How bad does it have to get before Albertans decide separation is the best option?

[Pekan]

The feds have been using AB as a cash machine for years and in my opinion, they really don't care too much about us. How many laws and taxes that are against AB's best interests will it take for Albertans to decide separation is the way to go?
Or will this go on like this forever?

It seems to me that the Federal government will never reflect the values of most Albertans, so what's the point of staying in confederation?

[dmcbride]

If Trudeau wins the next election I am seriously considering moving to another country.

[Cement Bench]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

so many thoughts

so little time

wanted to separate since turd-0000o00 one

[huntinstuff]

It's already way past being bad as far as I see it

Canadians are apathetic. That's why it's bad. Government can only do what citizens allow. and Canadians allow it.

The demographic has changed. And it is by design.

Things ARE bad. The demographic HAS changed. We ARE living in a much dufferent Canada.....it has already haopened....on our watch.....

[Sooner]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

It's already way past being bad as far as I see it

Canadians are apathetic. That's why it's bad. Government can only do what citizens allow. and Canadians allow it.

The demographic has changed. And it is by design.

Things ARE bad. The demographic HAS changed. We ARE living in a much dufferent Canada.....it has already haopened....on our watch.....

How sad that you are 100 % correct. We watched the Libs and the lefties change Canada right under our noses.

Watching all these anti Israel protests and not one banner says down with Hamas. Our own gov split on who to support, flip flopping along the issue, picking both sides when it is convenient to them. We are a small version of the United Kingdom now where immigration issues are showing their ugly side.

[Sundancefisher]

The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.

That all said…

Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.

We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.

We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.

Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.

Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.

We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.

The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.

We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.

Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.

[Big Grey Wolf]

I like Sundance, he does not dream about some utopia that does not exist.

[Grizzly Adams1]

We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.


Strange to me we've never pushed for this before. That Not Withstanding clause in the constitution is not just there for Quebec to thumb their noses at us.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.

That all said…

Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.

We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.

We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.

Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.

Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.

We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.

The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.

We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.

Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.

Meh, very easy solution to all of these above- we just declare a war on US and then surrender right away, lol! Problem solved!

[Dewey Cox]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.

That all said…

Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.

We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.

We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.

Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.

Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.

We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.

The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.

We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.

Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.

All those arguments against are bargaining chips in our favour.
Canada doesn't want to give up the national parks?
Sure, keep them.
Want to have continued access to them? Well now you have to give us access to the ports on the coast.
Same with the reserves.
We sure don't want that burden, but if they want to join us as equals they are welcome. Anyone who doesn't is free to live on a Canadian reserve that's an island in the middle of our new country. And we can bargin for access to them.
And if you think switching away from bilingualism will do anything but save us money, you're dreaming.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.

That all said…

Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.

We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.

We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.

Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.

Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.

We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.

The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.

We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.

Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.

Premier Smith has been doing a good job on trying to get more autonomy like Quebec

[Pekan]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.

That all said…

Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.

We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.

We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.

Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.

Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.

We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.

The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.

We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.

Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.

I would expect that back when the US declared independence from Britian, many Americans brought up similar points that you're bringing up. Look how that turned out.

My point is circumstances change, just because things seem a certain way, doesn't mean they will stay that way forever.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.

That all said…

Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.

We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.

We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.

Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.

Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.

We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.

The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.

We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.

Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.

Don’t forget the huge decline in population making Alberta even less significant. I suspect at least 40% of the population would migrate out leaving a housing surplus and a serious downturn to our economy.

This happened when Quebec actually was serious about separating, industry and jobs left in droves . That is why they softened their stance to what it is now. Just making demands backed up by veiled threats they have no intention of caring out , but it gets them what they want .

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.

That all said…

Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.

We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.

We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.

Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.

Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.

We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.

The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.

We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.

Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.

This makes sense

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.

That all said…

Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.

We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.

We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.

Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.

Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.

We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.

The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.

We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.

Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.

I disagree I think the USA would scoop us up in a heart beat! Pipe lines from Alberta, Alaska to the gulf states. Several ocean ports if Manitoba and northern BC join in and MOST importantly FRESH water for sates like California etc.

[Moe]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.

That all said…

Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.

We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.

We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.

Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.

Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.

We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.

The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.

We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.

Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.

Bingo!
Plus we would have to start up some type of trade agreements with the rest of Canada and the U.S. with little leverage. They would bend us over a barrel.
And how do you get out oil to tidewater? B.C. would make life difficult there etc.
And a lot of people who identify as Canadian first would flee and drive down house prices etc.
Trust me, separation is the best way to turn Alberta into a have not state.

[Sundog57]

[QUOTE=dmcbride;4714527]If Trudeau wins the next election I am seriously considering moving to another country.[/QUOTE

If we get another sparkle socks government, you may not have to... The population of Alberta may well move to another country without going anywhere.
Be careful what you wish for though... That would be followed by a massive wave of immigration from the rest of Canada - just remember more than half of the voters didn't vote to support the Clown Prince

[Sooner]

I have been voting since I was 18 and am 57 now. Only seen a few Conservative governments rule the land in that time. What I have seen election after election is how more than not, the east makes up my mind long before I cast a vote.

If PP & crew can't knock that turd and his crooks out and soundly, after everything they have done this time around, any future federal votes will be protest votes to either a AB bloc party or separation party. If my vote don't matter anyway, why bother supporting the big blue one.

I have had more than enough of the east/libs sticking it to the west.

[PartTimeHunter]

Originally Posted by Sooner

I have been voting since I was 18 and am 57 now. Only seen a few Conservative governments rule the land in that time. What I have seen election after election is how more than not, the east makes up my mind long before I cast a vote.

If PP & crew can't knock that turd and his crooks out and soundly, after everything they have done this time around, any future federal votes will be protest votes to either a AB bloc party or separation party. If my vote don't matter anyway, why bother supporting the big blue one.

I have had more than enough of the east/libs sticking it to the west.

Few years older but the same story. Last chance for my vote as a conservative. Have never voted for any other than a conservative party

[trailraat]

In my mind the only way it work is if Northern BC, Saskatchewan, and Alberta went together - not going to happen unfortunately.

The best option is Northern Separation - just start a new country at the 50th parallel. Keep all the resources and eliminate the leeches. Have a look at the map and you will see what I mean.