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12-25-2017, 01:02 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Leader SK
Posts: 288
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Why isnt there a charge for this? No pal trying to buy restricted
So I just found out something that ****ed me off, i talked to the rcmp after a someone tried too buy a handgun off me with no PAL.
They told me there is nothing to charge them with for wanting to buy it but that they would be charged if i sold it to them but of course i would be charged too for selling it to them.
I think there should be some kind of charge that can be laid against them for this kind of crap.
They charge for solicitation, they charge dealers/buyers...why not illegally attempting to buy a firearm with no PAL?
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nothing like taking 5 months off just to do some fishing, shooting and hunting
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12-25-2017, 01:42 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Morinville
Posts: 2,608
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Same reason there would be no charge for trying to buy a vehicle (which kill more people in Canada in a week than guns kill in a year) without a valid drivers licence.
No crime has been committed, buyer could always argue that he had no idea one needed a licence to buy a gun and he would win in court.
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12-25-2017, 03:54 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Leader SK
Posts: 288
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.....
A vehicle is a little different and come to think of it i have never shown my divers when buying a vehical in a private sale
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nothing like taking 5 months off just to do some fishing, shooting and hunting
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12-25-2017, 04:06 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 2,208
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In order to lay a charge, they (with your evidence) would have to be able to prove "INTENT"...
Very difficult to do, unless you recorded the conversation. Even then, it would be a stretch...
Merry Christmas to all !!!
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12-25-2017, 04:28 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Leader SK
Posts: 288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J0HN_R1
In order to lay a charge, they (with your evidence) would have to be able to prove "INTENT"...
Very difficult to do, unless you recorded the conversation. Even then, it would be a stretch...
Merry Christmas to all !!!
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I have the text, they out right say they want to buy and they dont have a pal
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nothing like taking 5 months off just to do some fishing, shooting and hunting
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12-25-2017, 05:00 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinningchain1
I have the text, they out right say they want to buy and they dont have a pal
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The rcmp may not lay a charge from it, but it might put him on their radar for other investigations.
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12-25-2017, 05:22 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinningchain1
A vehicle is a little different and come to think of it i have never shown my divers when buying a vehical in a private sale
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Yes, a vehicle is a lot more dangerous.
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12-25-2017, 05:45 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 282
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Humor
Just a little humor but you must be a really bad driver if you are showing your divers license when buying a vehicle do you end up in the water a lot, now I kinda agree the intent is clearly there to break the law but maybe he/she honestly didn’t know the law however if it is clear a individual wishes to break the law they usually will and do only a matter of time, Merry Christmas and blame it on ducking autocorrect... duck ugh just kidding lol
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12-25-2017, 06:48 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,326
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Would more laws keep us safer?
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12-25-2017, 07:03 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newview01
Would more laws keep us safer?
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Keeps us safer from stupid so that is why laws are implemented.
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Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
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12-25-2017, 07:09 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 58thecat
Keeps us safer from stupid so that is why laws are implemented.
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It is already illegal to possess a restricted firearm without a license. What additional laws do we need in this case?
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12-25-2017, 07:32 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newview01
It is already illegal to possess a restricted firearm without a license. What additional laws do we need in this case?
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Not sure but I tell ya if some hammerheads attempt to beat the system/work a grey area as in all cases more laws/regs will be implemented.
In the OP case really straight forward, show me your RPAL, if not it a no sale, done!
The buyer can ask to buy anything, you as the stellar better have it all together, if it's a situation where the law showed up after the transaction then the fella with the restricted weapon/the sellar included are in hot water...or you can always say you are hard done by and on meds, don't remember etc and some scumbag lawyer will get you off the charges.
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Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
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12-25-2017, 07:35 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Claresholm, Ab
Posts: 4,022
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You sure it wasn't the cops themselves checking you out on a restricted sale?
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12-25-2017, 07:37 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,097
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I know of a situation where a friend was going through a divorce, and he came home to find his safe empty, and his firearms missing. He had several restricted firearms that were registered in his name in the safe. His wife had apparently taken the firearms and she admitted to him that she had sold them all. He filed a report with the RCMP, and they refused to file charges against the wife insisting that it was a civil manner, not a criminal matter, even though she sold the restricted firearms illegally, and did not even know who she sold them to, and the CFC and RCMP did not know who now had possession of the restricted firearms.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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12-25-2017, 10:41 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,144
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That's a criminal code offence. You can't transfer the guns without transferring the registration first. As for the OP why worry you can't even initiate a sale without his valid PAL #
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Former Ford Fan
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12-25-2017, 11:03 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 2,208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
I know of a situation where a friend was going through a divorce, and he came home to find his safe empty, and his firearms missing. He had several restricted firearms that were registered in his name in the safe. His wife had apparently taken the firearms and she admitted to him that she had sold them all. He filed a report with the RCMP, and they refused to file charges against the wife insisting that it was a civil manner, not a criminal matter, even though she sold the restricted firearms illegally, and did not even know who she sold them to, and the CFC and RCMP did not know who now had possession of the restricted firearms.
