Another 'It's the owner not the dog' thread

[silver lab]

Originally Posted by 2 Tollers

I agree on training. On the insurance side where does this go? For all dogs or only certain breeds?

I just renewed my house insurance. The insurance company asked if and what type of dog I had..... My house insurance would have been a lot higher if it was a type of dog that was on there list of “bad dogs”

[NSDucknut]

My father in law, bless his heart, walks my lab for me daily after lunch since I'm at work a great deal and only get my boy out at night. They've been set upon twice in the last two weeks. Lucky my dog is strong as all get out and held his own both times, and no one got hurt.

My father in law has MS and poor balance so it's very lucky he didn't have a fall, and the way he tells it my lab seemed way more concerned about keeping the offending dogs off of him.

The first incident was they turned up an alley to head back towards my garage and 3 pitbulls came screaming out of a backyard that was unfenced and backing onto the alley. The owner came in pursuit and swore they'd never done anything like it before. Sure!

The second time the dog was off leash in a garage wide open from the yard and the overhead door. The owner was mowing his lawn in the back and had no idea the dog even ran out. That tussle was worse but no one got injured.

This is in South East Calgary. Little kids everywhere including my own. If that pack mentality kicks in with dogs free to leave their yard at will, imagine what could happen to a 3 year old like mine. I don't understand how some people's mind work.

[2 Tollers]

Originally Posted by 2 Tollers

I agree on training. On the insurance side where does this go? For all dogs or only certain breeds?

Originally Posted by silver lab

I just renewed my house insurance. The insurance company asked if and what type of dog I had..... My house insurance would have been a lot higher if it was a type of dog that was on there list of “bad dogs”

Well that is interesting and a step forward. I wonder how many firms are doing this? If this is an honour system of self reporting I imagine lot's people that would not declare a dog. This would be where the fine and charges need to kick in if there is an issue.

Originally Posted by NSDucknut

The first incident was they turned up an alley to head back towards my garage and 3 pitbulls came screaming out of a backyard that was unfenced and backing onto the alley. The owner came in pursuit and swore they'd never done anything like it before. Sure!

The second time the dog was off leash in a garage wide open from the yard and the overhead door. The owner was mowing his lawn in the back and had no idea the dog even ran out. That tussle was worse but no one got injured.

This is in South East Calgary. Little kids everywhere including my own. If that pack mentality kicks in with dogs free to leave their yard at will, imagine what could happen to a 3 year old like mine. I don't understand how some people's mind work.

Did you call by-law and if so what did they do or say?

[roper1]

Speed limits, seat-belts, drinking & driving.....are all just common sense rules to keep the majority safe without infringing too much on Joe Q individual.

Really simple, exterminate all attack breeds of dogs. I'm completely serious, society can't govern the irresponsible dog owners, time for certain breeds to live only in your Encyclopedia.

[Trochu]

I'm curious, but what in the article suggests it's not the owners behaviour, treatment, or training of the dogs that seriously contributed to their aggressive behaviour?

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by roper1

Speed limits, seat-belts, drinking & driving.....are all just common sense rules to keep the majority safe without infringing too much on Joe Q individual.

Really simple, exterminate all attack breeds of dogs. I'm completely serious, society can't govern the irresponsible dog owners, time for certain breeds to live only in your Encyclopedia.

Nope. Not the answer.

Oh well any who another one of those threads....

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Oh well any who another one of those threads....

One of 'those' threads about people getting injured and killed by dogs, on a regular basis...hardly seems worth talking about.

Why not offer some thoughtful insight...a possible remedy, or even a Charltonesque 'you can have my dogs when you pry them from my cold dead hands'....something.

[alacringa]

In the 4 years I've had him, 3 dogs have bitten mine hard enough to break the skin. Two of them were pitbull types. One of the owners received a fine for owning a dog that caused damage to another animal. While I'd like to see then banned, I recognize it as a losing battle, as they are excessively popular among the DB crowd, who seem to be in the ascendancy in our province.

