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  #31  
Old 05-30-2015, 01:40 PM
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Thanks. Lots of new information for a noob like myself.
From a physics standpoint, the 1200 lbs pre-stretch seems like it would aid in stabilizing. If you stretch slightly over 300 to stabilize, wouldn't stretching beyond that sort of "max out" the creep before it's installed on a bow where it won't see forces strong enough creep any further?
I guess I'll know when I shoot my new wbs how it creeps. I noticed enough stretching in my factory strings from Bowtech (octane?) that after about 700 shots my 73.8 lbs shifted down to 69 or so and accuracy went crazy out.
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  #32  
Old 05-30-2015, 08:17 PM
HoytAlpha35 HoytAlpha35 is offline
 
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Default New Bow Strings

In theory yes going beyond 300 will help stabilize, but to point. Something I need to get answer on is at what tension the material starts to breakdown and then the actual breaking strengths.

A piece of string material will have breaking point of around 75 lbs give or take depending on material. So in a bundle of 24 strands which is typical of most materials means a 1800 lbs to break the full bundle. Factor in the bends of the loops are a weak point of the string that number could be reduced. So from the 300# recommend max to the break strength there's probably an ideal number under 500 and probably closer to 400 that would be a good safe number of extra tension.

Last edited by HoytAlpha35; 05-30-2015 at 08:23 PM.
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  #33  
Old 05-30-2015, 10:53 PM
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Ya, good points. You certainly wouldn't want it to fatigue the materials like bending a plastic toothpick. I guess it would be interesting to take old strings that are being replaced and test the whole thing to breaking point. Then individual strands too.
I really don't think 500 is going to put the material through much of a test if 1800 is the breaking point. That would be like a tow strap being weaker after using it, which I don't think would be the case. I would like to assume that if a company is stretching strings under that much force, they have a good idea of how far away from breakage they are and what the implications are. I would think if there were problems with it we would hear endless stories (or even 1 story) of wbs failures.
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  #34  
Old 06-01-2015, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoytAlpha35 View Post
Yeah I can get carried away on this topic. lol. My apologies. It such a crucial aspect. We're talk 1/16" or less on the length of a string or cable than can effect the shot. You get into certain temperature conditions and it'll effect the performance and point if impact. To me the less that is needed to do to the material to make it stable and creep free means it more stable to begin with and is a better choice.

This is from DSM on creep. Different application but result is the same. Dyneema Or UHMPE Ultra High Molecular Polyethylene creeps by nature. It's just part of its chemical makeup. 8190, 8125 fall into this category. BCY even states that 8190 had the lowest creep ever for a Dyneema. Which means it still creeps...
http://www.dsm.com/products/dyneema/...ore/creep.html

Vectran is the stabilizing material in 452X, trophy, and X. Blends are 66% sk75 Dyneema , 33% Vectran. For X it's. 83% sk90 Dyneema and 17% Vectran. The experts that make this stuff for a living determine that's what's needed to be stable.

http://www.vectranfiber.com/ has lots of information.

With a straight Dyneema IMO extra procedures and possibly heat of some sort (which is so bad for dyneema) are necessary to get some stability. Those same procedures with a Vectran will breakdown the material and reduce it's long term stability.

Now to throw this all for a Loop Brownell has developed procedures in the construction of there straight Dyneema materials to get awesome stability, it impressive.

I'm not a hoyt guy by an means just a name from when I started bowhunying. Had an Alphamax 35 in '09, they went to a roller guard and they went buy buy, plus have you seen the prices? There atrocious hard to believe that much mark-up from the US. still have that bow thought. Shot prime, Mathews and since and house is full of pse right now. I could do some serious plugging for them

Fuse of past built with a sk75 base weren't good. After an elk hunt my bow was so out of time it required a complete go over. And those were built with 700lbs of pre-stretch as they promoted. Was the material to blame or the build? I'm saying the string material. The latest ones built with BCY X are solid.
And My apologies also for the tone...I am By all means no expert or pro on building bow strings...however being a bowhunter and installing strings for bowhunters I do know what works with the least stretch [settlement] issues of failures... WBS hands down have had the least issues of all stock bow stings combined...

I appreciate your knowledge and opinion...not being a Pro string builder I do not know all the technology or tolerance specs...

But I invite you to talk to ALLAN at WBS Phone: 306-628-3992
Allan will more than happy to discuss string building technology with you...he is pleasent and very knowledgeable to talk too...you wont regret it!!!

