Be very careful with dog purchases

[wwbirds]

it is that time again when many families will decide to take on a new puppy in spring. Here are a few recommendations.
Do your research on not only the breed you are looking at but the congenital problems specific to that breed.
Ask the right questions of the breeder for it is often a sign they have not done the appropriate testing if they don't mention those things to you.
If you decide to look at a purebred dog they are considered purebred because a paper trail exists showing they are suitable for specific purposes (such as hunting) for at least 5 generations.
A non papered dog is not purebred as you have no confirmation the parents presented are actually the parents or will have the hereditary traits or health of that breed.
Be very specific in what you are looking for so if hunting is the ultimate goal ensure you see hunting, field trial or working certificates in the pedigree.
If you only look for a brown or yellow dog (as in labs) that is exactly what you will get.
Neither color guarantees the parents are trainable or have the instinct or desire to hunt.
There is often a huge difference between pet quality and field quality dogs. See pedigrees, see clearances for eyes and hips, EIC or other factors which could have you spend hundreds of hours on your new friend only to find they lack the physical ability or attitude to fullfil your dreams.
As with anything caveat emptor

[sns2]

Great advice WW.

[wwbirds]

the backyard breeders are advertising "purebred" but unpapered pups which in itself is an offense under the livestock pedigree act. If they have no papers they are not purebred and saying such is an insult to reputable breeders designed to sell dogs to the uneducated buyer that doesn't know any better.
Advertising under hunting items is further fraud which I feel should be banned.
You have been burned by similar tactics when you didnt know any better SNS2 and didnt know the right questions to ask. Just trying to prevent it from happening to someone else who may seek advice or training help this summer only to be told they have been scammed.

[Rackmastr]

Great post. There are some amazing resources on this site and sure helped me do some research on puppy buying!

[Rancid Crabtree]

My background is herding dogs, border collies.
I can’t stress enough see the parents work doing jobs that you want your dog to do. Also a experienced breeder will probably have close relatives available to see working. Ask for why this pair has been chosen to mate.
A good answer is that one parent is strong in a trait the other could improve on.
A bad answer is these are the dogs we have. Also ask how many dogs were sorted thru before finding a breeding quality dog.

[elkhunter11]

And depending on the breed of dog , some organizations have some very strict guidelines, in order to be registered as a purebred. VDD for example , is very particular which dogs can be registered with them, which helps to avoid dogs with issues.

[Who Da Fisherman]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

the backyard breeders are advertising "purebred" but unpapered pups which in itself is an offense under the livestock pedigree act. If they have no papers they are not purebred and saying such is an insult to reputable breeders designed to sell dogs to the uneducated buyer that doesn't know any better.
Advertising under hunting items is further fraud which I feel should be banned.
You have been burned by similar tactics when you didnt know any better SNS2 and didnt know the right questions to ask. Just trying to prevent it from happening to someone else who may seek advice or training help this summer only to be told they have been scammed.

here is one, Purebred but unpapered
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=375966

[buckbrush]

Made this mistake with a St. Bernard.

Found out after the fact. Bad knees and hips. The cost was huge but the real pain came from having to put him down years too soon.

Great post.

[SuperCub]

The biggest mistake a lot of folk make is to buy a breed that does not match their lifestyle. A good example is when people buy a high energy dog and leave it alone all day while both are working and are too tired to run the guts out of it at the end of the day. A dog like this becomes bored, hard to handle and destructive and in the end goes to the pound.

There's a lot of people out there that should not even own a dog.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Who Da Fisherman

here is one, Purebred but unpapered
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=375966

Thank you for pointing that out. The ad was edited to highlight the fact that they are not registered and it has been moved to miscellaneous.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

the backyard breeders are advertising "purebred" but unpapered pups which in itself is an offense under the livestock pedigree act. If they have no papers they are not purebred and saying such is an insult to reputable breeders designed to sell dogs to the uneducated buyer that doesn't know any better.
Advertising under hunting items is further fraud which I feel should be banned.
You have been burned by similar tactics when you didnt know any better SNS2 and didnt know the right questions to ask. Just trying to prevent it from happening to someone else who may seek advice or training help this summer only to be told they have been scammed.

Oh, I asked all the right questions. I was just flat out lied to on a number of different levels by the owner, and a "professional trainer" who shall remain unnamed, but who continues to charge people in excess of $1000 month for the training of hunting dogs, but that's a whole other story.

The world of dogs is fraught with fakes, fraudsters, and posers.

If you are buying a "started dog", as I was a few years back, do not take the word of internet friends, do not take the word of anyone who may have a vested interest or have had a hand in training said dog. Not everyone is a crook, but trust your eyes and only your eyes. I should have not been so impulsive, and asked for video of the dog in action. I also should have did what I did as a teenager, which was to go out to a series of training days at a dog club, and talk to people with impressive dogs.

I should have known better. 100% my fault. Caveat emptor. Buyer beware.

It was a colossal waste of cash, and much worse a heart wrenching experience.

[ganderblaster]

Originally Posted by buckbrush

Made this mistake with a St. Bernard.

Found out after the fact. Bad knees and hips. The cost was huge but the real pain came from having to put him down years too soon.

Great post.

This. My second retriever was an unpapered Chesapeake absolutely a heck of an amazing dog but had to be put down early as his hips went out. The money can always be made, but putting down a dog early is a terrible waste. I have arrangements with Diesel Wiesel for another pup and the research and time he is putting into the upcoming breeding is unreal. Stuff can still happen even to good breeders but why not put all the odds you can in your favour.
Another pet peeve of mine is guys who buy dogs on an emotional whim and then have no training program but insist on bringing the dog hunting then abuse it when it doesn’t listen and spooks birds. You don’t have to be that great of a trainer to get a well bred dog to follow the basics while out hunting. Hunt tests are another level,but I have had two very good hunting retrievers with just very basic dog behaviour knowledge and Richard Wolters book Water Dog.