That said, owners are just that - owners. They have a responsibility to, and for, their pet. If an owner has no control over their dog, they need to keep it on a leash. Too many people think their dog is trained because it will do tricks in the kitchen. My dog is actually trained. One blast on his whistle, and he'll sit, even if there are interesting smells or he's playing with other dogs. A trill on his whistle and he comes. On the extremely rare occasion that he doesn't, then I hit one button on the transmitter, and his collar vibrates. Guaranteed he comes right to my side.

People have no sense of responsibility. They have no sense of what is involved in owning and caring for a dog properly. Assault might not be the right charge, but criminal negligence causing bodily harm might be.

[ChrisGrohms]

Originally Posted by CritterCommander

Larger more agressive breeds shouldn't be confined to urban environments penned up or chained up in a backyard or in the hands of some random person who fell in love at the rescue kennel period. Keep em away from trouble and on the farm or put them to work in security or what ever they're bred for and lots of these situations could be avoided.

True to some extent. Except that last week I drove up to my barn and 2 pit bulls were hanging out where my kids normally play when I’m doing chores. I got off my gator and walked over to them and told them to git and they charged me. I managed to get on my gator and tried to run one over. Then went to the barn for a gun but by the time I had it loaded and found them again they were just crossing the property line.
This is not the first time I’ve been charged by a pit bull.
These dogs have no business being owned by anyone other than Mexican cartels.

[Sledin]

[/QUOTE]This is where my issue with larger breed dogs comes to play as well, at least if the negligent owner gets a shih-tzu, it's unlikely to do much more than bite some ankles, however when it's a large breed dog and a negligent owner, people get seriously hurt.[/QUOTE]


When I took my Boxer to dog classes it was the ****-zoo's who were out of control, they were trying to pick fights.
My Boxer was just wanting to clarify the peaking order. Hard to beat her pedigree.


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[ctd]

I have two friends who own 3 pitbulls between them. Those three dog are the friendliest dogs I have ever seen.
They will protect their owners agaisnt bears and cougars. Yet roll over for belly rubs faster then any other dog. They like to swim in the ocean and run in the woods.

(I use to have a black lab along with a husky st bernard cross. Two friendly dogs sort of). My black lab would attack skateboarders all day long. She was dog napped by one when she was a puppy.
My husky/bernard would rip you to peices if you broke into my house or smashed a window to drag her sunray heat absorbing butt out of the van while i was in shopping. ( her and the lab would fight over who got to lay on the dash in the hot sun).they both would refuse to leave the van when you got home. Both perferring to sit in the van with the doors closed baking in the sun light.

Those viscous dogs are a rusult of bad training and bad upbringing. Nothing more then that.

[32-40win]

Whilst there is a lot to be said for owners creating problems, sometimes the dog is just wired wrong to start with. Know a couple of cases of that occurring, it is a shame, but it happens, wasn't the owner's fault, it was just the way the dog was wired, one was a lab, one was a shepherd, the lab got dealt with, the shepherd didn't. Trouble is, very often the owner is not willing to deal with it and write it off to a bad experience, even though they know the dog has issues that are not going to be cured.

[doorout]

It is simple, Send all Pit bulls to the pit.

[Twisted Canuck]

Different dog breeds were specifically bred to have certain traits and characteristics. Genetic predisposition is actually a real thing. There is a reason that a few breeds account for the most horrific maulings. Other breeds may bite more often, statistics can be played with to prove whatever a person would like to believe, but when it comes to humans getting ripped up and / or killed by dogs, there are certain breeds that come up over and over and over. If you had a pet king cobra you wouldn't be surprised if it struck and killed, because that's what they do. It's their nature.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

One of 'those' threads about people getting injured and killed by dogs, on a regular basis...hardly seems worth talking about.

Why not offer some thoughtful insight...a possible remedy, or even a Charltonesque 'you can have my dogs when you pry them from my cold dead hands'....something.

Ok, I'll bite

Pets have owners, owners take full responsibility.
The same with children, they have parents, parents responsibility....but as with children and pets there seems to be no one accountable/responsible in many cases so it sits on the decision makers to remedy the inability of the peasants to makes sound minded decisions.....and then the decision makers step in and it's a complete uprising.....peoplekind

There bit off a chunk.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by 32-40win

Whilst there is a lot to be said for owners creating problems, sometimes the dog is just wired wrong to start with. Know a couple of cases of that occurring, it is a shame, but it happens, wasn't the owner's fault, it was just the way the dog was wired, one was a lab, one was a shepherd, the lab got dealt with, the shepherd didn't. Trouble is, very often the owner is not willing to deal with it and write it off to a bad experience, even though they know the dog has issues that are not going to be cured.

