Another 'It's the owner not the dog' thread

[4K3OGH]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Also have had a lot of at work training sessions where I've learned a thing or two.
But I guess that's my experience and not yours

As have I, however theres not a person on here that can say every mandated course theyve taken theyve enjoyed.

<3

[4K3OGH]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Pit bulls are very easy to recognize, they are the ones with their jaws locked on other dogs or people. Ken you nailed it with the lethal dog chart. End of conversation!

[bucksman]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Yeah, this happened about 3 blocks from where I live give or take...I actually didn't hear about it for almost a week after it happened, but my kids take our dogs (min schnauzer and chihuahua maltese crose) out walking in the field behind our place, where this nice doggy has been hanging out for the two weeks since the attack. Must be more bad owners, since this breed of dog is notorious for being the gentlest most harmless dog on planet Earth. So sad it got 'euthanized' by the police....or not.

http://www.dailyheraldtribune.com/20...till-not-found

And such shocking spin, to call this dog vicious! Horror.....although in fairness, looking at the picture of the lady who got chewed, it does seem like it didn't miss her jugular by much.

http://www.dailyheraldtribune.com/20...ad-by-mounties

Defenders, commence to defend this harmless breed.

any idea if these are the same dogs?

https://everythinggp.com/article/527...officer-bitten

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Exactly, I have never heard an owner say, ya I could see that happening a mile away.

I did when I had a Shepard husky cross, had is the key word,dirt nap after he turned on me...seen that coming a mile away....just some pet owners are just how do I say it without offending....."simple".... But are ..."simple" in all aspects of life....is that offensive?

[Okotok]

Originally Posted by bucksman

any idea if these are the same dogs?

https://everythinggp.com/article/527...officer-bitten

One is a mastiff and the other is a pitbull cross obviously.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by bucksman

any idea if these are the same dogs?

https://everythinggp.com/article/527...officer-bitten

That is a different pair of dogs entirely, but another situation of repeat offender 'rescue dogs' that the owner has no real control over by all accounts. But by all means, don't put them down, what are the odds they will hurt anyone AGAIN??

Jesus but some dog owners are stupid. I love my pets too, but if they harmed people or other animals, not once or twice but multiple times....c'mon already, put them down.

[bucksman]

Originally Posted by Okotok

One is a mastiff and the other is a pitbull cross obviously.

Quote from twisted articles
"The woman was walking in the area of 86 Street and 103 Avenue with two small dogs when she was attacked by two pit bull type dogs"

Quote from the article i posted
"Joshua Gougeon's dogs Marley and Dexter are both bully breeds"

Was just convenient the events are so close together, obviously

[buckbrush]

No use for dogs like that. I've seen people who have trained pitbulls to be tame and decent around other dogs. I've also seen people who thought they had trained their pitbulls and "never expected them to do that".

When a certain animal breed has been selectively bred for many generations to do one thing it is going to lack the traits that other breeds focus on.

These "fighting" breeds have been bred to be tenacious, have high prey drive, strong jaws ect. When your pitbulls ancestors were being bred for fighting were they going to breed the one who had a calm temper and good with kids or would they pick the meanest ones they had?

The way I think about it is horses. Yes I can put a pack on a thoroughbred but that doesn't mean it would make a good pack horse. You can get a Clide to run fast but he's not going to win any races. Could probably train a Shetland pony to be a roping horse but....you might get laughed at.
Just like dogs horses have been selectively bred for different attributes that training can only change so much.

[223MB]

After nearly losing my heeler last summer and a $3,000 vet bill I refuse to let my dogs and future kids to be around them. Yes owners are to blame but they are powerful killers and a ticking time bomb.

[Tundra Monkey]

Here’s an interesting read about those stats.

http://stubbydog.org/2012/05/pit-bulls-by-the-numbers/

I fall into the bad owners category.

I think these types of terriers are a pretty good looking dogs. Be a pretty good companion in the bush I would think. If I didn’t like Karelians so much I would probably be a 48 yr old DB 🤔

If your dog (any breed) shows aggression towards people it needs to be dealt with. Maybe one chance if it is a minor incident.

<edit> just cuz i’m Google smart:

https://www.pitbullinfo.org/


.

[fitzy]

I find it interesting around this place how when certain subjects fit someone's narrative they buy into media reports and any old fact laying around but when it's something they don't agree with they research the validity of every claim made on the subject.

If I say the media skews information about the AR15 and other guns to make them look bad because they're a popular target you'd agree nearly on mass.

If I say the information presented in the media is skewed to make pitbulls look bad because they're a popular target you'd call me a fool.

[Tundra Monkey]

Hey Fitzy!!!

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by fitzy

I find it interesting around this place how when certain subjects fit someone's narrative they buy into media reports and any old fact laying around but when it's something they don't agree with they research the validity of every claim made on the subject.

If I say the media skews information about the AR15 and other guns to make them look bad because they're a popular target you'd agree nearly on mass.

