H&R 410-44 Cal

[awionzek6]

Last Patented February 27, 1900. Any input appreciated. Have an old box of Dominion 44-40 Shot as well. What is safe to shoot in these guns ? 410 was in 2” back then I believe or not

[wwbirds]

The 410 is actually a european designation that was considered the "garden gun" in early 1900's.
North American servicemen brought the ".410" to this continent when they returned from the first world war. The earliest US production that I am aware of for the 44 shot (smooth bore) was by Stevens and that patent was 1906.
The actual 410 doesnt appear in us manufacturers literature until about 1915. Not sure what you have but if it is a rifled barrel it is probably a 44-40 which will often shoot a 410 shell if 2.5 inches.

The history of the .410 shotgun is a bit murky, but it seems to have originated in Europe, probably Germany, around 1910. This explains why the 1908 Sears and Roebuck catalog lists many, many shotguns for sale but no .410s. In Europe, the cartridge was given a metric designation, 12 mm. As our name indicates, however, the gun has a bore diameter of .410 inches, and this is a different way of expressing the size of the gun than is used with other shotguns, for which the term “gauge” is used. Remington-UMC manufactured 2-inch and 2-1/2 inch .410 ammo beginning in 1915. Winchester followed suit in 1916. Sources say that the Iver Johnson Champion appeared in 1909, but it was made in many gauges, and it is likely that the .410 appeared at a later date. At any rate, the .410 was in operation well before 1920. Someone with access to old gun and ammunition catalogs may find other interesting info.

[Grizzly Adams]

Would a 2" .410 even fit ? Case length according to my book is 1.33 "

Grizz

[awionzek6]

Yup it’s a smooth bore and 410 3” goes in

[golfnolsen]

I have an old Iver Johnson & cycle works .44 cal break action... similar to what you described... I took into a WSS and the owner brought out a book and showed me a picture of it and info saying it took 44 XL. Essentially it's the predecessor to the 410 cartridge. The cartridge has a 44 cal brass with a paper extension. (google it) - it's very old. (turn of the century).
I thought I'd share my experience with what sounds like the same gun as mine.
good luck,

[wwbirds]

If chambered like a normal shotgun a 3 inch may fit in but the end of the shell is in what they call the forcing cone. That is where the paper or plastic opens up when shell is fired. I have a 44 shot which I use 2.5 inch 410 shells in but I wont try a 3 inch due to the above.

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

A friend of mine blew the end off a small 410 backpacker one time. Loaded a 44cal into it and he didn’t realize the barrel was tapered at the end. Needless to say the barrel isn’t tapered anymore!