Nope, if you as a responsible pet owner has a dog wired wrong and you will know it as I had one, put it down before something happens.....seen many so called breads that are killers in some people's eyes wired right, responsible pet owners all is well....dam it twisted you got me on my second cup of coffee....got to get outside.

[Twisted Canuck]

Sorry 58thecat, but thanks for responding anyway. I don't know the solution, I believe the owners need to be responsible and accountable....but as I mentioned, when it's a member of YOUR family that is hauled down and viciously mauled to death, the owner being 'accountable' is pretty damn hollow.

I do know that my schnauzer has a high 'prey instinct', and will trash any mouse (or bird, rat) it could find, and it's not because I taught him that, or because I'm a good or bad owner. It's what he is. And some breeds, no matter how cuddly and loving the claim is made, have other traits. And they have the strength and power to be deadly when those traits come into play. Which is why it is in the news over and over and over. And some family pays.

[Rastus]

I have a rescue dog from a dog fighting kennel. Have had her for 12 years, she is 14 now, killed the champion in less than 10 seconds, they were going to pit her against the reigning champion and then they got busted. She is a Shepherd, Black Lab, and Wolf mix, weighs in at 70lbs and mean. Keep her on a leash AT ALL TIMES or she is allowed in the fenced in yard on her own. Loves human's and kids, but HATES other dogs with a passion. I guess the point I am trying to make is, although she hates other dogs I keep her on a lease and, DO NOT LET HER OFF IT, when I walk her I always check for other dogs, and if I see one I hold her against a fence or give them the right of way, God how I have stood there. Does that make me a responsible owner, I don't know, but I love her, so what am I to do.

[dgl1948]

Originally Posted by 2 Tollers

Well that is interesting and a step forward. I wonder how many firms are doing this? If this is an honour system of self reporting I imagine lot's people that would not declare a dog. This would be where the fine and charges need to kick in if there is an issue.




Did you call by-law and if so what did they do or say?

Failing to declare gives the insurance company an excuse to void any coverage you had.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Rastus

I have a rescue dog from a dog fighting kennel. Have had her for 12 years, she is 14 now, killed the champion in less than 10 seconds, they were going to pit her against the reigning champion and then they got busted. She is a Shepherd, Black Lab, and Wolf mix, weighs in at 70lbs and mean. Keep her on a leash AT ALL TIMES or she is allowed in the fenced in yard on her own. Loves human's and kids, but HATES other dogs with a passion. I guess the point I am trying to make is, although she hates other dogs I keep her on a lease and, DO NOT LET HER OFF IT, when I walk her I always check for other dogs, and if I see one I hold her against a fence or give them the right of way, God how I have stood there. Does that make me a responsible owner, I don't know, but I love her, so what am I to do.

You are a responsible dog owner, your pup is lucky, you are lucky to enjoy each other's company, good on you.

[cody j]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Different dog breeds were specifically bred to have certain traits and characteristics. Genetic predisposition is actually a real thing. There is a reason that a few breeds account for the most horrific maulings. Other breeds may bite more often, statistics can be played with to prove whatever a person would like to believe, but when it comes to humans getting ripped up and / or killed by dogs, there are certain breeds that come up over and over and over. If you had a pet king cobra you wouldn't be surprised if it struck and killed, because that's what they do. It's their nature.

I agree, when it comes to cattle dogs or hunting dogs people talk about how their behaviour is instinctive and bred into them. With some other breeds when they attack someone people say it not the dogs fault it's the owner. Different types of dogs have been bred for specific traits

[4K3OGH]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

So...... we take a course and get license for car and gun.

Course and license for dog makes a lot of sense really.

No?

I disagree, would you want the government telling you how to raise your kids? There's plenty of ways to train a dog, and unfortunately with the Snowflakes running our country there would be more and more dog attacks because heaven forbid you discipline your animal!

