pushing a tight fittin patch.

I had to educate one of the guys I hunt with as we were out hunting in the rain and when we go close to the truck he fired his rifle( no tape over barrel ). I asked him what the heck was he doing ? "Shooting the rain out of his barrel " I explained the problems of doing this and sure enough he had bulged the barrel.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Robmcleod82

Make sure your recoil lug has clearance on the bottom

That's interesting. But it isn't detrimental to accuracy in and of itself.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by fps plus

I often see barrels that are damaged near the muzzle , the crowns do not looked damaged but usually a groove or two has been bulged.

This is due to a drop of moisture being in the bore and being fired.
It only takes a drop of rain water or a little over zealous application of oil or solvent

It take an experienced eye to see the damage
Sometimes you can feel a loose spot when pushing a tight fittin patch.

I had to educate one of the guys I hunt with as we were out hunting in the rain and when we go close to the truck he fired his rifle( no tape over barrel ). I asked him what the heck was he doing ? "Shooting the rain out of his barrel " I explained the problems of doing this and sure enough he had bulged the barrel.

One drop of rain?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by chuck

One drop of rain?

It must have been a really big drop.

I would hate to think just how many rifle barrels have had a bullet path through them while there was a drop of moisture in them, and it would be interesting to know just how many of them ended up with bulges in them. That being said, I do dry swab barrels after cleaning them, and I do use electrical tape over the muzzle when hunting.

[fps plus]

Absolutely a drop of moisture in a bore's muzzle can cause damage if a bullet is shot over it

[stob]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Crown damage or the entire barrel is not ok. Hot loads in a hot cartridge are a recipe for burnout.

I'd get it bore scoped before continuing to spend time on it.

Edit: gitrdun beat me to it.

X2

[Robmcleod82]

Originally Posted by chuck

That's interesting. But it isn't detrimental to accuracy in and of itself.

Depending on how it was bedded there is the potential there to put a fair bit of stress on the action. Like I said before I would think there is more than one issue at work here. With problem rifles I've rarely found only one culprit at play. I've yet to encounter one with a bulged muzzle so not sure how badly that could effect accuracy.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by SpectreBallistics

but could also be the barrel is not mounted right.

they probably threaded the wrong end into the action. it happens all the time

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

they probably threaded the wrong end into the action. it happens all the time

I may have to disagree. I think the dimension of the muzzle is often much smaller than the chamber end. It would fall out of the action.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by fps plus

Absolutely a drop of moisture in a bore's muzzle can cause damage if a bullet is shot over it

How is one drop of water surviving long enough for the bullet to even reach it?

[fps plus]

Originally Posted by chuck

How is one drop of water surviving long enough for the bullet to even reach it?

Yes it does make one wonder doesn't it . The physics of it is quite interesting

There was some good info on it but I can't remember what journal it was in . I will look in my reference material . It may have been PO Ackley books

Feel free to take an eye dropper and put a drop of water in the bore approx 1/4 in from the muzzle of a rifle and fire

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by fps plus

Yes it does make one wonder doesn't it . The physics of it is quite interesting

There was some good info on it but I can't remember what journal it was in . I will look in my reference material . It may have been PO Ackley books

Feel free to take an eye dropper and put a drop of water in the bore approx 1/4 in from the muzzle of a rifle and fire

Would the pressure wave in front of the bullet not force the water out of the barrel before the bullet ever gets there? I would think that if water was so detrimental to rifling, rifles would have come equipped for the last century or so with fool proof methods of keeping the water out.