If I say the information presented in the media is skewed to make pitbulls look bad because they're a popular target you'd call me a fool.

I'd say you are foolish to compare a sentient animal like a dog with an inanimate object like a firearm, or a shovel, or a brick.

The media can skew things any way they want, but they weren't around when we buried my wife's sister who was mauled to death by a pair of Rottweilers, and neither were you.

You call it a 'narrative', I call it being deliberately obtuse on the part of those who can't admit to genetic traits and characteristics that have been bred into animals. Your 'informed' opinion doesn't mean a damn thing to those whose lives and families have been irrevocably harmed or destroyed.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by fitzy

I find it interesting around this place how when certain subjects fit someone's narrative they buy into media reports and any old fact laying around but when it's something they don't agree with they research the validity of every claim made on the subject.

If I say the media skews information about the AR15 and other guns to make them look bad because they're a popular target you'd agree nearly on mass.

If I say the information presented in the media is skewed to make pitbulls look bad because they're a popular target you'd call me a fool.

Ya pretty much this.

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

I'd say you are foolish to compare a sentient animal like a dog with an inanimate object like a firearm, or a shovel, or a brick.

The media can skew things any way they want, but they weren't around when we buried my wife's sister who was mauled to death by a pair of Rottweilers, and neither were you.

You call it a 'narrative', I call it being deliberately obtuse on the part of those who can't admit to genetic traits and characteristics that have been bred into animals. Your 'informed' opinion doesn't mean a damn thing to those whose lives and families have been irrevocably harmed or destroyed.

I'm well aware there's a difference between a dog and a brick but call me what you will.
I'm sorry for your loss but your arguments are being used by some of the victims of school shootings. If you want close your eyes and stomp your feet about it go ahead doesn't make it any less true.

[catnthehat]

All this talk about non instinctive prey drive and all the other crap about bad owners not bad dogs etc is just that .
Anybody who says that some breeds are not instinctively fighters has never seen a GSP pup lock up solid on a bird wing , watch a young walker go right after a fox trail , or watch three puppies see a stick thrown and the lab pup be the only one to hit the water after it .
I once watched a Newfoundland puppy try to break free of his owner' grasp when his buddy started flailing around in the water just to show me how the puppy had the instinctive drive to rescue his Pal!

That stuff is bred into breeds , so is aggressiveness .

Any dog needs to be controlled in public and if it gets loose and does damage to property or people it's on the owner , that is my opinion .
Cat

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

All this talk about non instinctive prey drive and all the other crap about bad owners not bad dogs etc is just that .
Anybody who says that some breeds are not instinctively fighters has never seen a GSP pup lock up solid on a bird wing , watch a young walker go right after a fox trail , or watch three puppies see a stick thrown and the lab pup be the only one to hit the water after it .
I once watched a Newfoundland puppy try to break free of his owner' grasp when his buddy started flailing around in the water just to show me how the puppy had the instinctive drive to rescue his Pal!

That stuff is bred into breeds , so is aggressiveness .

Any dog needs to be controlled in public and if it gets loose and does damage to property or people it's on the owner , that is my opinion .
Cat

I tell you instinctive ways....put a bowl of spaghetti complete with meatballs and sauce in front of my lab....blink once....bowl empty. Now that's my fault for thinking she would change her ways.

[4K3OGH]

Originally Posted by fitzy

I find it interesting around this place how when certain subjects fit someone's narrative they buy into media reports and any old fact laying around but when it's something they don't agree with they research the validity of every claim made on the subject.

If I say the media skews information about the AR15 and other guns to make them look bad because they're a popular target you'd agree nearly on mass.

If I say the information presented in the media is skewed to make pitbulls look bad because they're a popular target you'd call me a fool.

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

I tell you instinctive ways....put a bowl of spaghetti complete with meatballs and sauce in front of my lab....blink once....bowl empty. Now that's my fault for thinking she would change her ways.

Same thing happens if you put it in front of me lol

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

All this talk about non instinctive prey drive and all the other crap about bad owners not bad dogs etc is just that .
Anybody who says that some breeds are not instinctively fighters has never seen a GSP pup lock up solid on a bird wing , watch a young walker go right after a fox trail , or watch three puppies see a stick thrown and the lab pup be the only one to hit the water after it .
I once watched a Newfoundland puppy try to break free of his owner' grasp when his buddy started flailing around in the water just to show me how the puppy had the instinctive drive to rescue his Pal!

That stuff is bred into breeds , so is aggressiveness .

Any dog needs to be controlled in public and if it gets loose and does damage to property or people it's on the owner , that is my opinion .
Cat

Can't deny genetics. We had a Duck Toller growing up and watching her work a shore line to pull ducks in close was amazing. Dad didn't spend 5 minutes training her. He'd only say go to work Gypsy and off she'd go.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by 223MB

After nearly losing my heeler last summer and a $3,000 vet bill I refuse to let my dogs and future kids to be around them. Yes owners are to blame but they are powerful killers and a ticking time bomb.