[urban rednek]

I wish I'd known this earlier. On a positive note, it is a great mouser.

[WinefredCommander]

WW always has great advice!

[Trochu]

Darn it, now I want another dog!

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Darn it, now I want another dog!

Could I interest you in a purebred silver lab???

[WinefredCommander]

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

Could I interest you in a purebred silver lab???

How about a purebred labradoodle??

[Grizzly Adams]

Actually a Mutt from a Rescue has a lot to recommend it, as a family dog.

Grizz

[ward]

Originally Posted by sns2

Oh, I asked all the right questions. I was just flat out lied to on a number of different levels by the owner, and a "professional trainer" who shall remain unnamed, but who continues to charge people in excess of $1000 month for the training of hunting dogs, but that's a whole other story.

The world of dogs is fraught with fakes, fraudsters, and posers.

If you are buying a "started dog", as I was a few years back, do not take the word of internet friends, do not take the word of anyone who may have a vested interest or have had a hand in training said dog. Not everyone is a crook, but trust your eyes and only your eyes. I should have not been so impulsive, and asked for video of the dog in action. I also should have did what I did as a teenager, which was to go out to a series of training days at a dog club, and talk to people with impressive dogs.

I should have known better. 100% my fault. Caveat emptor. Buyer beware.

It was a colossal waste of cash, and much worse a heart wrenching experience.

How about an approximate location so a person does not end up in the same situation as you ?

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

Could I interest you in a purebred silver lab???

Only if it's $1,200.00 plus, as that guarantees it's a quality pup...

I'm kind of a Great Dane guy, something about matching lifestyles was mentioned above.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by ward

How about an approximate location so a person does not end up in the same situation as you ?

Here is the best way I can respond. If anyone ever wanted to chat, I would be happy to do so via pm.

If anyone is serious about having someone train a hunting dog for them, we have a great trainer who started this thread! If you have a breed he does not regularly train, I know for certain that WWBirds will steer you in the right direction.

[does it ALL outdoors]

Originally Posted by SuperCub

The biggest mistake a lot of folk make is to buy a breed that does not match their lifestyle. A good example is when people buy a high energy dog and leave it alone all day while both are working and are too tired to run the guts out of it at the end of the day. A dog like this becomes bored, hard to handle and destructive and in the end goes to the pound.

There's a lot of people out there that should not even own a dog.

Agree 100% on both counts.

I have a friend that lives in a TINY house that she can almost touch all 4 walls without moving and almost no yard, just a small deck.

She's been wanting a dog for quite a while so we have been trying to talk her out of it until she's ready and has a decent place to live or at the very least steering her towards something small (not a yap-rat) and manageable since it would be home alone for extended periods as she and her room mate work long hours, so what does she get? A full grown Pitt-boxer cross that is out of control jumping all over people, knocking people down and dosent listen and snotts all over you

Now she can't figure out why nobody comes to visit her anymore

[Tungsten,]

Did someone mention high energy? How about lab whippet cross. Runs like the wind. Points with one paw up straight tail.Crazy fast.

[elkhunter11]

Buy a dog that fits your lifestyle, and be honest with what you can provide for the dog. I waited until I retired before purchasing a hunting dog, because I didn't have the time to spend with the dog when I was working. I am in the field with my dog for about an hour every day, and he is very calm and well behaved in the house. If I didn't have him off leash in the field every day, he wouldn't have the opportunity to burn off the energy , and would likely cause issues at home.

[trophybook]

Originally Posted by Tungsten,

Did someone mention high energy? How about lab whippet cross. Runs like the wind. Points with one paw up straight tail.Crazy fast.

That's what I got, came from up by mundare.
But more labish if that's a word lol goes crazy for birds

[SuperCub]

Originally Posted by WinefredCommander

How about a purebred labradoodle??

Those dogs are total goons. I think I've only met one that wasn't.

[skain11]

Meet my total goon Izzy...we got her after 20 years of labs for some daughter allergy issues that have been somewhat lessened with the reduced dog hair loss. She is a pheasant machine ...and yes my safety vest went on after the pic as we headed afield. Great general advice from ww...if your dog choice positively enhances your life then I don't care what it looks like or what is it's heritage.

[Mountain7]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

it is that time again when many families will decide to take on a new puppy in spring. Here are a few recommendations.
Do your research on not only the breed you are looking at but the congenital problems specific to that breed.
Ask the right questions of the breeder for it is often a sign they have not done the appropriate testing if they don't mention those things to you.
If you decide to look at a purebred dog they are considered purebred because a paper trail exists showing they are suitable for specific purposes (such as hunting) for at least 5 generations.
A non papered dog is not purebred as you have no confirmation the parents presented are actually the parents or will have the hereditary traits or health of that breed.
Be very specific in what you are looking for so if hunting is the ultimate goal ensure you see hunting, field trial or working certificates in the pedigree.
If you only look for a brown or yellow dog (as in labs) that is exactly what you will get.
Neither color guarantees the parents are trainable or have the instinct or desire to hunt.
There is often a huge difference between pet quality and field quality dogs. See pedigrees, see clearances for eyes and hips, EIC or other factors which could have you spend hundreds of hours on your new friend only to find they lack the physical ability or attitude to fullfil your dreams.
As with anything caveat emptor

Thanks for this information!