Neil
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  #35  
Old 06-01-2015, 09:55 AM
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i'm on the fence on wbs or 60x custom I put a 60x on my Mathews but don't shoot it much but my rpm I have shot lots and this factory one is junk... 60x custom wont put speed weights on but wbs will umm
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  #36  
Old 06-01-2015, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm360 View Post
i'm on the fence on wbs or 60x custom I put a 60x on my Mathews but don't shoot it much but my rpm I have shot lots and this factory one is junk... 60x custom wont put speed weights on but wbs will umm
Due to the litigious society in the US, 60X and many other custom string builders will not install speed nocks.

A custom string builder lost a million dollar lawsuit when a customer dry fired a bow....dislodged a speed nock that then blinded him in one eye....liability is the issue. You can install speed nocks based on your old factory string on your own.

LC
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  #37  
Old 06-01-2015, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Due to the litigious society in the US, 60X and many other custom string builders will not install speed nocks.

A custom string builder lost a million dollar lawsuit when a customer dry fired a bow....dislodged a speed nock that then blinded him in one eye....liability is the issue. You can install speed nocks based on your old factory string on your own.

LC
Crazy what the states award their suiers...

Most companies have moved from the press/clamp on C type and now use the "Grub" style that has to be fed on string in bow press...

Neil
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  #38  
Old 06-01-2015, 11:50 PM
HoytAlpha35 HoytAlpha35 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm360 View Post
i'm on the fence on wbs or 60x custom I put a 60x on my Mathews but don't shoot it much but my rpm I have shot lots and this factory one is junk... 60x custom wont put speed weights on but wbs will umm

60x will sell the nocks and you can install them yourself.

Go with the slide on 'grub'. Clean looking, better colour matching, good vibration dampening, good performance.

The brass nocks aren't so much an issue when installing. The part that needs special care is when you heat the shrink tube. Dyneema is sensitive to heat and servings are made with the same type of material.

If your going for max speed then yes brass nocks, a chrono and lots of time to get the most performance.
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  #39  
Old 06-02-2015, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoytalpha35 View Post
60x will sell the nocks and you can install them yourself.

Go with the slide on 'grub'. Clean looking, better colour matching, good vibration dampening, good performance.

The brass nocks aren't so much an issue when installing. The part that needs special care is when you heat the shrink tube. Dyneema is sensitive to heat and servings are made with the same type of material.

If your going for max speed then yes brass nocks, a chrono and lots of time to get the most performance.
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  #40  
Old 06-02-2015, 10:50 AM
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I don't think I will go with the brass ones then just to be on the safe side thanks
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  #41  
Old 06-02-2015, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgard View Post
Mike Carters bow strings aka Crackers over @ archerytalk are excellent!
I have Crackers strings on my Athens as this is a special arrangement Athens has for their Factory Staff with Mike and they are great!

Unless you send your bow into Carters Archery they no longer sell the strings direct it needs to be sent in and "Crackerized" which is a process that include strings as well as a custom tunning.
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  #42  
Old 06-03-2015, 08:58 PM
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When it comes time for a new string my APA M7 and I will be making a trip to see Neil. It will get a set of Worlds Best or 60x with some flo green in them.
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  #43  
Old 06-06-2015, 10:27 PM
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I replaced my strings before I needed to. Figured I would just go ahead with new wbs strings because I was getting a tune. I'm very impressed with Neil and the work he did. Very thorough and he converted me to the no peep cult following haha. I was shooting pretty decent within about 5 groups of 3 shots. I was surprised how easy the adjustment to shooting without a peep was. I'm looking forward to really getting dialed in now that I know my bow is.
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  #44  
Old 06-08-2015, 06:54 PM
mxz1997 mxz1997 is offline
 
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X however many on Neil and Worlds Best Strings. Very happy with his work and my WBS strings.
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  #45  
Old 06-23-2015, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_W View Post
I have Crackers strings on my Athens as this is a special arrangement Athens has for their Factory Staff with Mike and they are great!

Unless you send your bow into Carters Archery they no longer sell the strings direct it needs to be sent in and "Crackerized" which is a process that include strings as well as a custom tunning.
Had one of my bows "Crackerized"...





Neil
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  #46  
Old 06-23-2015, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow View Post
Had one of my bows "Crackerized"...





Neil
Looks like a Matthews
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  #47  
Old 06-24-2015, 09:15 AM
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Looks like a Matthews
They Had their time...during their "Catch Us if you can" years... prompted most other bow manufacturers to do just that!!!

lol

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  #48  
Old 06-27-2015, 11:27 PM
Deer_Hunter Deer_Hunter is offline
 
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Default vapor trail strings

I am shooting vapor trails

http://www.vaportrailarchery.com/

For whatever it's worth - first time with them but so far so good!
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  #49  
Old 06-27-2015, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by FallAirFever View Post
Looks like a Matthews
Those are crackers not eggos!

LC
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