Heelers are working dogs, specifically bred to enforce their will by nipping at the heels of cattle or sheep, that's why they call them Heelers, Duh, which makes them one of the least trustworthy dogs to be around. Definitely not a family pet. The few dog bites I've had, have come from Heelers I misjudged.

Grizz

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Heelers are working dogs, specifically bred to enforce their will by nipping at the heels of cattle or sheep, that's why they call them Heelers, Duh, which makes them one of the least trustworthy dogs to be around. Definitely not a family pet. The few dog bites I've had, have come from Heelers I misjudged.

Grizz

Yup. Hate those buggers more than any other breed. Always trying to sneak in behind you and nip at your ankles and calves. And they try to be so sly about it.

[Okotok]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Yup. Hate those buggers more than any other breed. Always trying to sneak in behind you and nip at your ankles and calves. And they try to be so sly about it.

Was out camping at Red Deer Lake last year. A guy's heeler kept nipping at my Newfie's heels. My Newf finally had enough and spun around and body slammed him. Line was drawn and Heeler knew not to do that anymore.

[223MB]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Heelers are working dogs, specifically bred to enforce their will by nipping at the heels of cattle or sheep, that's why they call them Heelers, Duh, which makes them one of the least trustworthy dogs to be around. Definitely not a family pet. The few dog bites I've had, have come from Heelers I misjudged.

Grizz

I know how heelers are, I’ve had and worked with dozens. My heeler was the one attacked by the pit bull, my “in town” heeler is very calm compared to those on the farm.
With that being said my heeler doesn’t go near playgrounds or get pet by strangers as I understand the breed.

[Twisted Canuck]

https://www.animals24-7.org/2018/01/...-by-pit-bulls/

More 'sensationalism' with a 'narrative'.

https://www.livescience.com/27145-ar...dangerous.html

Some observations about ownership in that article, but it's obviously biased.

People who believe these reports about pit bulls are probably the same people who believe the reports about abuse by priests.....

[Twisted Canuck]

From the link above....

As a result of the overwhelming evidence against pit bulls, home owners and landlords often must pay significantly higher insurance premiums if they have a pit bull or other recognized "bad dog" breed on their property. [Infographic: Dog Bite Incidents]

Fans of pit bulls are quick to assert that a dog's propensity for attack depends in large part on its owner and how it is raised, and there's considerable evidence that owners of pit bulls and other high-risk dogs are themselves high-risk people.

A 2006 study from the Journal of Interpersonal Violence revealed that owners of vicious dogs were significantly more likely to have criminal convictions for aggressive crimes, drugs, alcohol, domestic violence, crimes involving children and firearms.

These findings were confirmed in a 2009 report published in the Journal of Forensic Sciences. The authors of that report wrote, "Vicious dog owners reported significantly more criminal behaviors than other dog owners," and they were ranked "higher in sensation seeking and primary psychopathy."

And a 2011 study, also in the Journal of Forensic Sciences, found that "vicious dog owners reported significantly higher criminal thinking, entitlement, sentimentality and super-optimism tendencies. Vicious dog owners were arrested, engaged in physical fights, and used marijuana significantly more than other dog owners."

Now, don't take this personally, it obviously refers to other pit bull owners, not you, and it is obviously Fake News. Have a laugh at it. I am.

[JohnB]

https://everythinggp.com/article/530...red-dog-attack

[roper1]

Originally Posted by JohnB

https://everythinggp.com/article/530...red-dog-attack

Hundred stitches ~ and still people defend attack breeds?? Go figure.......

[2 Tollers]

Bringing this one back up based on an interesting article this mornings news on an incident in Gatineau

Mandatory micro chip, sterilisation (of the dog) and owner training. Yet they still had 33 attacks by dogs classified as dangerous breeds.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada...gFp5&ocid=iehp

Reading on the law;

Under the Dog Owners' Liability Act in Ontario, a pit bull is defined as a "pit bull terrier, Staffordshire bull terrier, American Staffordshire terrier, American pit bull terrier or a dog that has an appearance and physical characteristics that are substantially similar to any of the aforementioned dogs."

People fighting this law are advocating a law that they quote as being in Calgary which is based around -- "a responsible ownership law, which basically means that you need to be responsible for the behaviour of your pet." This would take the breed out and also the training / registration requirements.

[ruffy71]

The only way to go forward is to make owners accountable. Insurance is a good start. They have people there that can do math, if you own certain breeds, they will know pretty damn quick what the risk is and charge accordingly.

Second, punish the owners with criminal assault/manslaughter on top of being sued in civil court. For all the defenders of large breeds, especially the guarding and fighting breeds, the prospect of going to jail for several years and going bankrupt, will hopefully convince most of them, that owning one of these dogs is not worth it. Let them do a proper calculation, not this "scot free" math we are doing now.

We can do this without mentioning a single specific breed by name.