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by cody j

I agree, when it comes to cattle dogs or hunting dogs people talk about how their behaviour is instinctive and bred into them. With some other breeds when they attack someone people say it not the dogs fault it's the owner. Different types of dogs have been bred for specific traits

And you as the owner need to identify these traits and adjust accordingly. All part of being a responsible pet owner.
Unfortunately too many lazy pet owners out there.

[Big Grey Wolf]

A few years back saw numbers on dog attacks for each breed in Calgary. Although the pits were in minority of numbers they were at the top for dog attacks. We use to have muzzles, special insurance on pit bulls in Edmonton which was dropped a few years back, what happened to common sense!!

[C.Noble]

It comes down to pet ownership. If you want to look at breed specific traits, then look into the history of the pitbull. Raised for bear and bull baiting, then ratting and dog fighting. The dogs that showed aggressiveness towards people were put down. A dog was to be able to fight another dog, then go home and be a family dog. That being said, Up until this Feb when we got a frenchie , the only breed in my house for half my life were pits. I have had blue nose and red nose dogs. Registered dogs and rescue dogs. I have had 1 dog that wasn't a fan of 2 white boxers. We have had 6 families buy pits after spending time around our dogs. I currently have a 3 year old female that came from a breeding program that saw her spending roughly 80% of her life kennelled, she showed food aggression to my frenchie for about 10 seconds. A very quick correction has put a complete end to that. I have said before when this comes up, anyone on AO ispre than welcome to come for a visit and see the behaviours these dogs exhibit. Warning, you may have 90 pounds on your lap in a hurry. Not a fan of being called a DB for choosing a very loyal and family friendly breed of dog for my kids to have grown up with

[bessiedog]

Originally Posted by 4K3OGH

I disagree, would you want the government telling you how to raise your kids? There's plenty of ways to train a dog, and unfortunately with the Snowflakes running our country there would be more and more dog attacks because heaven forbid you discipline your animal!

It’s called schooling...... even homeschooling..... lots of socialization there bud.

Just in case you weren’t aware..

[Ken07AOVette]

I have petted C Nobles very nice well behaved pit. With my left hand. He maybe did not notice it was my left hand only, but the reason is my knife is always in my right pocket and harder to get out with my left hand.
I have never been attacked by a pit but have seen enough damage and death to know that they are an unpredictable breed to the point that they are predictable and should not be in society.
If there were pocket shotguns we could legally carry in Alberta I would not be so against the breed. Maybe. Look at that, I am slowly leaning toward CC. Can you believe it?
I always wonder how the parents of the babies killed by their own pitbulls ever get past that day? Or their dog killing another person's baby or loved one.
It happens there is absolutely no denying it.
A pitbull owner may say after looking at the following picture 'only 254 deaths caused by pits, that's nothing compared to.......' but the truth is 254 direct families were devastated and how many times that destroyed?

This link is from a Trial Lawyer firm, not wiki by the way.

https://www.friedlrichardson.com/dog-attacks-by-breed/

[Jack fish hunter]

Originally Posted by RancheroMan

Would it be out of line to charge owners of dogs that have attacked humans with aggravated assault?

To a point yes.

[C.Noble]

Thank you Ken. I did notice your left hand, didn't think much of it because you are much scarier than my dogs are. Lol. There is something to look at with those charts and statistics though, how many of the "pitbulls" are true pits? Any dog with a block head and a lot of muscle is called a "pitbull" regardless of what it has in it. Even the stories tagged in the first post had the dog being different colours and things like that. The attacks not too long ago in Montreal were proved with genetic testing not to be pitbull, but everyone still jumped on the bandwagon to ban them again.

[Ken07AOVette]

Good point. I can not guarantee I know the breed and have been wrong many times even with boxers.
I always felt bad about that day, your tiny kidlets running around fearless while I am nervous of a dog.
I hate that this is what has become of me and people after seeing reading and hearing what we do, but humans sometimes are prejudiced and very often for the right reasons.
I would not be sad at all if the breed ceased existence completely after all the nice ones alive right now died of old age and were all sterilized.