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12-25-2017, 11:47 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinningchain1
I have the text, they out right say they want to buy and they dont have a pal
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It comes down to the latest they hadn't yet broken a law.
The PAL is just that, required for possision which hadnt yet to take place.
There was likely not other evidence of other illegal intent involved with the wanting to buy the gun.
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12-25-2017, 12:08 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airbornedeerhunter
Same reason there would be no charge for trying to buy a vehicle....
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Except that it isn't the same at all. You do not require a license to legally own or possess a vehicle.
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12-25-2017, 12:20 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,044
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IMO, there's no charge because there's would be no prosecutor willing to take on the case of charging a guy who attempted to buy a gun without a license.
I agree that buying a vehicle without d/l is absolutely different thing. If i was to compare it to anything - it would be to a guy who says "duck it, I'm gonna cross the street on the red light", and someone would try to write him a ticket for jaywalking. Or, if you were selling your wife's old iPhone on Kijiji, do you ask everyone who calls if they are legally allowed to own the phone? Because, you know, some people have court imposed conditions not to own any communication device.
Another point - dear gun owners (op in particular) - do you want more control from the govt where people would be getting charged for thoughts and desires? It's not your job to police others, so myob. Good job doing due diligence checking if there guy had PAL, but drop it there. Don't turn into one of the hysterical liberals screaming "why doesn't govt controlling everything?!?!?!".
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12-25-2017, 12:22 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: WMU 303
Posts: 8,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airbornedeerhunter
Same reason there would be no charge for trying to buy a vehicle (which kill more people in Canada in a week than guns kill in a year) without a valid drivers licence.
No crime has been committed, buyer could always argue that he had no idea one needed a licence to buy a gun and he would win in court.
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I don't want to get picky but you do not need a DL to purchase an automobile nor does an automobile need to be registered. That analogy gets used all the time by proponents of the gun registry who say "you need to register your car" (NO YOU DON'T).
A better analogy.............a person goes to Budget car rental and cannot produce a DL.................rental denied.
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12-25-2017, 02:12 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinningchain1
So I just found out something that ****ed me off, i talked to the rcmp after a someone tried too buy a handgun off me with no PAL.
They told me there is nothing to charge them with for wanting to buy it but that they would be charged if i sold it to them but of course i would be charged too for selling it to them.
I think there should be some kind of charge that can be laid against them for this kind of crap.
They charge for solicitation, they charge dealers/buyers...why not illegally attempting to buy a firearm with no PAL?
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It's a bit like a minor trying to buy cigarettes i imagine..
Does a under aged minor get charged for trying? no..
Does the 7/11 risk getting charged? Yup.
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12-25-2017, 04:09 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle Rat
It comes down to the latest they hadn't yet broken a law.
The PAL is just that, required for possision which hadnt yet to take place.
There was likely not other evidence of other illegal intent involved with the wanting to buy the gun.
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Actually it is a possession, ACQUISITION license.
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12-25-2017, 06:12 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 368
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No crime was committed.
Therefore, no charge.
People try all sorts of things, and it is up to you whether or not you sell to him.
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12-25-2017, 06:41 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Beaverlodge
Posts: 1,859
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Personally I’d be wondering if it wasn’t a sting operation, trying to get you to sell with the knowledge of no pal
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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12-25-2017, 07:05 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blgoodbrand1
Personally I’d be wondering if it wasn’t a sting operation, trying to get you to sell with the knowledge of no pal
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Could ve. You never know.
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12-26-2017, 10:03 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,261
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Do not think the CFO's have time to do sting operations. It takes 3 months for them to process a PAL or ATC so they have major backlog to work through,no time for sting games.
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12-26-2017, 10:31 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,405
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Forward the info to the police if he said he wants to buy with no license.
Maybe thet will do a sting. Sell the guy a gun and bust him a minute later for no registration or pal.
I have a hard time believin the wife could sell the restricted firearms.... that doesn't make any sense.
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12-26-2017, 10:35 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry D
Forward the info to the police if he said he wants to buy with no license.
Maybe thet will do a sting. Sell the guy a gun and bust him a minute later for no registration or pal.
I have a hard time believin the wife could sell the restricted firearms.... that doesn't make any sense.
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The PAL is the law I guess, but I still think it is a stupid one, but you want to try and trick someone so you can charge them with a stupid law?
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12-26-2017, 10:59 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinningchain1
So I just found out something that ****ed me off, i talked to the rcmp after a someone tried too buy a handgun off me with no PAL.
They told me there is nothing to charge them with for wanting to buy it but that they would be charged if i sold it to them but of course i would be charged too for selling it to them.
I think there should be some kind of charge that can be laid against them for this kind of crap.
They charge for solicitation, they charge dealers/buyers...why not illegally attempting to buy a firearm with no PAL?
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maybe someone was testing you
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12-26-2017, 12:13 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobalong
The PAL is the law I guess, but I still think it is a stupid one, but you want to try and trick someone so you can charge them with a stupid law?
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I agree. It's very stupid.
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